Operational losses!!! (Full Version)

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Dora09 -> Operational losses!!! (7/26/2008 7:33:02 PM)

Hello-
I am playing a PBEM (CHS 155) as the Japanese. This is only my second PBEM (my first was stock and my opponent shelved the game after Feb 42). It is now mid Feb 1942 in my current PBEM and ever since Jan 1st I've been racking up an unacceptable level operational losses. In Jan I lost about 40 Fighters and 2 LB to A2A but I lost close to 100 Fighters to operational losses alone! My esteemed Allied opponent would be best off just letting me fly CAP all over the place and loose my fighters to breakdowns! ~5-6 A6M2s a day at times. I am not overloading my AFs and I always have more than enough aviation support and the pilots are 75-85 av exp. The only thing I can think of is that I am flying a lot of long range CAP covering transports, warships and bases. Does the range in LR CAP affect Op losses? I've always noticed that allied op losses are less than Japanese, and that the Ki43s, Ki27 and Ki57II Transports are particularly prone to these losses, but now my Zeros are succumbing now too. I've searched the forum and have had no luck.



niceguy2005 -> RE: Operational losses!!! (7/26/2008 7:57:50 PM)

Japan has much higher op loss rates in my expereince.  Also, yes, things like range matter very much.  So does weather, fatigue and probably leadership and experience.  Also, airfield size probably matters as well. 



rockmedic109 -> RE: Operational losses!!! (7/26/2008 8:10:57 PM)

Some of these Ops losses might be damaged planes that did not make it back home.  If you are playing the Japanese, then you are on the attack and thus will have higher Ops and AA losses. 



Feinder -> RE: Operational losses!!! (7/26/2008 8:18:21 PM)

In my -observation- the things that affect ops losses the most are (in order of importance)
1.  Fatigue
2.  Durability
3.  Weather

Now, lots of things affect fatigue. 
Greater range means greater fatigue means greater ops losses.
Greater "intensity" of operations (flying every day, instead of every other day), means greater fatigue means greater ops losses.
LRCAP seems to amplify fatigue: flying LRCAP over a TF just 3 hexes a way for two turns will stick you with 25 - 30 fatigue, and thus greater ops losses.  I never fly LRCAP over a TF 2 turns in a row because the fagtigue litterally kills you.

It seems to be that the durability of the AC has a pretty strong effect on whether the plane falls apart after a long mission or damage.  Allied planes are generally more durable, so as Japan, you're just on the short stick for this.

Weather it does affect your ops losses, but generally nothing is so crucial as fatigue.

On the slight up-side, few ops losses actually kill the pilot (unlike a2a loss).

To minimize ops losses.

1.  Don't fly every day.
2.  Make shorter legs on transfers, and don't strike on turn after transfer.
3.  Go eascy on LRCAP, and otherwise dont fly same squadron two days in a row.



Dora09 -> RE: Operational losses!!! (7/26/2008 8:26:08 PM)

Thanks for that detailed run down-
I do go kind of overboard on CAP but i am afraid to leave TF without air cover (In my first PBEM I lost Mogami in the first week because I had too few planes on CAP and some Swordfish slipped through so I've been parinoid ever since). As you know with Ki43Ibs to be effective against Hurris and P40s one at least must have numerical superiority. But, yeah I never give my boys a break! I guess I should rest more often. I usually run them until they are below 70 morale and then rest them until they are up to 80 or more. But as long as they are over 70 I keep them in the air. I guess that is not the way to go.



Feinder -> RE: Operational losses!!! (7/26/2008 8:35:20 PM)

I actually don't pay that much attention to morale.  Fatigue is more critical for me.

15 or less is ok.
20 - 25 I usually stand down if possible.  I will use on combat mission in a pinch, but prefer not.
30+ usually best to give the guys 3 - 4 days rest.

Also be advised that replacement pilots arrive with about 20 fatigue, so generally good to not use a sqdn that draws replacements on teh same turn.

-F-



khyberbill -> RE: Operational losses!!! (7/26/2008 8:48:00 PM)

I am the "esteemed" foe and the truth is that I have added a cloaking device [&o] to our RNZAF Brewster B339-E Buffalo Fighters. We are also trying to backfit the cloaking device to our Fairy Swordfish Mark I's. Soon ships will be sinking and showing up as operational losses as well. This will puzzle my esteemed foe and cause him to make mistakes as he searches for answers. The headlines in Wellington will read...Cloaked Fairy Sinks Ships.



