Japanese production question (Full Version)

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niceguy2005 -> Japanese production question (6/2/2008 10:40:51 PM)

Uh-oh...

It's January 10, 1942 and I seem to already be running dangerously low on supplies in the home islands. [X(][X(][X(]

I have changed very little (that I know of) in the Japanese production system. I have shut-down a few plane factories and changed over a few more. It's certainly not a large scale change. Status quo on almost everything else. I have shipped at least 300K of supplies out to front line areas to supply troops. Seems like I should have a better supply situation though. Am I doing something wrong?



ny59giants -> RE: Japanese production question (6/2/2008 10:49:48 PM)

That's about 10k per day. That's way too much so soon. The best thing to do, is install WitPTracker. I've done so to help John 3rd in his PBEM game and now for my own PBEM against him using Nemo's Empire Ablaze mod. This utility is a god send for managing the Japanese economy, especially for a novice like me. [:D] It doesn't make managing the economy bullet-proof, but pretty damn close. His AAR and soon mine will have plenty of screenshots showing how useful a tool it is.

What mod are you using?? 



niceguy2005 -> RE: Japanese production question (6/2/2008 11:02:49 PM)

No Mod. Straight up stock. Playing the AI and I was worried that mods would only further confuse the poor thing. [:D]

I thought maybe I had shipped out too much too soon. I'm assuming that if I don't change production much and I don't ship more supplies that the HI will start recovering pretty much immediately. Is that a good assumption? All cities are still in the green on supplies, just a lot lower than I'm comfortable with.

In a related question, my strategy does not call for large offensives in China until later in the war. Will China be a supply boost, or a drain?



Chris21wen -> RE: Japanese production question (6/3/2008 1:23:42 AM)

I've installed the tracker but I'm struggling to work out the industry bit. What's the best place to go to monitor HI etc.



Mynok -> RE: Japanese production question (6/3/2008 1:34:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005
just a lot lower than I'm comfortable with.


Erm....perhaps you might define the relationship between the above and

quote:

running low on supplies in the homeland


Considering you are a die hard AFB of long standing, perhaps you are not used to "normal" levels of Japanese supply. [8D]



Nemo121 -> RE: Japanese production question (6/3/2008 1:35:58 AM)

LOL!!! I think Mynok might be right. I generally run Japan with a global supply ( in all bases ) of 2 million. That includes bases outside of Japan. So 2.5 million is really comfortable and not a worry at all. 2.2 million requires a few cuts to rebuild and anything below 2 million limits my ability to advance further quickly.



Mike Solli -> RE: Japanese production question (6/3/2008 1:37:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

In a related question, my strategy does not call for large offensives in China until later in the war. Will China be a supply boost, or a drain?


Uusally, I'd say it's a wash. I'd recommend attacking in China, if only to kill Chinese. If you don't, the Chinese will become a flood you will have a hard time containing.

In my stock PBEM (Apr 43) I've attacked in China and have not pulled out any supply (nor have I shipped in any supply). There's not an abundance of supply there (only Shanghai has over 20k supply) but I've been able to attack when I wished.



FeurerKrieg -> RE: Japanese production question (6/3/2008 1:37:58 AM)

I bet Mynok is right here also. I read about Allied offensives in AAR with 500K, 1,000K etc supplies. As Japan an offensive feel 'robust' when you have 100k! [:D]



Mike Solli -> RE: Japanese production question (6/3/2008 1:38:56 AM)

Chris, I think you've been playing the Allies too long.  Ahh, the thought of too much of everything. [:D]



Mynok -> RE: Japanese production question (6/3/2008 1:40:06 AM)


Robust?  Heck, they'd find sake-bloated Japs floating down the Slot if Rabaul ever got that many supplies!



FeurerKrieg -> RE: Japanese production question (6/3/2008 1:40:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

In a related question, my strategy does not call for large offensives in China until later in the war. Will China be a supply boost, or a drain?


Uusally, I'd say it's a wash. I'd recommend attacking in China, if only to kill Chinese. If you don't, the Chinese will become a flood you will have a hard time containing.

In my stock PBEM (Apr 43) I've attacked in China and have not pulled out any supply (nor have I shipped in any supply). There's not an abundance of supply there (only Shanghai has over 20k supply) but I've been able to attack when I wished.



Sometimes I set up a couple small CS convoys from Taiwan to Hong Kong and Shanghai so that I'm adding a small amount of supplies to the Chinese supplies that get produced. I like to think it helps my offensives, but no way to really prove it. The thing I like about it is that I don't really have to think about it. My supplies trickle over from Taiwan to China and I don't have big piles of supplies sitting useless on the island.



