RE: Aircraft List (Full Version)

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m10bob -> RE: Aircraft List (5/8/2008 2:42:42 PM)

Actually...I am also starting to buy into that whole "B 19 ugliness" thing.

For now, I'm just hanging on to the old girl the way guys hate to throw away old underwear and shirts they wore in school, 10 sizes ago.......[:D]



Terminus -> RE: Aircraft List (5/8/2008 2:47:04 PM)

Flip-flopper...[:'(] You hang on to your beliefs, Sir!



pad152 -> RE: Aircraft List (5/8/2008 8:08:07 PM)

Suprised to see the Japanese KI-9 trainer, so are other training aircraft like the AT-6 in AE?





[link=http://navalhistory.flixco.info/G/c1.50000000000000E0001x6/8330/a0.htm][/link]




Dixie -> RE: Aircraft List (5/8/2008 8:39:04 PM)

I'm not trying to complain (honest) but I am interested in the reasoning behind some American types (e.g. Twin Mustang, Skyraider, )-80) inclusion in the game, but not British types with similar service dates (Hornet, Vampire). These types served in the region in the immediate post war era and had the war dragged on the likely would have made it to at least some front line RAF/RAAF squadrons.

EDIT: The point I am trying to make is that there is just as much of a case to be made for the inclusion of these types as the American and Japanese types that were too late to see wartime action.



Terminus -> RE: Aircraft List (5/8/2008 10:12:17 PM)

Yeah, what's that about?[:D][:D][:D]



langley -> RE: Aircraft List (5/8/2008 11:34:48 PM)

I think Dixie has a point!
Being British myself I would also like to see the Hornet and Vampire in the AE version.
What Hurricane versions will be available in AE by the way?

MJT



pad152 -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 12:59:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Oh yeah, Bob... There was talk of including the B-19 in AE, but it failed the ugliness test...[:'(]



Can't be any uglier than some of those early Russia bombers! Some look like a boat with wings![:D]



Terminus -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 1:15:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: langley

I think Dixie has a point!
Being British myself I would also like to see the Hornet and Vampire in the AE version.
What Hurricane versions will be available in AE by the way?

MJT


Every last one of them. If it was a Hurricane variant used within the area and time interval covered by WitP AE, it's there.

As for the Vampire, the version which would have been available for deployment would have been nearly useless there, with very short range and low payload. The Sea Vampire wasn't introduced into operational service until 1948.

Neither the Vampire nor the Hornet were available in sufficient numbers in 1945-46. The Meteor would have been more likely, and it wasn't likely. I don't think the British have been as short-changed as people seem to believe.



Dixie -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 1:39:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: langley

What Hurricane versions will be available in AE by the way?

MJT


IIRC there were 9 different Hurricane types which were around the Far East in any numbers.

MkI
MkIIb
MkIIc
MkIId
TacR MkII
PR MkII
MkIV
FRMkIV
Sea Hurricane


quote:

Neither the Vampire nor the Hornet were available in sufficient numbers in 1945-46. The Meteor would have been more likely, and it wasn't likely. I don't think the British have been as short-changed as people seem to believe.


I'm not saying that there were large numbers of the Hornets/Vampires et al in 45-46, but there were more DH Hornets in 1945 than Twin Mustangs or Skyraiders which are in the game.



Terminus -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 1:58:45 AM)

The Hornet F.1 was only built in 60 examples as far as I'm aware (from 45 to 48), and I don't think it could have attained operational capability in 1945.

You are of course correct in relation to the numbers of F-82's and AD-1's available. I think there were less than 10 combined of the two types extant.



Terminus -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 2:05:03 AM)

There's a dozen Hurricane variants currently in the game, including Dutch and Canadian, along with RAF/RIAF and FAA.



Dixie -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 2:09:11 AM)

Well the Hornet was designed for the Pacific Theatre and had the war carried on the MkI production may well have been ramped up to a more useful level.  There is a problem with assigning any real meaining to production figures of late war/early post war 'planes as production was scaled back rapidly with the end of hostilities. 

