RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (Full Version)

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Jeffrey H. -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/8/2008 8:21:08 PM)

Well, over 35 additional turns has to be filled out with something other than retreating West. But, it sure feels like turn 24 was a high water mark. Maybe a Russian 'Bagration' offensive in the center will come and put an end to the Southern AG's sucesses.



seille -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/9/2008 9:25:17 AM)

As the overview George posted shows iīm far away from winning at this point.
I knew it the whole time !
George had more tanks, much more artillery and a very small disadvantage in fighters.
Plus a bigger XP advantage for most of his troops.
Actually i work on changing this, especially for artillery. But it takes time....

Russian turn 25.

I was able to get back Maikop and russian partisans got control over Kharkov.
Nice surprise for me even i know i wonīt keep it for long with 10 scouts.
German army is way to mobile and will attack very soon.

my production:

[image]local://upfiles/25493/934A75A69E6E46D0AB76F145811B078F.jpg[/image]



seille -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/9/2008 9:27:58 AM)

The north and center.
Did some hard attaks int he center this time to stop the german advance.
Think this will cool them down [:)]

[image]local://upfiles/25493/0276A66F7787490BB4216AC24D1AF7FC.jpg[/image]



seille -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/9/2008 9:29:30 AM)

Mostly replacing losses only in the south....

[image]local://upfiles/25493/C550619E2E7E459BADDDBE2C2D4144D1.jpg[/image]



george1972 -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/12/2008 4:24:24 PM)

Turn 26 - November 4, 1942

Winter arrives in early November this year and it is both a blessing and a curse to me. The blessing part is that since most Soviet units are no more mobile as the foot soldiers they consist of, Russian mobility is curtailed, while German troops, being mostly horse-backed or even fully motorized retain much more of their mobility in this weather.

The other blessing is the curtailment of Russian air power, which I'm very happy to be rid off for a few turns in the Northern part of the front.

The curse is of course in the South, where the Romanian army group in the Caucasus is deprived of Luftwaffe support.

Seille's turn was very effective. AG Center was taught a lesson in humility as 4 of its 9 front-line units where virtually destroyed by the Smolensk Front attack. Are the Russian going to push hard against both North and Center? Will there be another Winter Offensive? Or will Seille just build up his army and hit me in the Spring of 1943? These were all questions running through my mind.

[image]local://upfiles/29493/E6FFB28C33574270964784A2F81B2151.jpg[/image]



george1972 -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/12/2008 4:27:17 PM)

On the Northern half of the front, the initiative is now with the Red Army as both German Army Groups withdraw and attempt to establish a defensible winter position.

In the North, the Russian aren't following, which is nice. In the Center, only artillery rounds and air attacks cover the withdrawal.

[image]local://upfiles/29493/D47D425FC78546FAB28ED58D83AD7932.jpg[/image]



george1972 -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/12/2008 4:35:28 PM)

In the South a serious threat has developed against Rostov, where 4 Russian armies are moving towards the city which is not garrisoned by ground troops and hosts all Luftwaffe power in this theater. Only two newly raised "security" divisions and one regular Romanian Corps are in a position to react, which they do.

The good news comes from the Northern edge, where the Russians seem content with maintaining their lines. Apparently they feel not strong enough to push on towards Kharkov.

AG South has completed regrouping between Don and Donetz and starts its push towards the East. A large number of Russian units awaits them in the Don Bend.

AG Romania continues to grow in strength, but so do the Maikop defenders. Their numbers are swelling, so the important thing here is to not let up. (** raises his voice and start shaking his fist **) Only the side with the greatest determination will win this fight!

[image]local://upfiles/29493/E20E5832C6974533A6C4B16CDE6628A5.jpg[/image]



seille -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/12/2008 6:51:46 PM)

Russian turn 26.

[image]local://upfiles/25493/9514F5429D5E4441A892384C7D94C3F3.jpg[/image]



seille -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/12/2008 6:54:37 PM)

In the north i have no problems.....
Germans run away. They call it retreat on prepared positions....

[image]local://upfiles/25493/CC6C68BC76CB413D9BFA82AD7DD34BD7.jpg[/image]



seille -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/12/2008 6:58:09 PM)

The south is in german hands.
I was not able to reenforce as much as needed for a long time
and the germans had only minor losses here during the last turns.
Not a good combination for my forces near Stalingrad and Maikop.
Losing control over both cities isnīt what i would like to see.
But it could happen if i look at the current situation.

[image]local://upfiles/25493/87E1B5288036499B8F23A136F33E4D0F.jpg[/image]



seille -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/12/2008 7:03:21 PM)

The main problem in the south is the loss of the southern Stalingrad defense.
If Germany uses fast units to move into that gap it could result in various bad
situations.
1. They could threat Stalingrad from the south (would speed up the fall of Stalingrad)
2. They could reach Baku very fast which means i would have to install a new frontline there.
3. They could cut my north/south connection, Baku would be isolated....



rickier65 -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/12/2008 7:18:02 PM)


This is quite a nice AAR. The commentary and the screenshots really give us readers a good picture of how this game must have felt.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this progresses.

Thanks!
Rick



TheArchduke -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/13/2008 5:27:43 AM)

Nov 42 and Maikop is lost again and Stalingrad is not in sight. The infantry losses are substantial to the Wehrmacht.

Hmm, but I guess if this AAR continued, george actually drove east from Rostov thereby flanking both Stalingrad and Baku.



seille -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/13/2008 11:39:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheArchduke

Nov 42 and Maikop is lost again and Stalingrad is not in sight. The infantry losses are substantial to the Wehrmacht.

