The Greatest Tank Ever (Full Version)

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V22 Osprey -> The Greatest Tank Ever (4/8/2008 11:32:43 PM)

Here's the Hall of Fame of Tanks.

Post Your vote in this thread.

My vote:M1A1 abrams

[:D]



Goblin -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/9/2008 12:15:01 AM)

In comparison to other tanks of the same time period? WW2...I would have to go with the T34. Pretty revolutionary design, easy to maintain and produce, excellent reliability, great armor, and easy to operate.

Contemporary... Probably the M1A1, though the Challenger is a very close second.

Pure badass on the battlefield, ignoring production, reliability, etc - the Tiger.





For the Hall of Fame thing - that has to be earned - we'll see... [;)]


Goblin



PimpYourAFV -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/9/2008 3:45:15 AM)

I like the upgraded Sherman.  Shermans were easy to make (highest number of any tank ever built), look nice and are good all-round tanks.  The panzer III fully upgraded was a very nice tank too and did good work in all theatres.



Goblin -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/9/2008 3:59:40 AM)

According to Wiki, and other sites, the M4 and its variants were produced to just above 50,000 units total (all time). The T-34 had over 57,000 units produced before 1945, and over 84,000 built total (all time).


Goblin



Arctic Blast -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/9/2008 11:32:43 AM)

I would have to concur with the T34 for WW2 era. For the modern tank, the newest Leopard 2A6. the Abrams is a little too vulnerable to heatseeking AT weapons with that blowtorch of an exhaust shooting out the back end of it.



Adnan Meshuggi -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/9/2008 2:44:13 PM)

no "alltime"-besttankever exist.

Why? Cause a T34 from 1940 was superior to any other 1940-tank, but compared to a hummer with tow it is toast.

Every tank can only rated in its time.

So: in ww2 its for me
1.) Tiger I
2.) Panther
3.) T34-85

Modern Times:
1.) Leclerc
2.) Leopard2M6/ChallengerII
3.) M1Abrahams

But the problem with the modern tanks is, they never fought in a real war under combat-tank-circumstances.
The slaughter of iraqi T72 with full air support could be done with M48... so no real test.

WW2 was the last real contest for tanks. Result: Like everything, mass beats quality. Esp. if the mass has air/art-support.




PimpYourAFV -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/9/2008 4:55:31 PM)

As for WW2, the sherman is the hands-down winner for best overall tank.  As for today, the Lamborghini of tanks is the Merkava Mk.4.  If you don't agree then talk to the barrel...

[img]http://images.military.com/pics/SoldierTech_Merkava2.jpg[/img]





Kuokkanen -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/9/2008 6:23:37 PM)

quote:

WW2 was the last real contest for tanks. Result: Like everything, mass beats quality. Esp. if the mass has air/art-support.

I recall reading something about two Tigers on patrol destroying dozen T-34... And anyone, who has played Gulf War scenarios of WinSPMBT, should know what couple Abrams and Chargers will do to dozen T-50. So much about numerical superiority [:'(]

[edit]
IMO best tank in SPWAW is Panther: well protected but fast, and penetration value exceeds Tiger's 88 [;)]



FlashfyreSP -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/9/2008 11:02:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

quote:

WW2 was the last real contest for tanks. Result: Like everything, mass beats quality. Esp. if the mass has air/art-support.

I recall reading something about two Tigers on patrol destroying dozen T-34... And anyone, who has played Gulf War scenarios of WinSPMBT, should know what couple Abrams and Chargers will do to dozen T-50. So much about numerical superiority [:'(]

[edit]
IMO best tank in SPWAW is Panther: well protected but fast, and penetration value exceeds Tiger's 88 [;)]


Shouldn't base your choice on what a game depicts...computer games are by no means accurate as to the realities of combat. Many aspects of the battlefield are not able to be computer modelled, making them poor substitutes for scientific research.