Mynok -> RE: Japanese production question (6/3/2008 1:41:32 AM)

You have to ship them to Shanghai for that to work in CHS.

Just for the interest of those lurking.....



niceguy2005 -> RE: Japanese production question (6/3/2008 1:49:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005
just a lot lower than I'm comfortable with.


Erm....perhaps you might define the relationship between the above and

quote:

running low on supplies in the homeland


Considering you are a die hard AFB of long standing, perhaps you are not used to "normal" levels of Japanese supply. [8D]


Bases in the HI have anywhere from about 10,000 to 30,000 supply points..sometimes less at the bases that don't produce much. I have shipped about 300K to 400K to Malaya, PI and Palau...I'm actually gathering some supplies at now little used bases on Formosa and other areas. This may total 100K when I'm done.

It seems to me that my supplies on the HI are dropping noticeably by the turn and this is the real concern. Resources and Oil are stockpiled IIRC.

Again, I didn't do a lot (that I know of) to the production system. That means I also didn't turn much off.

I think I probably shipped a little too much to the front lines. However, as far as I can tell one of two things may be happening.
1. I shipped too many supplies to the front and that is somehow causing the economy to crash at home.
2. Some production item on the HI is eating up a lot of supplies, something that is basically being produced from the start of the game.



n01487477 -> RE: Japanese production question (6/3/2008 2:14:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

I've installed the tracker but I'm struggling to work out the industry bit. What's the best place to go to monitor HI etc.


Go to the Industry screen and then Global, turn by turn changes are here ... also look at John's AAR to see how NY59Giants has fixed his problem (with some advice from friends)
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1653188&mpage=23�� (page 16/17 onward.)

Otherwise, I'll help if you post some screen shots / email to me ... [edit] off to work now so I can do that later ...



Naskra -> RE: Japanese production question (6/3/2008 2:36:51 AM)

Have you thoroughly looked around for supplies?  I have seen Takamatsu draw most of the supplies in the Home Islands for no reason.



tsimmonds -> RE: Japanese production question (6/3/2008 2:48:49 AM)

How many factories/shipyards do you have set to repair? Doesn't take very many to outstrip your entire production; costs 1000 points per turn per factory. This is the main supply burner in the home islands for most of the game.



niceguy2005 -> RE: Japanese production question (6/3/2008 7:15:33 PM)

Going through now and shutting down almost all factory expansions, except for a few A6M2 factories. However, according to the Economics chart supplies are not required for any production other than new factories, which the chart shows as a cost of 100 per factory. So, not sure if it's new factories or what. Overall supplies are still pretty good I think.

[image]local://upfiles/17264/86FFF369FFF84473BD69524145F609FC.jpg[/image]



USSAmerica -> RE: Japanese production question (6/3/2008 9:02:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

Going through now and shutting down almost all factory expansions, except for a few A6M2 factories. However, according to the Economics chart supplies are not required for any production other than new factories, which the chart shows as a cost of 100 per factory. So, not sure if it's new factories or what. Overall supplies are still pretty good I think.

[image]local://upfiles/17264/86FFF369FFF84473BD69524145F609FC.jpg[/image]


You mention "new factories", but don't forget that any new factory points are created as damaged and need to be repaired at 1000 supply/1 factory point/1 day.



niceguy2005 -> RE: Japanese production question (6/3/2008 9:55:02 PM)

RIght. As I understand it "new" factories show up as damaged. So I have turned repair off on almost all factories. Except for some Nikijima engines and 1 expansion of 20 new A6M2 factories.



Yakface -> RE: Japanese production question (6/4/2008 12:05:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

Going through now and shutting down almost all factory expansions, except for a few A6M2 factories. However, according to the Economics chart supplies are not required for any production other than new factories, which the chart shows as a cost of 100 per factory. So, not sure if it's new factories or what. Overall supplies are still pretty good I think.

[image]local://upfiles/17264/86FFF369FFF84473BD69524145F609FC.jpg[/image]



You're fine, don't worry about it. 2.85 million supplies means you've got no fundamental problem, though it's possible to have distribution problems. If you are too low in the home islands, just stop shipping out for a few days. Situation will recover very quickly. Of course you have to make sure you have carted enough oil and resources to your home factories.



Mynok -> RE: Japanese production question (6/4/2008 12:52:48 AM)


2.85 mil is peachy. [:D]



Shark7 -> RE: Japanese production question (6/4/2008 1:14:23 AM)

Bah, Double Post.




