Command & Control tutorial? (Full Version)

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DROregon -> Command & Control tutorial? (7/13/2008 6:30:13 PM)

Does anyone have one? Or, suggest a simple scenario to use?

I must be too dense to understand the manual. I see the Red Flag & can use it, but I'm not sure I'm grasping what else... ???

Can anyone offer a suggestion?

I'm a long time player against the AI, using all the difficult setting except C&C. Thought I'd give it a shot -- learn something new.



junk2drive -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (7/13/2008 6:36:39 PM)

I've wanted to try it for a while, but like you, I'd like some "for dummies" style instruction.



planner 3 -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (7/14/2008 1:54:29 AM)

Goto the SPwaw depot, Go to the "Academy Student Resource Directtory", go to 1st "Sticky", it'd titled "How to Use Command Control", its in PDF format and ???
Good luck



junk2drive -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (7/14/2008 1:57:02 AM)

Depot is slow right now but thanks for the tip.



JEB Davis -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (7/14/2008 4:14:13 AM)

The document he mentioned at the Depot is an excellent piece on C&C.  It's worth it.



junk2drive -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (7/14/2008 4:20:00 AM)

I got it. I tried using the A key recently even though it isn't recommended. Do you use it with C&C?



DROregon -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (7/14/2008 5:23:36 AM)

Thanks.  It've got the Depot write-up too.  It's very similar in info as the manual. 

Appears there is no tutorial available, at least I can't find one.  Any C&C fans out there want to share any tips & tricks?



JEB Davis -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (7/15/2008 1:49:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

I got it. I tried using the A key recently even though it isn't recommended. Do you use it with C&C?

I wouldn't recommend using the A key, the units get all jumbled up as they move and who knows where they'll end up. Eeek!

DROregon,

There was talk of making C&C courses for the Depot Academy and those will likely happen in the future, but there are not any right now.

The best thing I can suggest is just start using C&C all the time, vs the AI in scenarios, vs humans, vs your cat. The more you use it, the more like second nature it will become and you will discover little things along the way. The only time I play without C&C is if my human opponent refuses to [;)]



DROregon -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (7/15/2008 4:33:06 AM)

Thanks, JEB Davis. That' what I've started to do. I've now played one old Wild Bill scenario (# 75, A Deadly Trap) about twenty times. I'm still trying to figure out a few things:

1. Where to set the objective Red Flag for the Higgins Boats? As I lose order points, they stop moving / ferrying back and forth from the beach to the drop-off point.
2. After the Inf Sqd takes the Vic hexes, should they be switched to Defend? I know this will give them a defensive benefit to delay the emeny, but then I can't switch them back to advance to the shore for their turn to escape.

Are these the normal challenges with C&C?



JEB Davis -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (7/15/2008 5:18:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DROregon

Thanks, JEB Davis. That' what I've started to do. I've now played one old Wild Bill scenario (# 75, A Deadly Trap) about twenty times. I'm still trying to figure out a few things:

1. Where to set the objective Red Flag for the Higgins Boats? As I lose order points, they stop moving / ferrying back and forth from the beach to the drop-off point.
2. After the Inf Sqd takes the Vic hexes, should they be switched to Defend? I know this will give them a defensive benefit to delay the emeny, but then I can't switch them back to advance to the shore for their turn to escape.

Are these the normal challenges with C&C?


Wow, I can't ever play a scenario more than once myself [&o]

1. I haven't played that one, but yes, ferrying like that would be a challenge. I would try to pick a hex for the red flag that is roughly 1/2 the boat's movement distance from the beach. Then you can run your boat to the hex just seaward of the flag on turn X, then with one click send it to shore, unload it, then it can go back out to sea toward the flag. Of course, if it gets fired on during that move it will be a problem because it will stop. You will end up burning lots of orders for maneouevers like that.
2. Since switching to defend makes the unit stop and seek cover, it might be a good idea. If you get the whole platoon to their positions and then switch them all to Defend mode using the Plt.Ldr. at once it will only take 3 orders. They will have to stay in Defend until the orders replenish. Yes, these are normal challenges.

One difficulty that frustrates me is a scenario that was designed without any consideration for C&C, with squads scattered all over out of contact with their leaders... and NO radios. Makes me wanna scream! Designers... keep C&C in mind please [:)]



Yava -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (7/15/2008 9:26:47 AM)

Now, this is what I call good and informative posts JEB![:)]



DROregon -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (7/16/2008 4:14:18 AM)

I've going to go experiment, but can you compare/contrast switching the PltLdr to Defend vs. unit by unit?



DROregon -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (7/16/2008 5:14:47 AM)

OK, I can see how to set the stance for the either the formation or unit at the PltLdr. When I had all the units set to Defend, I changed the Ldr stance for the formantion to Advance to a new location. I'm not sure that it changed the stance for all units. They must not have been in contact. I forgot to check that. I think I'm getting the hang iof it.

Question: When a unit in Defend gets suppressed and retreats, does it go towards the Obj Flag or the Scenario Retreat hex?



