Creating maps and scenarios

Creating maps and scenarios (Full Version)

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Bernie -> Creating maps and scenarios (3/22/2002 9:14:10 AM)
Okay, I'm home sick with the flu and want to try my hand at creating a scenario, complete with a custom map. What good tools do you folks suggest?

chief -> (3/22/2002 9:26:30 AM)
Bernie: The manual has a great breakdown, near the end, on making maps and scenarios and somewhere in this forum there is a tutorial by the master Wild Bill and its excellent also. (I believe he also wrote the one in the manual) Try a search of his name or subject "Tutorials" You also might try the Armor site and Tankheads site...Good hunting:D :) :cool:

Bernie -> (3/22/2002 10:16:29 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by chief [B]Bernie: The manual has a great breakdown, near the end, on making maps and scenarios and somewhere in this forum there is a tutorial by the master Wild Bill and its excellent also. (I believe he also wrote the one in the manual) Try a search of his name or subject "Tutorials" You also might try the Armor site and Tankheads site...Good hunting:D :) :cool: [/B][/QUOTE] I've been to the Armor Site, and over to Fred's site, but not to Tankheads yet. I did RTFM :) but what I'm looking for is a good, simple map editor, and so far I'm not finding anything. The editor included with the game has some serious limitations.

Bernie -> (3/22/2002 10:43:45 AM)
Oh boy... I sure didn't realize what I was getting myself into here. Seems you need 3 or 4 obscure and undocumented programs to do any kind of decent job on a map for this game. And forget about finding them through the maze of threads here. Most of the links, due to the changeover in servers I suppose, have to be cut and pasted into the browser, and then the majority of them come up as 404's. I think I'll just sit back and forget this silly notion of mine. Leave the map and scenario designing to the folks who have the patience to find all those programs and get them all to work together. Someone, one of these days, is going to come up with a map & scenario editor for this game that will make it simple (or at least simpler) and we'll all beat a path to their web site. :) Gee, wouldn't it be great if we could just use Sim City to make the maps? :D

DoubleDeuce -> (3/22/2002 11:47:35 AM)
Sorry, I don't post much here but I have to jump in on this. The Map Editor in the game, while it may be lacking explicit instuctions is very a capable tool. Some of you know I am running some multiplayer campaigns/tournaments and for the 1st one created 60 maps that all fit together into an 8 x 8 grid. My 2nd effort is the reporduction of the Kerch Penninsula in the Crimea. Again, no small feat. I have about 8 players creating these maps for me so I can concentrate of the game mechanics, OOB's, etc. What these guys are doing with the basic map editor is just short of amazing. It is time consuming but these guys are knocking them out in 4-5 days and they are based on actual maps and are 100x240 in size. What I guess I'm saying is the tools are there it is just like art, you gotta create it one bit at a time and learn as you go.

Bernie -> (3/22/2002 12:03:05 PM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Double Deuce [B]Sorry, I don't post much here but I have to jump in on this. The Map Editor in the game, while it may be lacking explicit instuctions is very a capable tool. What I guess I'm saying is the tools are there it is just like art, you gotta create it one bit at a time and learn as you go. [/B][/QUOTE] I don't doubt that the map editor in the game is a capable tool, but it is far from what I'd call "user friendly" Not having much artistic talent myself, I find it a bit daunting to try to create something and have to "learn as you go". Even simple things, such as what types of graphics can be overlayed without affecting the terrain underneath is (to quote Wild Bill from the manual) "Something you'll learn with experience." I'm not looking to recreate a specific battle or campaign here, just make one little scenario that I thought would be fun to develop. I don't want to have to draw my own icons and make them into .shp files. I don't want to have to troubleshoot a map for 4-5 days because one of those terrain types got wiped out by another and I didn't realize it because it's "learn as you go". Basically, I'm home sick for a couple days and wanted to just whip up a small little scenario to occupy my time with. Preferably using predefined objects that can simply be placed on a map. I want terrain that I can click and drag, not have to edit hex by hex and then redit hex by hex again later to overlay stuff on. I'm a casual player, not a professional scenario designer. I guess what I'm looking for, to use your art metaphor, is a "paint by number" kit, not a collection of professional tools.

DoubleDeuce -> (3/22/2002 12:19:47 PM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bernie [B]I don't doubt that the map editor in the game is a capable tool, but it is far from what I'd call "user friendly"[/B][/QUOTE] You are definately right on that point! [QUOTE]Originally posted by Bernie [B]I don't want to have to draw my own icons and make them into .shp files. [/B][/QUOTE] Most images you need should be in the editor although like in the case of buildings, you do have to keep clicking in the same spot to toggle through the different graphics. That does get a little old sometimes. I don't think the current game engine can handle any kind of drag and drop system. Maybe Combat Leader can :p

Bernie -> (3/22/2002 12:22:59 PM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Double Deuce [B] You are definately right on that point! Most images you need should be in the editor although like in the case of buildings, you do have to keep clicking in the same spot to toggle through the different graphics. That does get a little old sometimes. I don't think the current game engine can handle any kind of drag and drop system. Maybe Combat Leader can :p [/B][/QUOTE] Well, I may not be an artist, but I am a programmer. The current game engine would have nothing to do with any program used to create or modify maps and scenarios. The editor included with the game is a good example. It doesn't work through the game engine, it's a stand alone program in its own right.