Shark7 -> RE: Japanese production question (6/4/2008 1:14:56 AM)

While were looking at industry pictures. How does mine look? Which one have I massively overbuilt (I'm guessing armaments btw).

And yes I'm playing a mod that requires all the engines I am producing, eventually.

My problem is that I am moderately low on supplies in the HI, but I've been shipping to China like mad to try and make some headway there. At least the AI doesn't make me pay for it as badly.

BTW, date is 4-11-42



[image]local://upfiles/25927/561A403DED4243D5A2BD3F336AA01063.gif[/image]



n01487477 -> RE: Japanese production question (6/4/2008 1:25:10 AM)

Why aren't you guys using witpTracker or decoder to have a look at this specifically ?

HI = 14120/turn
Oil = 2730 * 6 = 16380/ turn (surplus)
Expended ---
Naval = 1220 * 3 = 2660
Merchant = 1055 *3 = 3165
Arm = 741 * 6 = 4446
Veh = 124 * 6 = 744
Eng = (1861 * 18) / 30 = 1116
Air = (926 * 18) /30 = 555 (although this depends on the number of engines)

Total = 12686 HI expended/ day, so you're cool !

[edit] Except I can see, if you have a distributions problem and supply of res/oil ... so all bets are off

Sorry if the calculations are faulty, but I'm in a hurry ...



Shark7 -> RE: Japanese production question (6/4/2008 1:34:06 AM)

Mine was more a question of how well am I doing for the long haul, sorry I wasn't more specific.



Mike Solli -> RE: Japanese production question (6/4/2008 1:52:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

While were looking at industry pictures. How does mine look? Which one have I massively overbuilt (I'm guessing armaments btw).

And yes I'm playing a mod that requires all the engines I am producing, eventually.

My problem is that I am moderately low on supplies in the HI, but I've been shipping to China like mad to try and make some headway there. At least the AI doesn't make me pay for it as badly.

BTW, date is 4-11-42



[image]local://upfiles/25927/561A403DED4243D5A2BD3F336AA01063.gif[/image]


Overall it looks good to me. A couple of comments:

Naval shipyards - You're short right now. Have you halted the Shinano? That'll save you 180 or so points a turn. If you're still short, I'd halt some RO class subs to get you in the black. I like to have about 500 points in the pool for emergencies.

Merchant shipyards - You have a big surplus. Acclerate something, like CVEs or TKs. If you're building more merchant shipyards, stop it for now. The best time to acclerate a ship is between 10x and 20x it's endurance.

If your HI pool is increasing each turn, you're doing good. You'll need the armament points later so continue to build up that pool.



Shark7 -> RE: Japanese production question (6/4/2008 2:40:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

While were looking at industry pictures. How does mine look? Which one have I massively overbuilt (I'm guessing armaments btw).

And yes I'm playing a mod that requires all the engines I am producing, eventually.

My problem is that I am moderately low on supplies in the HI, but I've been shipping to China like mad to try and make some headway there. At least the AI doesn't make me pay for it as badly.

BTW, date is 4-11-42



[image]local://upfiles/25927/561A403DED4243D5A2BD3F336AA01063.gif[/image]


Overall it looks good to me. A couple of comments:

Naval shipyards - You're short right now. Have you halted the Shinano? That'll save you 180 or so points a turn. If you're still short, I'd halt some RO class subs to get you in the black. I like to have about 500 points in the pool for emergencies.

Merchant shipyards - You have a big surplus. Acclerate something, like CVEs or TKs. If you're building more merchant shipyards, stop it for now. The best time to acclerate a ship is between 10x and 20x it's endurance.

If your HI pool is increasing each turn, you're doing good. You'll need the armament points later so continue to build up that pool.


Right now my naval is down due to turning Shinano back on and accelerating Junyo and Hiyo. That was a mistake, I should have done one or the other, not both. On Merchant ships, I'm actually accelerating the dozen or so ARs I converted. Subs and LBA have already been nightmare this game, and its only going to get worse, I'm hoping to keep those ARs in the major oil/resource ports and maybe save some ships that would otherwise sink.

What about converting a couple of the smaller merchant yards to naval yards? I seem to have far more merchant points per turn than I need. And I'm not building any. I think I ordered a couple of them up (the ones that started at 1 or 3 points), but they've not been expanded since December.

I'm having trouble keeping the HI centers supplied is my biggest problem. It's an enormous task trying to keep all those different HI bases in supply. I've got plenty of TK and AK, but no where near enough escorts to properly defend them in transit.



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