Question about offensive surface minelaying (Full Version)

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Fishbed -> Question about offensive surface minelaying (6/15/2008 4:45:39 PM)

Hey boyz

Can anyone please tell me what will happen if I try to mine an enemy base with a surface minelaying force? Will the enemy CD open fire during the minelaying, or do CD open fire only against minesweeping missions?

Thanks in advance!

Fish



Shark7 -> RE: Question about offensive surface minelaying (6/15/2008 5:19:48 PM)

I have been able to successfully mine ports against the AI without taking CD fire.  However I'm unsure if this was because the CDs couldn't fire or if there simply weren't any CD there.



Historiker -> RE: Question about offensive surface minelaying (6/15/2008 5:36:55 PM)

I guess it depends on the CD.
Idid it without problems in a PBEM, as well as I swept mines without problems. On the other hand, I saw 10 MSW sink in one night while trying to swep mines at Bataan.



castor troy -> RE: Question about offensive surface minelaying (6/15/2008 7:48:10 PM)

From my experience, enemy CD never shot on my mine layers so far in all my games. I usually only use DMs for this duty and never ML so I only do it as Allied. I would say CD guns donīt fire at ships on mine laying mission, just like they donīt fire at surface combat TFs. I guess itīs hardcoded on what CD guns fire.



Rainer -> RE: Question about offensive surface minelaying (6/15/2008 8:53:56 PM)

1.806 Allied against AI, no mods

Trying to mine Rabaul and Truk with TFs consisting of MLs, DMs and MSWs at both ports the TFs came under CD fire with very unpleasant results.



castor troy -> RE: Question about offensive surface minelaying (6/15/2008 9:06:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

1.806 Allied against AI, no mods

Trying to mine Rabaul and Truk with TFs consisting of MLs, DMs and MSWs at both ports the TFs came under CD fire with very unpleasant results.



If there were MSWs in the TF then Iīm not surprised though.



Rainer -> RE: Question about offensive surface minelaying (6/15/2008 9:14:32 PM)

I will try to mine Rabaul again with a TF consisting only of DMs and MLs out of Guadalcanal. It's Dec 42.
If this force will not be fired upon I'll make a mental note not to use a composition like that because I think that will be gamey.
On the other hand, I could imaging a ML TF laying a mine field in the area of a port but out of reach of the coastal guns. Blocking the sea lanes leading to the port so to speak.
Anybody with some insight on that?


EDIT: I will need a couple of (game) days. The minelayers are all in port at Brisbane. Have to collect the ships and forward them to Guadalcanal ...



Historiker -> RE: Question about offensive surface minelaying (6/15/2008 9:20:31 PM)

A hex is 60miles big. So mining it doesn't need to get inot the range of CD-batterys.



Rainer -> RE: Question about offensive surface minelaying (6/16/2008 12:35:59 AM)

Tests finished (1 test per turn. Starting port Shortland. Destination port Rabaul. 2 MLEs at Shortland to replenish depleted MLs).

Test 1: 3 DMs . No CD fire. Mine field layed. Heavy air attacks. 1 DM sunk.
Test 2: 2 DMs and 6 MSWs. No CD fire. Mine field layed. Heavy air attacks. 2 MSWs, 1DM sunk.
Test 3: 3 MLs. No CD fire. Mine field layed. Heavy air attacks. 2 MLs sunk.
Test 4: 3 MLs, 6 MSWs. No CD fire. A DD attacked the TF. 3 MSWs sunk. Mission aborted. (Destroyer sank by Allied air attack later).
Test 5: 2DMs, 2MLs, 6 DDs. No CD fire, Mine field layed. Heavy air attacks. 1 DM, 1 ML, 2 DDs sunk.

Conclusion: in no case the coastal guns of Rabaul fired. To make sure the CDs are OK a bombardement TF was send later to Rabaul (4 BBs, 4 CAs, 7 DDs). The bombardement TF drew heavy CD fire.

