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aknaton -> Simpler computer wargames (7/24/2008 6:51:43 AM)

Me and my wargamer friend got to discuss computer wargames after we played an ATS (the Critical Hit boardgame) scenario yesterday.

And I now feel an urge to share my thoughts [;)].

I would like to see "simpler" games. By that I mean games that don't have too many units and that you can play for a couple of hours and feel that you made real progress and not only completed half a turn. And I dont like micromanagement in any way.

I would like to see games with "rules" that are transparent for the human player. Not with a billion factors for every mechanic in the game. All those small factors could be accounted for in a simulation but in a wargame I feel that the system should be cleaner. The rules should still of course premiere players that play with sound tactical/strategic consideration.

I would also like to have the games in 3D representation. Not that I want 3D landscapes but I want the board and game peices to be 3D and I want to be able to zoom in and out seamlessly and position the camera wherever I want. I think that this would make it easier for the human player to get an overview of the game board and situation.

Thanks for listening to my rant. I'll be quiet now.


(And yes, Lock ‘n Load: Heroes of Stalingrad seems really nice.)


/Aknaton
Karlskrona, Sweden



Valkyrie -> RE: Simpler computer wargames (7/24/2008 7:09:52 AM)

Not an unreasonable request.

I have to admit that of all the various simulations that I own, the ones that get played a LOT are the Tiller Battleground and HPS Civil War titles. I can sit down and play them without consciously thinking about the mechanics and can focus purely on the battle or campaign being simulated.

The complex games that require a lot of thinking about the mechanics I experiment with for awhile and then move on to something else. I like games that are huge in scope (HPS ACW Campaign series, for example) but simple in mechanics. Usually, when you have simple mechanics... you get a short game with limited scope that doesn't hold my interest for long.



Grell -> RE: Simpler computer wargames (7/24/2008 12:22:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Valkyrie

Not an unreasonable request.

I have to admit that of all the various simulations that I own, the ones that get played a LOT are the Tiller Battleground and HPS Civil War titles. I can sit down and play them without consciously thinking about the mechanics and can focus purely on the battle or campaign being simulated.

The complex games that require a lot of thinking about the mechanics I experiment with for awhile and then move on to something else. I like games that are huge in scope (HPS ACW Campaign series, for example) but simple in mechanics. Usually, when you have simple mechanics... you get a short game with limited scope that doesn't hold my interest for long.



I too play John Tiller games the most, he is brilliant and his games are great.

Regards,

Greg



WYBaugh -> RE: Simpler computer wargames (7/24/2008 2:23:08 PM)

aknaton,

May not be exactly what you're looking for but Montjoie is a board game converted to the computer.  Excellent graphics, simple rules but very challenging (at least for me!)

Here's more info:  http://ageodus.nexway.com/game-description-Monjoie_-659242.html

Bill



Widell -> RE: Simpler computer wargames (7/24/2008 3:21:20 PM)

You can get these games if you play, for example, smaller scenarios in TOAW, or FOF with a very basic setup.



Kung Karl -> RE: Simpler computer wargames (7/24/2008 5:17:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Valkyrie

I have to admit that of all the various simulations that I own, the ones that get played a LOT are the Tiller Battleground and HPS Civil War titles. I can sit down and play them without consciously thinking about the mechanics and can focus purely on the battle or campaign being simulated.


But doesn't HPS game include a VERY LARGE quintity of units counters to move around therefor taking large time to complete a turn? I always thought john tillers games were very complex?



jnier -> RE: Simpler computer wargames (7/24/2008 7:41:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kung Karl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Valkyrie

I have to admit that of all the various simulations that I own, the ones that get played a LOT are the Tiller Battleground and HPS Civil War titles. I can sit down and play them without consciously thinking about the mechanics and can focus purely on the battle or campaign being simulated.


But doesn't HPS game include a VERY LARGE quintity of units counters to move around therefor taking large time to complete a turn? I always thought john tillers games were very complex?


While this is not true of all Tiller games, in general, I think you are correct. Usually lots of units, and a very high unit density. The original poster would probably not enjoy the Battleground series and its HPS counterpart, given his gripes.

