quote:

ORIGINAL: RayKinStL

Marshall,

Some stuff I'd like to see...

Combat resolution when I enter an area but forget to "move into the city".  Isn't there a way the game can recognize if I have forces in an area where another country has a garrison, and let me decide if I want to assault.  This becomes such a tedious task when you are France moving huge stacks around and have to enter the area, then click back on the stack and enter the city.

In line with cleaning up the interface, is there a way, or can you make a way, such that holding the control button would allow you to select multiple corps (or fleets), and move them together (much in the same way you select multiple files in Windows)?  Also, can you make it so that the little screen that shows all the corps in an area automatically lines them up in order?  Plus, it often doesn't take advantage of the fact that the window can display corps "two high" and forces you to scroll left when the lower portion is empty.

These are jsut little things, but I think they would go a long way to cleaning up the interface.  The control-key multi-select feature would be HUGE and make the game so much easier to play, IMO.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis
2. This is certainly possible but stack movement is explicitly not allowed in land movement (I suspect because of foraging chance effects). This dicsussion has been had before to an end of "no" we should not do this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RayKinStL

I still am not understanding the aversion to stack mvoement.  No one is saying you HAVE to use it.  But when I am marching a stack of 11 corps from Paris to Berlin, only to turn to Vienna after Prussia's surrender, the constant flipping and moving each stack becomes tedious and annoying.  No one say you HAVE to sue stakc movement.  In the naval phase you are not forced to use stack movement.  You could still move individual corps to deal with things such as foraging and depot destruction/conversion.  The point is to give the player options, so that when I am France or Prussia, or whoever, and I have a large stack to mvoe 3-4 spaces, I can do so quickly and painlessly if there is no other menutia involved in said movement. 

Move stack inside/outside city would also solve the problem I bring up, I jsut want some solution to forgetting to siege one city (if I move into multiple areas) and the game skipping the Land Combat phase.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: RayKinStL

I still am not understanding the aversion to stack mvoement.  No one is saying you HAVE to use it.  But when I am marching a stack of 11 corps from Paris to Berlin, only to turn to Vienna after Prussia's surrender, the constant flipping and moving each stack becomes tedious and annoying.  No one say you HAVE to sue stakc movement.  In the naval phase you are not forced to use stack movement.  You could still move individual corps to deal with things such as foraging and depot destruction/conversion.  The point is to give the player options, so that when I am France or Prussia, or whoever, and I have a large stack to mvoe 3-4 spaces, I can do so quickly and painlessly if there is no other menutia involved in said movement. 

Move stack inside/outside city would also solve the problem I bring up, I jsut want some solution to forgetting to siege one city (if I move into multiple areas) and the game skipping the Land Combat phase.

Stack movement can not be used because of the way foraging works. There are forage penalties for a corps moving into and foraging in an area where other corps are already sitting and or moved to that turn.

There is no foraging for naval units hence allowing stack movement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RayKinStL

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: RayKinStL

I still am not understanding the aversion to stack mvoement.  No one is saying you HAVE to use it.  But when I am marching a stack of 11 corps from Paris to Berlin, only to turn to Vienna after Prussia's surrender, the constant flipping and moving each stack becomes tedious and annoying.  No one say you HAVE to sue stakc movement.  In the naval phase you are not forced to use stack movement.  You could still move individual corps to deal with things such as foraging and depot destruction/conversion.  The point is to give the player options, so that when I am France or Prussia, or whoever, and I have a large stack to mvoe 3-4 spaces, I can do so quickly and painlessly if there is no other menutia involved in said movement. 

Move stack inside/outside city would also solve the problem I bring up, I jsut want some solution to forgetting to siege one city (if I move into multiple areas) and the game skipping the Land Combat phase.

Stack movement can not be used because of the way foraging works. There are forage penalties for a corps moving into and foraging in an area where other corps are already sitting and or moved to that turn.

There is no foraging for naval units hence allowing stack movement.

I understand that, but I still do not understand the problem. The game could certainly calculate all this if the player chose to move multiple corps through a land area. In other words, say I have the I II and III french corps. If I move all 3 together to Lille, or if I move I then II then III, what is the overall difference? The game will still calculate which corps moved through which areas. Movement points are still used up in the same way. How could moving one corps, as opposed to 3 or 8 or whatever number change the way the game calculates things, assuming the game is programmed to calculate a multicorp movement as individual stacks? In other words, the stack movement would be nothing more than window dressing. On the back end, the game could still move the corps individually, to maintain all existing rules, but on the interface, the player would see the ease of selecting multiple corps and moving them where ever they desired. Just because you are seeing multiple corps moved together, for the sake of time and convenience, doesn't mean the game has to CALCULATE the movement as a stack move.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmer

You can forage the first corps at an advantage (unless the enemy already has 2 or more corps present).

I don't think that's the real problem, though. The real problem is most likely that the presence of a corps is noted in the database for the land area (or city). So, there's no construct that has "Nappy's Grande Armee" (the 6 corps with Nappy), for instance. It would have to be coded.