V22 Osprey -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/9/2008 11:49:27 PM)

Ok,post like this:

Best Tank of WW2:
(Your list here)
Best Tank of Modern:
(Your List here)




Kuokkanen -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/11/2008 7:44:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FlashfyreSP


quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

quote:

WW2 was the last real contest for tanks. Result: Like everything, mass beats quality. Esp. if the mass has air/art-support.

I recall reading something about two Tigers on patrol destroying dozen T-34... And anyone, who has played Gulf War scenarios of WinSPMBT, should know what couple Abrams and Chargers will do to dozen T-50. So much about numerical superiority [:'(]

[edit]
IMO best tank in SPWAW is Panther: well protected but fast, and penetration value exceeds Tiger's 88 [;)]


Shouldn't base your choice on what a game depicts...computer games are by no means accurate as to the realities of combat. Many aspects of the battlefield are not able to be computer modelled, making them poor substitutes for scientific research.

Uh... what's this forum again?



FlashfyreSP -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/12/2008 3:07:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

quote:

ORIGINAL: FlashfyreSP


quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

quote:

WW2 was the last real contest for tanks. Result: Like everything, mass beats quality. Esp. if the mass has air/art-support.

I recall reading something about two Tigers on patrol destroying dozen T-34... And anyone, who has played Gulf War scenarios of WinSPMBT, should know what couple Abrams and Chargers will do to dozen T-50. So much about numerical superiority [:'(]

[edit]
IMO best tank in SPWAW is Panther: well protected but fast, and penetration value exceeds Tiger's 88 [;)]


Shouldn't base your choice on what a game depicts...computer games are by no means accurate as to the realities of combat. Many aspects of the battlefield are not able to be computer modelled, making them poor substitutes for scientific research.

Uh... what's this forum again?


You referred to how the WinSPMBT game depicts combat between modern tanks. I simply pointed out that you probably shouldn't use a computer game as a source of relevant research. It is by no means indicative of how a given weapons system operates in the real world. Game designers do an awful lot of "fudging" and abstracting of data to make the game work; in most cases at the expense of real operational abilities.



Kuokkanen -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/12/2008 7:57:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FlashfyreSP

You referred to how the WinSPMBT game depicts combat between modern tanks.

Oh, righto... I thought you were referring to my comment about Panther's penetration value [8|]



FlashfyreSP -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/13/2008 12:35:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

quote:

ORIGINAL: FlashfyreSP

You referred to how the WinSPMBT game depicts combat between modern tanks.

Oh, righto... I thought you were referring to my comment about Panther's penetration value [8|]


Still, the topic is "best tank in the world", not "best tank in SPWAW". [sm=sign0003.gif]



V22 Osprey -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/13/2008 1:09:13 AM)



Agreed.



jeffmac -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/13/2008 2:05:03 AM)

For WW 2 it's a toss up between the T34 and the Sherman. I firmly believe the Abrams is the best of the modern era.



JEB Davis -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/13/2008 5:05:15 AM)

For me, it's the Matilda II.



PimpYourAFV -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/13/2008 12:37:32 PM)

Modern tanks are hard to compare cause they tend to copy each other and have never fought.  Most probably they will become obsolete and replaced without a war to prove which is the best.  The only case was when the Abrams beat up the T-72s of Iraq so easily but the T-72s were a couple of decades behind in tech, and the Israelis tested-out various tanks in their wars.

Some tanks have a niche advantage like the Russian tanks have the best mobility and the Abrams has a good gun (but no missile).  As mentioned, I like the Merkava Mk4 cause it has the best crew protection of any tank.  The Abrams and Leopard 2 designs load the armor onto the front hull, while the Merkava, thanks to frequent tank fights with the arabs, know the best way to protect the whole tank.  As for the crew, Israelis are the best trained with the highest morale and train with lazers shut off and hitting targets (leftover Syrian tank wrecks) on the first shot while on the move with iron sights.  So with crews doubly effective compared to other nations and a well-protected hull, the Merkavas would perform the best in a tank battle.