Hmm, but I guess if this AAR continued, george actually drove east from Rostov thereby flanking both Stalingrad and Baku.



Just wait and see [;)]
NEVER forget Georgeīs total air and artillery superiority in the complete south.



TheArchduke -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/13/2008 4:43:03 PM)

I am just a huge sceptic of the whole attack the Caucasus idea in general. There is just too much distance to cover.

Leningrad or Sevastopol are in my opinion vital to take in 41 as it frees up one flank of the german^for '42. Both the Crimea or Leningrad cost 5k production whilst being very easily defensible. So I am thrilled to see how this will work out!:)



seille -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/13/2008 5:09:39 PM)

I fully agree here. Leningrad and Sevastopol are important.
Especially is the whole time a threat to the germans. They canīt feel good with that ity still in my hands.

But much more important for the germans at this stage of the game is to get one of the russian production
in their hands. Murmansk attack failed, same for Moscow, so George now tries to attack the third with the weakest defense.
B A K U.
I can absolutely follow this thinking. However i would have taken Sevastopol earlier.



george1972 -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/13/2008 6:39:05 PM)

I even think that if I had taken Sevastopol in '41, then my general position at this point in the game would have been a hell of a lot better. If held by me for the last 10 turns, Sevastopol would have netted my an additional 50.000 PP's and cost the Russians the same amount, which gives the Germans an overall advantage of 100.000 PP's. With that production, the overall strength of my Army Groups would have been better.

So not taking the city was stupid... As for Murmansk, I never really thought I could take that city and to be honest, I was very surprised by the successes of AG North, but I had no real plan after the capture of Leningrad.

The other factor in this match, is that gradually I was becoming accustomed to Seille's playing style and became less and less intimidated, but instead started to look at situations more objectively and managed to use the forces available to me more effectively than in the beginning of the match. I did however keep over-estimating Russian strength all through the game.



george1972 -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/13/2008 8:43:14 PM)

Germany Turn 27 - November 24, 1942

Light losses this time, but 3 tanks were among them. I need a little boost to my tank production in the near future.


[image]local://upfiles/29493/4B6AEFAC2D9A4C58985BA62B3D36A685.jpg[/image]



george1972 -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/13/2008 8:46:46 PM)

The Northern half of the front sees a lot of movement behind the front but no ground attacks. Near Leningrad, I use my artillery to strike at Seille's artillery, since they managed to reduce the fortress by almost 50% in their last bombardement. After my attack, 4 enemy guns are destroyed and engineers move in to repair the damage.

AG Center uses the same tactic to hit some Russian units in range. The Luftwaffe also shows some activity but Seille has no really juicy targets in range.

[image]local://upfiles/29493/DA3557A747FB4FC8BF4CA99B446FA08E.jpg[/image]



george1972 -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/13/2008 8:49:11 PM)

The Southern half sees the most action as I continue my attacks. The Russian pressure on my Northern flank is increasing though, so things are getting hairy. If that line is broken, there is no reserve until the SS arrive in Kiev.

[image]local://upfiles/29493/FB1F3890FF734B03A12BAB2F4B9F3EDC.jpg[/image]



TheArchduke -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/14/2008 6:17:22 AM)

Nice, a very strong but belated attack. This is really an amazing game.

Also, george always says that he losses production when he lost Kharkov or not gained Sevastopol..
In my games I canīt produce anything with those centers..



Appren -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/14/2008 7:43:26 AM)

It is my understanding that the German production increase after capturing Russian production centres, in the way that the things you build become cheaper. Just start a fresh game and check the cost of units, then load a game in 42' and compare. Not sure if this is the same for all cities, or just some.



TheArchduke -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/14/2008 11:20:56 AM)

Ah, I thought this was the normal scenario increase..



seille -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/14/2008 1:45:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheArchduke

Ah, I thought this was the normal scenario increase..


No, the german production becomes cheaper the more russian cities you get under control.
And vice versa [;)]



seille -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/14/2008 1:47:02 PM)

Russian turn 27

[image]local://upfiles/25493/D9C5C808DD604675BAF6C85D08F38308.jpg[/image]



seille -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/14/2008 1:49:28 PM)

The North

[image]local://upfiles/25493/6AEF4E351FEF4802B14806001FF6CF77.jpg[/image]



seille -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/14/2008 1:51:55 PM)

The South....iīm in trouble there.

[image]local://upfiles/25493/DF2E083942DA42D4BDE72AA629FEF726.jpg[/image]



TheArchduke -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/14/2008 3:26:05 PM)

Quite absurd situation at Sevastopol as the plus of production seems to be tied up there by one infantry corps of George. His defenses the last winter discouraged you too much, I guess.



seille -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/14/2008 3:50:24 PM)

After the game with a complete picture of the situations itīs easy to say [;)]
In fact i had a very strong infantry corps as opponent in a VERY good position and fortified.
Plus the fact George can always throw some planes to this point with a airfield near.
So he would slaughter my defensive units in open terrain and after that get Sevastopol for free !
I never play that short term. I think long term and what could be the result of such a "free crimea"-campaign.
For now i was happy to keep Sevastopol. Sevastopol had no hugh reserves, most of the time it had
to produce the complete supply need plus some reenforcements for the crimea only.
I was not able to waste any troops in useless attacks. I would go the same way again here [:)]
Only difference would be to set the focus 1-2 turns faster to Maikop.



george1972 -> RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns (10/14/2008 4:04:42 PM)

I think this AAR clearly demonstrates how things are often decided differently "in the heat of the moment" and how the mental picture in a player's mind can influence his behavior on the battlefield.



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