However, it should be possible. But, despite that, there's another problem: One almost never moves an entire stack of corps. So, the feature would only very rarely get used.

Now, IF there were a pop-up for stack movement (for land OR naval) that let you pick and choose the corps you want to move, that would solve this problem. But, coding that might not be trivial.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edfactor

Actually a stack movement option would be very nice.
You would move and forage with a couple corps first if you like - then pick up the rest of the stack and move them all - and it doesn't even matter if your paying for supply as then there would be no forage rolls anyway.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: RayKinStL

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: RayKinStL

I still am not understanding the aversion to stack mvoement.  No one is saying you HAVE to use it.  But when I am marching a stack of 11 corps from Paris to Berlin, only to turn to Vienna after Prussia's surrender, the constant flipping and moving each stack becomes tedious and annoying.  No one say you HAVE to sue stakc movement.  In the naval phase you are not forced to use stack movement.  You could still move individual corps to deal with things such as foraging and depot destruction/conversion.  The point is to give the player options, so that when I am France or Prussia, or whoever, and I have a large stack to mvoe 3-4 spaces, I can do so quickly and painlessly if there is no other menutia involved in said movement. 

Move stack inside/outside city would also solve the problem I bring up, I jsut want some solution to forgetting to siege one city (if I move into multiple areas) and the game skipping the Land Combat phase.

Stack movement can not be used because of the way foraging works. There are forage penalties for a corps moving into and foraging in an area where other corps are already sitting and or moved to that turn.

There is no foraging for naval units hence allowing stack movement.

I understand that, but I still do not understand the problem. The game could certainly calculate all this if the player chose to move multiple corps through a land area. In other words, say I have the I II and III french corps. If I move all 3 together to Lille, or if I move I then II then III, what is the overall difference? The game will still calculate which corps moved through which areas. Movement points are still used up in the same way. How could moving one corps, as opposed to 3 or 8 or whatever number change the way the game calculates things, assuming the game is programmed to calculate a multicorp movement as individual stacks? In other words, the stack movement would be nothing more than window dressing. On the back end, the game could still move the corps individually, to maintain all existing rules, but on the interface, the player would see the ease of selecting multiple corps and moving them where ever they desired. Just because you are seeing multiple corps moved together, for the sake of time and convenience, doesn't mean the game has to CALCULATE the movement as a stack move.

I don't think you understand.

It's not about MOVEMENT, it's about FORAGING. Movement points could easily be gotten around BUT FORAGING (this means supplying the moving corps) would not be.

I suppose that if you knew you weren't going to forage any of those forces OR maybe if you choose to move as a stack you wouldn't have the option to forage any of those units, then that would be possible; HOWEVER (and a BIG HOWEVER) that brings in a whole new ball of wax, such that the computer would have to automatically calculate where you could move that the supply would be paid for. This isn't a problem if a corps has to forage since each spot on the entire map has a forage point value. ALSO, now the computer has to take into account which depot you want to use (should it pick automatically or should you somehow be allowed to set a priority, etc, etc...) AND the computer has to now make sure that you do not remove that depot.

All of this can ALSO be gotten around simply by letting the computer choose which two corps "virtually" moved to the spot first, since the first has no penalty, the second -1 penalty and the others -2 penalty (I believe I remember correctly). The PROBLEM here is that how many of us want to trust the computer to do this? NOT ME!! I don't want the computer picking my calvary to move last.. OR DO I? What about guard corps?

Bottom line is that it's too situational and player dependent to implement this, it's simply is not cost effective from a development standpoint in my opinion.

THEN, there are those things Jimmer has mentioned, but I still believe the above reasons to be the primary reasons.

So you see, it has NOTHING to do with movement has you mention in your post and EVERYTHING to do with paying for supply.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RayKinStL

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmer

You can forage the first corps at an advantage (unless the enemy already has 2 or more corps present).

I don't think that's the real problem, though. The real problem is most likely that the presence of a corps is noted in the database for the land area (or city). So, there's no construct that has "Nappy's Grande Armee" (the 6 corps with Nappy), for instance. It would have to be coded.

However, it should be possible. But, despite that, there's another problem: One almost never moves an entire stack of corps. So, the feature would only very rarely get used.

Now, IF there were a pop-up for stack movement (for land OR naval) that let you pick and choose the corps you want to move, that would solve this problem. But, coding that might not be trivial.

A pop-up should not be necessary. And when I say stack movement, I don't necessarily mean every corps in a stack. The feature I would like to see most could apply to Naval and Land. Image this is how it works....