Merkava also wins easily for style.  The family drove their Merkava to the stadium for an event and it had no problem clearing out most of the bleachers for a good choice of seats.

[image]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Merkava-4-latrun-exhibition-3.jpg/800px-Merkava-4-latrun-exhibition-3.jpg[/image]



azraelck -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/21/2008 5:06:18 AM)

WWII, I say probably the T34. While it wasn't perfect by any means, it was cheap to build, fairly effective with the larger gun, reliable, and had the best armor pretty much of any medium tank.

Modern, I'd go with the Israeli Merkava. There is no other tank I'd rather be in when the poopy hits the proverbial fan. But it's a lot closer now-a-days, since most everyone sells or trades the tech around; pretty much every modern MBT has some variation of the same Chobham (sp?) armor, and a big main gun using HEAT rounds.

I just like the Merkava because it was designed with crew survivability in mind as well as battle field effectiveness. Which makes more sense, since a tank is only as effective as it's crew.



Kuokkanen -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/21/2008 8:28:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: azraelck

since most everyone sells or trades the tech around; pretty much every modern MBT has some variation of the same Chobham (sp?) armor, and a big main gun using HEAT rounds.

120 and 125 mm smoothbores seems to be very common MBT weapons.



stevemk1a -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/21/2008 11:06:59 PM)

I nominate the Bob Semple tank!

[image]local://upfiles/6080/C592F3F048724BA78CCDC5F7A069D636.jpg[/image]



Mac67 -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/27/2008 2:21:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willy

I nominate the Bob Semple tank!


What the hell is that monstrousity? [X(]

It looks like something the A-Team used to build out of trash-cans [:D]



stevemk1a -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/27/2008 4:05:17 AM)

It was designed in New Zealand as a stop-gap weapon during the Japanese invasion scare early in the Pacific war. Bob Semple (New Zealand's minister of public works) and a NZ public works engineer lashed it together "without blueprints or drawings" [:D]

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/newzealand/newzealand.html

<edit>
I just noticed Bob was also NZ's minister of Defence ...[:D]







Mac67 -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/27/2008 4:42:08 AM)

Damn lucky they never got invaded then!

How the hell did they fit 8 men inside it? [X(]

I sincerely hope that no-one had eaten a curry the night before [:D]



azraelck -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (4/30/2008 6:37:24 AM)

No one ever tells you this in school, but you can get used to anything if forced to... like being stacked like firewood in a tin can tank. 



Sarganto -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (7/15/2008 2:20:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willy

I nominate the Bob Semple tank!

[image]local://upfiles/6080/C592F3F048724BA78CCDC5F7A069D636.jpg[/image]

I guess we have a winner!



Shawkhan -> RE: The Greatest Tank Ever (7/15/2008 8:12:05 PM)

...In my opinion, the 'Best' tank would be the one I would prefer to be in myself in combat one on one with another nation's tank.
...In WWII the Tiger could defeat any other tank of its time. People who talk about the T-34 are going on its strategic assets; mobility,cost, etc. The facts are that the T-34 was incredibly crude in its construction. Drivers were issued a mallet to assist in changing gears for instance. Its sighting systems were also crude restricting its effective range to a mere fraction of the potential for the powerful cannon it carried. In actual combat, Tigers would pick off T-34s at ranges where they couldn't even get a visible target. People who talk endlessly about armor slope appear to know too little about ballistics. At ranges over a few hundred meters the trajectory of cannon rounds is actually trending downwards, making armor slope more and more of a liability as range increases. But I digress.
...In modern times, the people who advocate for the Merkava are surprisingly well-informed. If I had to ride a tank into combat, the tank nicknamed 'the life insurance policy' is the one I would prefer to trust my life to. Obviously, nothing Russian made has been able to stand up to it, and hopefully it will never face the Abrams, LeClercs, Challengers and others of the Western allies. In its way, it is the Tiger tank of the modern era. It is I think the slowest of modern tanks, but its protection is certainly the most comprehensive, and its gun is on a par with anyone elses.



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