Winter Valley (Full Version)

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therhino -> Winter Valley (4/16/2008 5:07:42 AM)

I am asking this question here, because I don't know where else too. This is taken from the WV website:
Wintervalley is committed to bringing the PC game player a wide range of maximum sport titles including, Maximum-Hockey, Maximum-Lacrosse, and Maximum-Baseball. These titles will be released over the next two years.

Are there still plans for more Maximum sport games and if so has work been started?
therhino



GlennN -> RE: Winter Valley (4/16/2008 5:00:30 PM)

Very brave of you to ask . . . at this point, I would be afraid David would throw something at the questioner!! The mind does wander with the possibilities of the other sports though. Maybe Matrix can loan David some programmers?



Marauders -> RE: Winter Valley (4/16/2008 7:07:06 PM)

Rhino, just a bit of history here ....

When David designed Maximum Football, it was a far less ambitious product.  It was just supposed to do a quick little game of football with three different rule types (it started as a Canadian Rules project).  Maximum flexibility was the plan.  It was not really going to be a maximum simulator with all of the detailed rulesets and any career mode.

Even on the old boards, Glenn and I stated that Maximum Football would do much better with at least a career mode ready database, more detail in the rulesets, and more detailed field positions.  David resisted this, because he had not planned Maximum Football that way, and it was 90% complete for publication.

When Matrix Games became the publisher, there was a push for a bare bones career mode and some other changes for the game.  This caused changes in the database and a lot more programming.  This was one of the causes for delays in the initial release.

Upon release, there was community pressure to make each rulesets more distinct - especially with penalties.  David agreed to flesh these out, but it would take months, and it caused follow on bugs with stats that made the game look less stable than it was.  David continued to keep working to get it right with the help of the beta team and community support.

Over time, it became obvious that Maximum Football would be better with more detailed depth charts, gameplans, and other items.  Add this to David's constant upgrades to other items on his own or by feedback, and more time was to be used.  Finally, stat changes and gameplan changes also were made.

Not only did changes in Maximum Football leave little or no time for Maximum-LaCrosse, but it even pushed back full scale development of Maximum-Football 3.0 somewhat.  One can debate if Maximum-Football needed to be where it is at this point, and I can say it has been debated, but here is where it is, and it is a good game.  Plans for Maximum Football 3.0 are even better and more ambitious, but that game is over a year a way.

I don't believe David will have the time to do Maximum-LaCrosse unless people want it more than Maximum Football 3.0 in the future.  Then again, maybe sales of Maximum Football 2.2 with take off and allow him the ability to hire some extra staff.  One never really knows.



therhino -> RE: Winter Valley (4/16/2008 8:14:05 PM)

Thanks Marauders,
That was my mistake. I went to the Winter Valley website for the first time last night and after making the post, realized the article was MaxFB  1.0[:D]
therhino



DONMVP -> RE: Winter Valley (4/16/2008 8:25:08 PM)

Well i for one appreciate all the work David has done and all the people who help him. Would love to see other sports to , but considering how far this game has come .I definately can understand why there is no progress on them . Keep up the good work , look forward to any other great things you do to the game , till 3.0 comes out next year . Maybe by then i`ll finally play a whole season , he says after 2 yrs owning the game.



therhino -> RE: Winter Valley (4/16/2008 8:37:11 PM)

I agree Maximum Football has come so far I don't want work to be stopped on it for a different game. Thank you David for all your hard work on this game. I can't till 3.0.
therhino



David Winter -> RE: Winter Valley (4/16/2008 9:52:50 PM)

Marauders summary is fairly accurate. In 2000-2001 (or whenever it was so long ago) when I first started thinking about doing another football game, there was never a goal to duplicate the minutia level detail of the CFL, NFL, or any other league. The original vision for Maximum-Football was a simple & generic 3D football game that allowed you to change fields, downs, players per side, and a few other rules. It was intended to be what people now call a "casual game". That said, over its life time it's moved a long way away from the original scope. That change in scope as meant I've been unable to do other titles.