Remark: I withdraw my earlier stament about CDs firing at Mine Layer TFs. Looks like I had a mine SWEEPING TF in mind. Sorry about that.
Remark2: AI gets fairly upset about ML missions. Had I provided air cover for the ML TFs (which I did not) a fair share of bombers may have been collected.

Final words: Fishbed, go ahead and mine the enemy's ports as you desire [;)]



Fishbed -> RE: Question about offensive surface minelaying (6/16/2008 1:22:24 AM)

Thanks for the tests and the advices guys! [:)] [&o]




Rainer -> RE: Question about offensive surface minelaying (6/16/2008 3:08:00 AM)

Anytime [:)]

By the way, isn't Fishbed the NATO code name for the MiG 21?



bradfordkay -> RE: Question about offensive surface minelaying (6/16/2008 4:46:23 AM)

You might try the Royal Navy's fast minelaying cruisers (Abdiel, Manxman are in my CHS 2.08 game as of June '43) for an offensive minefield. These ships have an undamaged top speed of 40kts, so they can get in and out quickly unlike most other minelayers.



hvymtl13 -> RE: Question about offensive surface minelaying (6/16/2008 10:36:14 AM)

I have also had my surface ML TF's laying mines at Truk engaged by CD. Of the three TF's running Mine Laying Operations; One with 4 DM's and 3 DMS, and two with single ML's, only the DM's were engaged. And the only report of the engaement was the audio sound of CD guns firing. No text report. heheh. And of course the splitting of the TF into ships running, and crippled ships creeping back to friendly waters. And get this, my DMS were reported clearing a path through the minefields. :)



castor troy -> RE: Question about offensive surface minelaying (6/16/2008 11:40:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hvymtl13

I have also had my surface ML TF's laying mines at Truk engaged by CD. Of the three TF's running Mine Laying Operations; One with 4 DM's and 3 DMS, and two with single ML's, only the DM's were engaged. And the only report of the engaement was the audio sound of CD guns firing. No text report. heheh. And of course the splitting of the TF into ships running, and crippled ships creeping back to friendly waters. And get this, my DMS were reported clearing a path through the minefields. :)



whenever you inlcude DM or MSW into TFs they try to clear mines when in a hex with enemy mines... no matter what TF type it is.



John Lansford -> RE: Question about offensive surface minelaying (6/16/2008 7:17:05 PM)

I've mined both Rabaul and Kwajalein using DM's without getting any CD fire directed at the ships.  I did NOT have any minesweepers in the TF, only DM's and DD's.



Procrustes -> RE: Question about offensive surface minelaying (6/16/2008 7:26:43 PM)

quote:

rk2: AI gets fairly upset about ML missions. Had I provided air cover for the ML TFs (which I did not) a fair share of bombers



The ML's draw so much attention that I use them as singles - wait for bad weather and send one at full speed towards a harbor or passage I want to mine.



engineer -> RE: Question about offensive surface minelaying (6/16/2008 9:50:02 PM)

My experience is that the mine layers seldom get CD fire and often get air strikes. 

If you're playing as the Allies, your bombers have enough capacity to lay down a pretty good minefield with aerial mines. 



Shark7 -> RE: Question about offensive surface minelaying (6/16/2008 10:35:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

Anytime [:)]

By the way, isn't Fishbed the NATO code name for the MiG 21?


Correct. Also the code name for the J-7 (Chinese copy of the MiG-21).



Chris21wen -> RE: Question about offensive surface minelaying (6/16/2008 10:51:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

You might try the Royal Navy's fast minelaying cruisers (Abdiel, Manxman are in my CHS 2.08 game as of June '43) for an offensive minefield. These ships have an undamaged top speed of 40kts, so they can get in and out quickly unlike most other minelayers.


I joined the RN in 1965 and the Manxman was still in commission. It was still the fastest ship in the fleet, and I think 39kts was her tops then. And you can sneak them in and get clear which is exactly what there were designed to do.



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