DoubleDeuce -> (3/22/2002 12:40:22 PM)
You talking about the Chandla Map Editor or the Editor actually in the game itself? The Chandla Map Editor I have yet to really figure out and really only use it for cropping, cutting and pasting from map to map. The in-game Map Editor is the one I'm thinking of.

Bernie -> (3/22/2002 12:51:40 PM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Double Deuce [B]You talking about the Chandla Map Editor or the Editor actually in the game itself? The Chandla Map Editor I have yet to really figure out and really only use it for cropping, cutting and pasting from map to map. The in-game Map Editor is the one I'm thinking of. [/B][/QUOTE] Either of them. They're both stand alone programs. The one in the game just has the distinction of having a button on the panel in the game. In anycase, a new editor would not be dependant on the game engine at all. You, and other scenario designers, use a variety of tools to do your work. The only thing that matters is the final scenario files generated by those tools. As long as they're in the proper format the game will run them, and care not a whit how they were made.

Fredde -> (3/22/2002 6:33:58 PM)
The in-game map editor works perfectly fine for most applications and is the very simplest to learn how to use. Just start clicking around and you will have your map sooner than you know. I've used this one for all my scenarios. Build the basic terrain first (hills and rivers), then go on with forest, buildings etc and lay down roads and paths in the last step. Like the previous writer, I find Chlandas editor most useful for cutting and pasting and changing size of maps.

Bernie -> (3/23/2002 1:52:19 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bernie [B] Either of them. They're both stand alone programs. The one in the game just has the distinction of having a button on the panel in the game. In anycase, a new editor would not be dependant on the game engine at all. You, and other scenario designers, use a variety of tools to do your work. The only thing that matters is the final scenario files generated by those tools. As long as they're in the proper format the game will run them, and care not a whit how they were made. [/B][/QUOTE] Obviously I was feverish and delusional (remember, I have the flu) when I typed this. The editor in the game is not a stand alone app. The OOB editor that comes with the game is, but not the scenario editor. However, the rest of what I said is still true. SPWAW could care less how the scenario files are made, just as long as they are readable and correctly formatted.

Greg McCarty -> (3/23/2002 3:02:22 PM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Double Deuce [B]Sorry, I don't post much here but I have to jump in on this. The Map Editor in the game, while it may be lacking explicit instuctions is very a capable tool. Some of you know I am running some multiplayer campaigns/tournaments and for the 1st one created 60 maps that all fit together into an 8 x 8 grid. My 2nd effort is the reporduction of the Kerch Penninsula in the Crimea. Again, no small feat. I have about 8 players creating these maps for me so I can concentrate of the game mechanics, OOB's, etc. What these guys are doing with the basic map editor is just short of amazing. It is time consuming but these guys are knocking them out in 4-5 days and they are based on actual maps and are 100x240 in size. What I guess I'm saying is the tools are there it is just like art, you gotta create it one bit at a time and learn as you go. [/B][/QUOTE] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree. Don't sell the intrinsic editing tools short. They are quite good once you get familiar with them. I've done a number of scenarios using nothing more. One simple technique I've used is to create a large random map to start with, using the terrain and season of choice, then weave in the features that your historical map requires. If you don't like the first offering try several until you like the layout, then begin modeling. This will save time, and once you get used to the map tools, they really are not as tedious as you might think. It is entirely posssible to manage a real work of art. Don't be intimidated. Experiment!

Bernie -> (3/23/2002 3:43:44 PM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Greg McCarty [B] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree. Don't sell the intrinsic editing tools short. They are quite good once you get familiar with them. I've done a number of scenarios using nothing more. One simple technique I've used is to create a large random map to start with, using the terrain and season of choice, then weave in the features that your historical map requires. If you don't like the first offering try several until you like the layout, then begin modeling. This will save time, and once you get used to the map tools, they really are not as tedious as you might think. It is entirely posssible to manage a real work of art. Don't be intimidated. Experiment! [/B][/QUOTE] It's still very, very far from "user friendly"! And I haven't given up, just changed what I'm planning. Instead of the large scenario I was thinking of I'm playing with a small one and learning the tools. Sure wish the icon guides were working for me though. I'm using v7.1beta and they won't come up.

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