I would still like to do other titles. Obviously you can't build up a game company on a single title and so others are needed. Lacrosse, baseball, hockey, they would all be really great titles. I think a Maximum-Football 2.2 version of a Hockey game would do very well. But all of them are complex to build and stats heavy. I have investigated doing other sports titles but they would be non-team (or at least no Team AI) sports, and beyond wins and losses, there would be few stats to worry about and so they are closer to my vision of casual sports games. So I am still looking at other titles but time dictates how quickly they're built. It would certainly be quicker with a paid staff.

thanks
David



therhino -> RE: Winter Valley (4/16/2008 10:19:07 PM)

Wow, It's amazing how far this game has come. I knew in the begining Maximum Football was not supposed to be so complex, but not that simple. Thanks for the quick replys.
therhino



Marauders -> RE: Winter Valley (4/16/2008 10:40:18 PM)

quote:

I knew in the begining Maximum Football was not supposed to be so complex, but not that simple.


It was complex in a way, as it had different rule sets.  The key was that it wasn't really designed originally having career play, and the rules would basically be generic other than the ones that could be changed.  It was a simple enough concept.

I don't think David really knew how much FBPro gamers were waiting for Maximum Football to be its replacement.  In a way, that put David in a tough position, as he was forced to add features that he had listed as items to be looked at down the road.  As we stand now, that made a much better product, but it left Maximum Football in a less than locked down state between updates. 

There has been criticism of that from gamers outside of the Maximum Football community, but David and the beta took more stock in what the Maximum Football game owners and community members had to say than observers or fans of other games, and the beta teams has always been a group of hardcore football fans. That is not to say that fans of Madden, FBPro, or FOF were not being listened to; it just means that the game owners were listened to first and foremost.

Maximum Football is now at a point were it can be used quite nicely for a casual game or a more hardcore league.  A lot of work was put into the PDS, gameplans, and depth charts, so I hope they are used well in league play.

quote:

Thanks for the quick replys.


As always, thank you for your questions and feedback.




MSO94 -> RE: Winter Valley (4/16/2008 11:08:47 PM)

Yea yea yea
i want a detailed Lacross game with stats and everything.
i want to make the team uniforms and change the field art. I want a top notch quick sim. with stats out the ya ya's i want a career stats function including retirement detailed stats. i want a hall of fame program and i want it NOW>

:)



therhino -> RE: Winter Valley (4/17/2008 1:58:25 AM)

MSO94,
I don't even know how to play Lacross, but it would sell really good. I don't think there would be any competion (at least I don't know of any) I am content with Maximum Football for the time being. 3.0 should be a great breakthrough.
therhino



garysorrell -> RE: Winter Valley (4/17/2008 2:04:29 AM)

I know I will pay for this...but I want Baseball.....yes, the sport where grown men stand around scratching themselves between the action.
I have OOTP...but I like on field graphics and gameplay.



therhino -> RE: Winter Valley (4/17/2008 2:09:50 AM)

Baseball is much more of a sport than Lacross. How can a game where you hold bird nets [:D] on poles be any good? Hitting a ball with a round stick (coming 90 plus mph) is harder than catching on with a net.
therhino



Marauders -> RE: Winter Valley (4/17/2008 2:25:09 AM)

LaCross is a tough sport.

It is older than both baseball and football.



garysorrell -> RE: Winter Valley (4/17/2008 2:29:28 AM)

Whichever direction David goes...he will likely have the only graphical game of that sport on PC.



therhino -> RE: Winter Valley (4/17/2008 2:43:17 AM)

I was very sad to see EA leave MLB after 05, but David would do a much better job I think. I loved the MVP game and still play it. There is talk though that EA is trying to buy 2K8. If they put it on the PC that would be cool.
therhino



Marauders -> RE: Winter Valley (4/17/2008 4:04:04 AM)

quote:

If they put it on the PC that would be cool.


EA has all but abondoned the PC market for sports games.



therhino -> RE: Winter Valley (4/17/2008 4:16:52 AM)

I completely forgot about that. I am just glad we have Maximum Football which isn't going console.
therhino



redwolf1 -> RE: Winter Valley (4/17/2008 5:44:20 AM)

While I'm not a "consoller" by any means (95% of my gaming is PC (flightsims, football, fantasy RPGs)), not everything on them is terrible (but I go on record as hating the migration of software companies from PC to console).

I picked up a PS2 about 2 years ago (got it cheap) to try my hand at NCAA football (not too bad of a series at all, imho). Not a hard core baseballer at all, but recently picked up Sony's MLB'08 The Show (I have to have graphics to my sports games) and have been really pleased with it - the presentation and atmosphere of that game is phenominal and it has the best commentary I have heard in any game (surpass even the great NCAA Football in this regards) - anyways, having a blast when I play it.



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