When looking at the screen, you select the land area with the corps in it. In the window that shows the corps occupying that area, you could then click on the corps you would like to move together. So let's say I am in Paris. Let's say the 1st through the 10th are full, as well as all4 cavalry, and the Guard. After declaring war on Austria, I want to send a force there. I click on Paris. I see all the forces. I click on the I and it highlights green. I do the same for the II, which also highlights green. I do this for the III, IV, IC, IIC, and Guard. Now I see 7 of my corps are highlighted with a green border. When I click on "Metz", the program moves the corps IN THE ORDER I clicked on them. Now on the screen, I simply see the entire stack move. However, in the background, the I completes it's movement. Then the II. Then the III. The IV. The IC. The IIC. And finally the Guard.

Nothing has changed about how the game calculates anything. The corps stillt echnically moved one at a time, but I just saved a minute from having to click on each of the individual corps I want to move. Is a minute a lot of time? No. But when I am doing this every turn, and flying through turns as quickly as possible, it adds up. All you would need to program is a multi-select feature, which already exists somewhat, because when you buy re-inforcement corps, you can select multiple corps that were purchased (or leaders, fleets, etc..), rather than having to select those one at a time. Since they obviously know how to program a multi select already, you simply make a rule, which is stated in your handbook, that multi-selecting corps for combined movement will move the corps one by one in the order they were highlighted. Now of course this applies mostly to land forces and land movement, because mvoing like this in Naval could be detrimental, given the rules for interception. I agree that a true STACK movement, by the literal meaning of the phrase only makes sense for Naval, but when I say stack movement for land, I simply am discussing a way to streamline the interface for land movement and reduce clicking back and forth over and over, and thus wasted time. If it was understood that doing a multi-corp stack movement calculated moves based on individual corps moving the clicked spaces in the order of how the corps were highlighted, this should not be a hard programming issue which would greatly improve the interface and make the game much more enjoyable, in my opinion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RayKinStL


Read my reply to Jimmer (which I apparently opsted while you were replying to us, so you may have missed it). Simply coding the multi-select movement so that it calculates the moves individually, based on the order the corps were selected in, resolves all your issues, while still maintaining the clean interface of streamling large stack movements. Do you disagree with this?

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: RayKinStL

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmer

You can forage the first corps at an advantage (unless the enemy already has 2 or more corps present).

I don't think that's the real problem, though. The real problem is most likely that the presence of a corps is noted in the database for the land area (or city). So, there's no construct that has "Nappy's Grande Armee" (the 6 corps with Nappy), for instance. It would have to be coded.

However, it should be possible. But, despite that, there's another problem: One almost never moves an entire stack of corps. So, the feature would only very rarely get used.

Now, IF there were a pop-up for stack movement (for land OR naval) that let you pick and choose the corps you want to move, that would solve this problem. But, coding that might not be trivial.

A pop-up should not be necessary. And when I say stack movement, I don't necessarily mean every corps in a stack. The feature I would like to see most could apply to Naval and Land. Image this is how it works....

When looking at the screen, you select the land area with the corps in it. In the window that shows the corps occupying that area, you could then click on the corps you would like to move together. So let's say I am in Paris. Let's say the 1st through the 10th are full, as well as all4 cavalry, and the Guard. After declaring war on Austria, I want to send a force there. I click on Paris. I see all the forces. I click on the I and it highlights green. I do the same for the II, which also highlights green. I do this for the III, IV, IC, IIC, and Guard. Now I see 7 of my corps are highlighted with a green border. When I click on "Metz", the program moves the corps IN THE ORDER I clicked on them. Now on the screen, I simply see the entire stack move. However, in the background, the I completes it's movement. Then the II. Then the III. The IV. The IC. The IIC. And finally the Guard.

Nothing has changed about how the game calculates anything. The corps stillt echnically moved one at a time, but I just saved a minute from having to click on each of the individual corps I want to move. Is a minute a lot of time? No. But when I am doing this every turn, and flying through turns as quickly as possible, it adds up. All you would need to program is a multi-select feature, which already exists somewhat, because when you buy re-inforcement corps, you can select multiple corps that were purchased (or leaders, fleets, etc..), rather than having to select those one at a time. Since they obviously know how to program a multi select already, you simply make a rule, which is stated in your handbook, that multi-selecting corps for combined movement will move the corps one by one in the order they were highlighted. Now of course this applies mostly to land forces and land movement, because mvoing like this in Naval could be detrimental, given the rules for interception. I agree that a true STACK movement, by the literal meaning of the phrase only makes sense for Naval, but when I say stack movement for land, I simply am discussing a way to streamline the interface for land movement and reduce clicking back and forth over and over, and thus wasted time. If it was understood that doing a multi-corp stack movement calculated moves based on individual corps moving the clicked spaces in the order of how the corps were highlighted, this should not be a hard programming issue which would greatly improve the interface and make the game much more enjoyable, in my opinion.

You still have to click on every corps "in the box" once, so you are only saving time on the back end of the move. It's hardly a minute, it's more like 5-10 seconds. It's really not worth the development time.

If this game was perfect and Marshall still wanted to tweak some stuff, then I would probably agree with you, but there is still so much wrong with this game that 5-10 second speedup ONLY when you are moving large stacks from one place to another place just doesn't seem worth it to me.