Can a TF size be too big? (Full Version)

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AirGriff -> Can a TF size be too big? (7/26/2008 4:05:51 PM)

Just wondering if a TF can be too big for the game to handle properly. Examples: 60 barges in a TF or 100 AK's in a supply convoy.

I've attacked a large TF with 60 or more barges in it. It seems to me the PT's don't do all that well, but then maybe that's just bad die rolls.

If a surface group or air attack hit a 100 ship convoy, would the affects be the same as a more normal sized TF of 15 or so?

How about subs? Would that affect a sub attack? I suspect not, but I don't know.

Any input would be much appreciated.



wild_Willie2 -> RE: Can a TF size be too big? (7/28/2008 6:18:08 AM)

It does not matter how big a TF is, it only gives problems with animating the battle, 100 ships can't be displayed.....



John Lansford -> RE: Can a TF size be too big? (7/28/2008 12:02:01 PM)

Having multiple subs in a TF doesn't do anything for them, other than increase the chance they'll get detected.  In fact, having multiple subs in the HEX increases the chance for all of their detection, and only slightly increases the chance for them to find/attack a ship.



F6frc -> RE: Can a TF size be too big? (7/29/2008 4:50:43 AM)

To me it never seems as though large TF are the way to go. I'd rather have multiple TF following each other than one big one.



Alfred -> RE: Can a TF size be too big? (7/29/2008 9:58:01 AM)

The first 15 ships in a Task Force contribute 100% of their AA when defending against enemy air strikes.  The 16th ship then contributes less than 100% of its AA firepower, the 17th ship contributes less than the 16th ship and so on.  Thus having more than 15 ships in a TF increases the aggregate AA firepower but reduces the average amount of AA firepower per ship.

Alfred



Yamato hugger -> RE: Can a TF size be too big? (7/29/2008 10:54:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Having multiple subs in a TF doesn't do anything for them, other than increase the chance they'll get detected. In fact, having multiple subs in the HEX increases the chance for all of their detection, and only slightly increases the chance for them to find/attack a ship.


Actually this is wrong. Having multiple subs in a TF does increase their chance of finding a target but does not increase chance of being detected significantly. Multiple sub TFs in a hex DOES increase the chances of all of them being spotted, but put them all in 1 TF and they wont. Only 1 sub in the TF will attack or be attacked, but they all contribute, so keep an eye on your sub TFs and when the flagship is low on torps, rotate it out of the TF.

I personally operate my subs in 3 ship groups.



John Lansford -> RE: Can a TF size be too big? (7/29/2008 2:04:11 PM)

I've seen the same sub make attacks in consecutive phases, sometimes against the same ship.  The attacks came so close together that I at first thought the sub may have made two attacks in one phase.  Will having more than one sub in a TF increase the number of attacks (say, if two TF's entered a hex with a two sub TF in it), or will only one sub out of the TF attack and the others just search?



engineer -> RE: Can a TF size be too big? (7/30/2008 8:07:26 PM)

If it comes to a surface action there is a similar effect to the AA item mentioned above with the combat effectiveness of the very large TF's declining by quite a bit.  I've seen TF's with two Japanese capital ships fight like tigers against 4-6 allied capital ships, but experience probably confounded the results.  I typically keep my offensive TF's down to 8-12 ships if surface action is planned.  There is a hard limit of 25 ships for air combat TF's. 



VSWG -> RE: Can a TF size be too big? (7/30/2008 8:33:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: engineer

I've seen TF's with two Japanese capital ships fight like tigers against 4-6 allied capital ships,

It's called the "Tom Hunter effect". There's a thread about it in the "List of Must Read Threads".



John Lansford -> RE: Can a TF size be too big? (7/30/2008 9:23:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG


quote:

ORIGINAL: engineer

I've seen TF's with two Japanese capital ships fight like tigers against 4-6 allied capital ships,

It's called the "Tom Hunter effect". There's a thread about it in the "List of Must Read Threads".


I intercepted an IJN surface TF of one CA and a DD headed for Rangoon with a RN TF made up of 3 CA's, 4 CL's and five DD's. That was one of the easiest engagements I've ever seen; the IJN ships were quickly sunk with little damage to any of my ships.



Yamato hugger -> RE: Can a TF size be too big? (7/31/2008 2:45:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I've seen the same sub make attacks in consecutive phases, sometimes against the same ship. The attacks came so close together that I at first thought the sub may have made two attacks in one phase. Will having more than one sub in a TF increase the number of attacks (say, if two TF's entered a hex with a two sub TF in it), or will only one sub out of the TF attack and the others just search?


One sub will attack for all, thats why you have to keep an eye on the number of torps it has. When it is empty, it will take the whole TF home. This is the point you rotate that sub out and drive on. When I pull 1 out, I send another from port to join it so ideally I have 1 going home, 1 going to patrol, and 2 on patrol at any given time.



VSWG -> RE: Can a TF size be too big? (8/1/2008 3:24:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

One sub will attack for all, thats why you have to keep an eye on the number of torps it has. When it is empty, it will take the whole TF home.

Which sub determines when the TF will return: a random sub, the flag ship, the sub with the lowest ID,... ?



VSWG -> RE: Can a TF size be too big? (8/1/2008 3:27:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford


quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG


quote:

ORIGINAL: engineer

I've seen TF's with two Japanese capital ships fight like tigers against 4-6 allied capital ships,

It's called the "Tom Hunter effect". There's a thread about it in the "List of Must Read Threads".


I intercepted an IJN surface TF of one CA and a DD headed for Rangoon with a RN TF made up of 3 CA's, 4 CL's and five DD's. That was one of the easiest engagements I've ever seen; the IJN ships were quickly sunk with little damage to any of my ships.

The "Tom Hunter Effect" doesn't guarantee a victory by the smaller force, it just makes smaller combat TFs unrealistically more efficient than larger SC TFs.



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