The original poster makes a great point. Computer wargames are, in general, becoming more complex. We see the opposite trend in boardgames, and guess what? Boardgames are becoming more popular again. I think there's a lesson in there somewhere.



Greybriar -> RE: Simpler computer wargames (7/24/2008 8:51:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aknaton

I would like to see "simpler" games.


Reading your post reminded me of SSI's Clash of Steel and its successor Strategic Command from Battlefront and Fury Software.

I don't know if that will give you any ideas, but nostalgia forced to to pay lip service to them. [;)]



Lützow -> RE: Simpler computer wargames (7/24/2008 11:08:19 PM)

Wargames with simple rulesets and advanced graphics would be Theatre of War and Combat Mission 4 par example.



CapnDarwin -> RE: Simpler computer wargames (7/24/2008 11:27:58 PM)

Aknaton,

Check out Flashpoint Germany here at Matrix too and see how that fits into your description.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Simpler computer wargames (7/24/2008 11:32:36 PM)

Also check out:

Commander: Europe at War
Advanced Tactics
Gates of Troy / Spartan / Legion Gold / Chariots of War
Hornet Leader PC
Tin Soldiers: Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar (these are in 3D)

IMHO these are probably our games that are the easiest to learn.

Regards,

- Erik



rickier65 -> RE: Simpler computer wargames (7/24/2008 11:43:45 PM)

Aknoton,

I have to echo Eriks recommendation, at least for Commander, Europe at War. Pretty simple interface, clean map, not too many units, at least comparatively. What we used to call a beer and pretzels game.

I"d check out the forum and look at some screenshots -

Not sure that that Advanced Tactics would fit your needs though, though I think it's a great game. While you can play the small sceanrios pretty easy and get playing quickly, a lot of the scenarios are actually pretty involved with lots of stuff to keep track of - It CAN get pretty involved - But there are some simple scenarios too.


Rick



GJK -> RE: Simpler computer wargames (7/25/2008 4:54:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greybriar


quote:

ORIGINAL: aknaton

I would like to see "simpler" games.


Reading your post reminded me of SSI's Clash of Steel and its successor Strategic Command from Battlefront and Fury Software.

I don't know if that will give you any ideas, but nostalgia forced to to pay lip service to them. [;)]


An AAR from a recent game of Clash of Steel. Excellent game, one of my all time favorites on the computer.



Feltan -> RE: Simpler computer wargames (7/25/2008 5:03:45 AM)

As with many things, complexity is a matter of perspective.

For me, most games available are too simplistic. War in the Pacific is good title for a strategy game that isn't too simplistic.

Recalling the days of paper maps and cardboard counters, I am thrilled that computers can automate so much of the book keeping that made complex manual games a bore.

If I am going to dish out $50 to $100 for a game, I'd like it to hold my attention for more than a week.

Regards,
Feltan



Hentzau -> RE: Simpler computer wargames (7/25/2008 5:41:08 AM)

Battleship Chess at wwwdotapezonedotcom 



Valkyrie -> RE: Simpler computer wargames (7/25/2008 6:10:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kung Karl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Valkyrie

I have to admit that of all the various simulations that I own, the ones that get played a LOT are the Tiller Battleground and HPS Civil War titles. I can sit down and play them without consciously thinking about the mechanics and can focus purely on the battle or campaign being simulated.


But doesn't HPS game include a VERY LARGE quintity of units counters to move around therefor taking large time to complete a turn? I always thought john tillers games were very complex?


Well, the campaign games have a great number and individual scenarios may range in size from small to complex. However, the key is that you really shouldn't be moving units all over the place every turn. If you are advancing to contact, you can move whole commands by placing a high ranking leader at the head of the column and then holding down the ALT key when moving him. All units under his command will follow automatically. I can play through a turn very quickly. As I stated previously, the mechanics are so automatic that I can move a LOT of units very quickly, it's figuring out WHERE you want to move them that takes the time and presents the challenge.

I wouldn't let the number of units deter you from trying one of these. The Battleground packages are a very affordable way to get the whole series of earlier Tiller games with a vast number of battles and scenarios. If you like those, you can try the larger and more complex HPS titles.



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