It's subjective and I can't prove it either way but I suspect that production would have been higher if the war was longer, as it was there was no need to equip the RAF for a long range war in the Pacific after summer 1945.  Instead with the emphasis expected to be on defence in Europe the short range (and probable poor performance in the climate) of the first jets wasn't as much of a stumbling block as it would have been in the Pacific. 



Terminus -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 2:10:37 AM)

We don't disagree, but how much in a position to "ramp things up" was Britain really? You guys were flat broke!



Dixie -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 2:26:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

We don't disagree, but how much in a position to "ramp things up" was Britain really? You guys were flat broke!


True, but think of the money we would have saved on demob suits [:D] They could have reinvested that money [:D] Plus we sold Spitfires (and Mosquitos & a few Lancasters) to pretty much every European (and Middle Eastern) country post-war [:)]



rjopel -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 2:50:30 AM)

Logistics.  The reason the British Jets didn't get into AE.  I'd doubt the UK could set up the required logistics trail in order to properly support the jets.  In fact did they even deploy any of the jets into liberated Europe before the war ended.  With the Amercian planes the logisitics lines are shorter and they have a more robust economy.

In fact due to logistics problems the Commenwealth division scheduled to take part in the invasion of Japan were to be reequipped entirely with American arms and equipment.



Dixie -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 10:38:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rjopel

Logistics. The reason the British Jets didn't get into AE. I'd doubt the UK could set up the required logistics trail in order to properly support the jets. In fact did they even deploy any of the jets into liberated Europe before the war ended. With the Amercian planes the logisitics lines are shorter and they have a more robust economy.

In fact due to logistics problems the Commenwealth division scheduled to take part in the invasion of Japan were to be reequipped entirely with American arms and equipment.


Yes. Meteors of 616 Sqn were in Belgium (Feb '45) Holland (Apr '45) and Germany by the war's end. I'm not talking solely about the jets here, but the logistics trail would have been no more complicated than that required for Tiger Force after all.

Realistically there was not much chance of the RAF deploying it's jets to the Far East, early jets had a poor range which was no good for the Pacific. But I feel there would have been every chance that Hornets in particular would have made it to the frontline squadrons. IMO that would be far more likely than the USAAF managing to equip it's squadrons with Twin Mustangs and Skyraiders...



Kereguelen -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 11:57:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: rjopel

Logistics. The reason the British Jets didn't get into AE. I'd doubt the UK could set up the required logistics trail in order to properly support the jets. In fact did they even deploy any of the jets into liberated Europe before the war ended. With the Amercian planes the logisitics lines are shorter and they have a more robust economy.

In fact due to logistics problems the Commenwealth division scheduled to take part in the invasion of Japan were to be reequipped entirely with American arms and equipment.


Yes. Meteors of 616 Sqn were in Belgium (Feb '45) Holland (Apr '45) and Germany by the war's end. I'm not talking solely about the jets here, but the logistics trail would have been no more complicated than that required for Tiger Force after all.

Realistically there was not much chance of the RAF deploying it's jets to the Far East, early jets had a poor range which was no good for the Pacific. But I feel there would have been every chance that Hornets in particular would have made it to the frontline squadrons. IMO that would be far more likely than the USAAF managing to equip it's squadrons with Twin Mustangs and Skyraiders...


Did the Hornet even become operational before May 1946? Delivery of Twin Mustangs and Skyraiders had started in August 1945 (but the initial contracts were cancelled when the war ended).



Dixie -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 12:32:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: rjopel

Logistics. The reason the British Jets didn't get into AE. I'd doubt the UK could set up the required logistics trail in order to properly support the jets. In fact did they even deploy any of the jets into liberated Europe before the war ended. With the Amercian planes the logisitics lines are shorter and they have a more robust economy.

In fact due to logistics problems the Commenwealth division scheduled to take part in the invasion of Japan were to be reequipped entirely with American arms and equipment.


Yes. Meteors of 616 Sqn were in Belgium (Feb '45) Holland (Apr '45) and Germany by the war's end. I'm not talking solely about the jets here, but the logistics trail would have been no more complicated than that required for Tiger Force after all.

Realistically there was not much chance of the RAF deploying it's jets to the Far East, early jets had a poor range which was no good for the Pacific. But I feel there would have been every chance that Hornets in particular would have made it to the frontline squadrons. IMO that would be far more likely than the USAAF managing to equip it's squadrons with Twin Mustangs and Skyraiders...


