Need advice on making AT feel less like work and more like fun. (Full Version)

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mgdpublic -> Need advice on making AT feel less like work and more like fun. (6/19/2008 7:28:28 PM)

Got the game a few weeks ago and haven't played in the past few days because, so far, it's seems a lot more like work than fun. Between figuring out how much supply everyone needs, keeping adequate staffing, figuring out how many trucks I need to keep my units motorized, and remembering who is attached to what HQ, I feel more like a book keeper than a general. Every turn seems like 10% strategy, 90% book keeping. The statistics page isn't really adequate and I'm wondering how others manage the accounting aspect. Any ideas?



seille -> RE: Need advice on making AT feel less like work and more like fun. (6/19/2008 8:03:17 PM)

This is called game depth and most guy´s here like it.
Without that AT would not be a challenge to play. It´s up to you to look at all this and win or don´t
do it and lose most games.
Of course all that managing is not always funny, but it is part of the game and you need to do it to be successful.

Routing production and chain of command is one of the things in this game i like the most.
I´m probably more a manager than a general [:D]
Or in German: Erbsenzaehler....



rickier65 -> RE: Need advice on making AT feel less like work and more like fun. (6/19/2008 8:50:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mgdpublic

Got the game a few weeks ago and haven't played in the past few days because, so far, it's seems a lot more like work than fun. Between figuring out how much supply everyone needs, keeping adequate staffing, figuring out how many trucks I need to keep my units motorized, and remembering who is attached to what HQ, I feel more like a book keeper than a general. Every turn seems like 10% strategy, 90% book keeping. The statistics page isn't really adequate and I'm wondering how others manage the accounting aspect. Any ideas?


There are some scenarios where you don't have to manage production or supply. I don't generally enjoy managing production, although I don't mind managing supply (although I'm not very good at it).

Have you played North Africa, Ardennes, Salerno (from scenario bank)?

Rick



SSFSX17 -> RE: Need advice on making AT feel less like work and more like fun. (6/19/2008 10:45:38 PM)

After playing for a while, I've pretty much memorized the weights, carrying capacities, etc. For supply, I'm usually able to quickly calculate how much more I need to produce by looking at the HQs' stocked, real and out-requested quantities. Figuring out who is attached to which HQ is easily accomplished by manually setting the colors of each HQ.



Herode_2 -> RE: Need advice on making AT feel less like work and more like fun. (6/19/2008 11:22:33 PM)

Agreed. Each HQ has his own customizable color and all his units have the same color bar. Moreover, the units are close to their HQ for obvious reasons such as supply distribuition and HQ Bonus in combat, with the exception of naval / air units.

The supply thing never caused me any headache. I use simple patterns such as : a few root HQ receive supplies, most often a unique root HQ. Then the supply travels along the hierarchy tree (and the roads) using the trucks & so on. I am liberal on trucks since mobility and the ability to S/T units are critical in most games.

Same thoughts about staff : I aim staff points > 100%, this allows HQs to receive reinforcement without loosing HQ bonuses. Hence, I buy HQ points by anticipation. This is still interesting because staff gains XP when their attached units fight. Then, I prefer to have more staff than needed and optimize XP allocation, than to buy inexperienced staff "just in time".

I think AT is very intuitive & can be accurately played very fast.



tweber -> RE: Need advice on making AT feel less like work and more like fun. (6/20/2008 3:09:11 AM)

I think keeping the units organized requires a bit of discipline.  In most of the Russia scenarios, the German Army is pretty bunched up at the start and it is pretty easy to get hopelessly disorganized from the start.  The key is to be careful in the first few turns with how you route your units and think a few turns ahead where you want them to go.  Once you do this, you might forgo a short term opportunity if it will have longer term implications on your positioning.  Positioning units is very important.  An inexpensive group of paras in the right spot, for example, can win a game. 