JEB Davis -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (7/17/2008 2:56:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DROregon

OK, I can see how to set the stance for the either the formation or unit at the PltLdr. When I had all the units set to Defend, I changed the Ldr stance for the formantion to Advance to a new location. I'm not sure that it changed the stance for all units. They must not have been in contact. I forgot to check that. I think I'm getting the hang iof it.

Question: When a unit in Defend gets suppressed and retreats, does it go towards the Obj Flag or the Scenario Retreat hex?

You covered some of this, but I'll say it all for others' sake:

To change the stance of the whole platoon, go into the information screen for the Plt.Ldr. and click "Change this unit only" so it reads "Change whole formation" then click "Stance advance to" so it changes to "Stance Defend". This will take 3 orders no matter how many squads/units/vehicles are in the platoon. *** Before you do any of this, check that all of the squads are in contact with the Plt.Ldr. *** Also important: When you have switched to Defend stance, all units will now be immovable until you switch back to Advance. If you don't have your Plt.Ldr. within 3 hexes of all the squads, you may have a squad out of contact (certainly if it has no radio) and that squad won't get the order when you switch back to Advance.

When a unit in Defend gets suppressed and retreats, it goes toward the map's retreat hex as normal. However, you will see that its stance is automatically changed to Advance and it gets a new objective flag (I think right where it is at when it retreats). Now your Plt.Ldr. has some scared sheep to look after.

Now, to contrast switching stance one unit at a time... It will cost 1 order if the squad is within visual range (3 hexes) of the Plt.Ldr. It will cost 2 orders if in radio contact.

Switching the whole formation at once always costs exactly 3 orders.



DROregon -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (7/17/2008 4:15:38 AM)

Thanks for the answers, and for helping me.

The retreating unit that sets it's own obj hex is a cool challenge. I don't think that was in any write-up!

I can see how C&C adds to the challenge against the AI. I'm going to look for an alternative scenario that was designed for C&C.

Thanks again!



vahauser -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (8/10/2008 4:02:40 AM)

DROregon,

Here are some tips:

1.  Set the objectives of your transport units to a location that is close to, but not quite where you want to unload your cargo.  That way, you can move past your objective, drop off the cargo, and be able to go back the other way without having to change orders.  You can shuttle back and forth using this method.  This also works especially well with barges.  Set your objective in the middle of the river and then shuttle back and forth from one bank to the other without having to expend orders.

2.  An easy way to get infantry-type units to change from defend to advance is to simply load them.  Once you load them, they are automatically changed to advance mode without expending orders.



Five_of_Swords -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (12/2/2008 7:07:38 AM)

Some units seem to get special cc waivers or something. Ive noticed this with snipers. Is this true for all recon units or just some in particular? how does it work?



JEB Davis -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (12/3/2008 2:09:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Five_of_Swords

Some units seem to get special cc waivers or something. Ive noticed this with snipers. Is this true for all recon units or just some in particular? how does it work?

The "recon" ability gives free movement in any direction for all recon units. However, you will still need to use their orders to switch back & forth from advance to defend stance.



Major Destruction -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (12/11/2008 3:22:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DROregon

Thanks.  It've got the Depot write-up too.  It's very similar in info as the manual. 

Appears there is no tutorial available, at least I can't find one.  Any C&C fans out there want to share any tips & tricks?


I tried to write a tutorial but it got swamped by the waves of updates to OOB's and such and also there never seemed to be much call for it as everyone seemed to be of the opinion that C&C interfered with the game. [&:]

Personally I like C&C ON and try to always play that way. Unfortunately, scenario designers are not accustomed to the intricacies of the feature.

I made a few scenarios for my proposed tutorial. One was a simple one; you can design it yourself.
Build a small map - not too elaborate - then give the Germans some infantry units; maybe four smallish rifle squads (6-8 men) and one MMG. Place the MMG in a very good defensive position. Give the germans some more small rifle squads to arrive as reinforcements about turn 10.

Now give the Player one British platoon.

The British platoon should be able to defeat the German position by first destroying the MMG and then each German squad in turn using the light mortar - plus supporting rifle fire.

The key is to use the platoon leader to spot for the mortar to suppress, then destroy, the MMG. The platoon continues to destroy each German squad in turn. The British platoon then digs in and defends the single V-hex against the German counter attack.

It is methodical, almost surgical.

In my scenario, I try to accomplish the task without taking any casualties.

If you are interested, I will try to dig out this very old scenario for you.

But the problem is that C&C play depends very much on the Nation and whether you are attacking or not and if you have artillery support or lots of artillery support, etc.

C&C play is great fun. I tried it in online play and it works wonderfully- even with only 3 minutes per turn. SPWAW is a fantastic game and I believe that until you master C&C you have not truly played the game

MD



junk2drive -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (3/3/2010 2:02:36 AM)

JustAToy has completed a set of tutorials and scenarios just for people like me who are interested in C&C but don't have a clue where to start or what button to push.

Watch this space for more details soon.



Alby -> RE: Command & Control tutorial? (3/4/2010 1:13:54 PM)

There is a an entire forum area set up for Command and Control at the Enhanced/North Afrika forum
[:)]



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