Did the Hornet even become operational before May 1946? Delivery of Twin Mustangs and Skyraiders had started in August 1945 (but the initial contracts were cancelled when the war ended).


Yep, production was active from 1st Feb 1945. The first operational squadron was No 64 Sqn in May 1946, whether they would have been in more widespread service earlier if the war had continued is probably a matter of opinion.

I thought that delivery of Twin Mustangs wasn't until 1948(?) and the first deliveries of Skyraiders wasn't until December 1946.



Terminus -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 12:53:47 PM)

The Twin Mustang entered service as a day-fighter bomber escort in 1946. The night-fighter version came on-line in 1948.



Dixie -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 12:55:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The Twin Mustang entered service as a day-fighter bomber escort in 1946. The night-fighter version came on-line in 1948.


That's probably what I was thinking of then. Or I was imagining stuff again [;)]



Terminus -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 12:57:04 PM)

Most likely. The night-fighter Twin Mustang was the most well-known version; the first three Communist aircraft shot down in A2A combat during the Korean War all fell to F-82s.



Kereguelen -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 1:27:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The Twin Mustang entered service as a day-fighter bomber escort in 1946. The night-fighter version came on-line in 1948.


Yes, but 20 P-82B (production aircraft) had already been delivered to the USAAF when Japan surrendered. Contract was cancelled then and a new order put in 1946 for P-82E and P-82F versions.

As far as I know, the De Havilland Hornet was not in production in 1945.



Terminus -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 1:30:54 PM)

Far as I could find, those 20 Twin Mustangs were all sitting at the factory, waiting for engines to become available. As for the Hornet, it was probably in pre-production in 1945.



treespider -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 3:08:34 PM)

Ahh the great debate over aircraft that may make an appearance in the game for maybe a month and if they do appear I would consider the game a Japanese Victory.[8|]



Dixie -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 3:26:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

As far as I know, the De Havilland Hornet was not in production in 1945.


The first production Hornet was delivered to the RAF on 28th February 1945.



Kereguelen -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 4:22:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

As far as I know, the De Havilland Hornet was not in production in 1945.


The first production Hornet was delivered to the RAF on 28th February 1945.


I stand corrected[8D]

But this leads to the question why the RAF did not send any Hornets to the FE, considering that the Hornet had been designed for service there.



Dixie -> RE: Aircraft List (5/9/2008 4:41:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

I stand corrected[8D]

But this leads to the question why the RAF did not send any Hornets to the FE, considering that the Hornet had been designed for service there.


I don't have any concrete evidence, it's more of a suspicion on my part. With the end of the war, and the fact that we were basically flat broke weapons production was scaled back drastically and the armed forces demobbed almost overnight. With Japan surrendered there was no need for large numbers of long range fighters to be sent to the Far East so production was slowed down.

I think that if Japan had fought on, or the war had been going differently then the Horent (and other types) would have been pressed into service quicker, with less conversion time for the units assigned to fly them. The government felt that it was important that the Commonwealth forces were fully engaged in the fight against Japan so I don't think that it is a big stretch to think that more modern types would be deployed in useful numbers to the Far East.

I could be wrong, I have no hard evidence to support my views they are based on what *could* have happened vs what *did* happen. The Hornet first flew at about the same time as the Lincoln which was pushed into service for Tiger Force so it sould have made it with sufficient backing. (I realise that the Lincoln was basically a stretched Lanaster so it would have had an easier time entering service)



veji1 -> RE: Aircraft List (1/27/2009 12:48:44 PM)

would it be possible to have a teaser of the art work on new planes such as the KI-87, 93 etc ?



Yamato hugger -> RE: Aircraft List (1/27/2009 2:25:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

Suprised to see the Japanese KI-9 trainer, so are other training aircraft like the AT-6 in AE?



The only "trainers" in the game are those that actually outfitted combat squadrons, such as the Texan and Stearman.



Japan -> RE: Aircraft List (1/27/2009 3:28:38 PM)

But no Liz...    [&:]


Well maby the Ki-44 2C will make up for it... (the modefied vertion of the Tojo with 4? 20mm cannons)



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