As for supply, think of tree.  You can do quick checks on the leaves to see they are getting enough.  I also centralize supply and distribute production. (E.g., send all supply to the top level HQ and all production to various front line HQs).  This makes the game (and not you) do most of the work.  As for command structure, only staff in the front line HQ count so you do not need any in any HQs about the first level.  Also, I would only recommend 2 levels of HQ unless you need an additional HQ for supply bridging.  Some of the Russia scenarios have 3 levels (army, front, and top level).  The middle level is window dressing.

Finally, there are a range of scenarios with different depths.  You should find something that is simple enough.  North Africa is a good starter. 




Jeffrey H. -> RE: Need advice on making AT feel less like work and more like fun. (6/20/2008 9:43:23 PM)

The game is heavy on admin at first, too many clicks to boot. But after a little while, it does take some time, you'll find yourself delegating the minutae to "autopilot" mode, (meaning I don't think about it specifically, it's part of the gameplay in general) and fousing more on strat level stuff. It takes time and its kind of a burden to get to that place, but it's worth it when you do get there.

The counter icons are fairly descriptive as someone above pointed out, you can look at the yellow bar on the counters and get a quick idea of how your supply and readiness are working, also there is a "supply layer" button that you can use for an overlay of supply stats that quickls shows you were the trouble spots are.

I guess I don't try to get everything exactly right, I just get it close, you know, "I need a few trucks here and dang it I don't have enough ships in this HQ" and sort of fumble through.



emcgman -> RE: Need advice on making AT feel less like work and more like fun. (6/20/2008 11:30:48 PM)

Initially, you want to spend the time and effort to learn how to read everything on the main game screen. All the abbreviations/values/what they stand for - everything. Once you can read the main screen at a glance, this is the key to knowing your current status with supply, input/output, supply range, unit readiness/movement, etc.

Remember, supply is relatively easy to produce in abundance, just make sure your main HQ has good stock of supply, and that your sub HQ's are connected, and then it's mostly automatic. The beauty is that the supply chain is detailed from source to destination, to where strategic planning and maneuvering come into play.

Also, you mentioned the Statistics screen. Based on your comment, I'm not going to assume you are aware that the Statistics screen is comprised of several very useful sub-screens.

ie; The `Order of Battle' tab is incredibly useful in keeping a handle on your units and respective HQ's. There is a button at the bottom that will take you to any unit on the main map screen that is selected in the Order of Battle Screen. This is a fantastic feature that is not included in some other well known wargames. At a glance, you can see exactly which HQ covers any given unit. This lets you easily keep track of even the largest forces. Also see the Supply tab for similar info.

Once the previous knowledge is acquired, you can relax and enjoy the fun of strategic maneuvering while gradually learning the depth of unit attack and defense parameters and the various combos of sub formations.

Complete Supply Chain and complete Order of Battle at a glance. Those are the keys to being able to play on `auto pilot', as Jeffrey H put it.



Manus von Olie -> RE: Need advice on making AT feel less like work and more like fun. (6/22/2008 6:43:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mgdpublic

Got the game a few weeks ago and haven't played in the past few days because, so far, it's seems a lot more like work than fun. Between figuring out how much supply everyone needs, keeping adequate staffing, figuring out how many trucks I need to keep my units motorized, and remembering who is attached to what HQ, I feel more like a book keeper than a general. Every turn seems like 10% strategy, 90% book keeping. The statistics page isn't really adequate and I'm wondering how others manage the accounting aspect. Any ideas?

Dear mgdpublic,
Actually, although I understand the game quite well and enjoy it as it is now, I totally agree with you. I think, with the engine of AT we could maybe make another masterfile to play simpler games which would serve as introduction to the normal AT, but also be a good game in itself. I was thinking about putting the good old boardgames into AT, because they weren't so complicated and still really great fun. Unfortunately I'm not in the position at the moment to organise this, although, after 'finishing' the AT Academy, I would like to develop this 'project'. Maybe other people are interested in this project at this moment?
Regards,
Herman.



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