Dora09 -> RE: Operational losses!!! (7/26/2008 8:57:12 PM)

HaHa khyberbill.
Stealth Buffalos LOL!
Haven't I already made enough mistakes?



rominet -> RE: Operational losses!!! (7/26/2008 9:01:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

On the slight up-side, few ops losses actually kill the pilot (unlike a2a loss).



I don't completely agree if you are speaking about japanese.
I remark that when i have an ops losse, there is about 1/2 chance that
the pilot disappear with the plane. I said "disappear" because i am not sure
that he is really killed. The reason is that relatively often, some days or weeks
after, the air group suddenly has 1 more pilot than aircraft. So, i supposed (perhaps i am wrong) that the pilot was WIA (without appearing in the box if he has no victory) and now, he is safe and is going back to its origins air groups.



khyberbill -> RE: Operational losses!!! (7/26/2008 9:55:03 PM)

I thought once a pilot was listed as WIA or MIA that he didnt come back. I read that in another thread. And now I cant ask Bob.



rominet -> RE: Operational losses!!! (7/26/2008 10:06:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

I thought once a pilot was listed as WIA or MIA that he didnt come back. I read that in another thread. And now I cant ask Bob.


No, sorry, when a pilot is WIA, he has a good chance to come back.
When he is MIA, it is very rare.
I remenbered once Boyington was WIA, and he stays in that state during 3 weeks.
Afterwards, he rejoins the AVG safe and he died 3 days after.[:(]



Feinder -> RE: Operational losses!!! (7/27/2008 4:43:45 AM)

I suppose there might be some very small chance in game for an MIA to come back in game.  But a pilot that is listed as "shot down and captured" is MIA in game.  And I've never seen MIA return.  If they do, that's great, but the chances would certainly be very slim (if at all); and by observation (and thus subjective), I've never see it happen.

-F-



F6frc -> RE: Operational losses!!! (7/29/2008 4:56:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rominet

quote:

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

I thought once a pilot was listed as WIA or MIA that he didnt come back. I read that in another thread. And now I cant ask Bob.


No, sorry, when a pilot is WIA, he has a good chance to come back.
When he is MIA, it is very rare.
I remenbered once Boyington was WIA, and he stays in that state during 3 weeks.
Afterwards, he rejoins the AVG safe and he died 3 days after.[:(]




Same thing happened to me, but he lived about 2 weeks, racked up at least 10 more kills, exp94, and was the KIA. at that point he was tops in kills, and probably top 10 in exp. That really sucked.



Dora09 -> RE: Operational losses!!! (7/29/2008 4:37:15 PM)

I had one of my aces just disappear from the top pilot list, no KIA, MIA or WIA. I assume he is KIA but it would be nice to have confirmation. Is this typical? FOW? It would be nice if he returned[:)] he was my first ace.



Feinder -> RE: Operational losses!!! (7/29/2008 6:39:41 PM)

I think with 5 kills they are permanently on the list, but I'm not sure.  Somebody with 3 kills that goes KIA will disappear, but I *thought* that 5 stayed on the list.  Either -

a.  I'm wrong, and you need more than 5 kills to earn a perma-spot on the roster, dead or not.
b.  He got eaten by some version of the leader-bug (where pilots disappear).  Not saying this is the case, or have every heard of it, but it wouldn't be the strangest thing I've heard in WitP.
c.  If he's Allied, I think they have random chance of being roated out after 100 missions (whereas Japan flies until you die).  Frankly, I hate this feature, because you don't actually see any benfit from losing your top pilots this way, but it is, what it is.

-F-



Dora09 -> RE: Operational losses!!! (7/29/2008 7:53:18 PM)

Thanks Feinder.

Well, what I can tell you is that he had 5 kills, Japanese, and was not the leader.
Strange, well I geuss I can just say he died of dysentery in the field...
Can you loose pilots on the ground to bombardments (air, sea or land)?
maybe he was killed on the ground.



Yamato hugger -> RE: Operational losses!!! (7/29/2008 8:07:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dora09

I had one of my aces just disappear from the top pilot list, no KIA, MIA or WIA. I assume he is KIA but it would be nice to have confirmation. Is this typical? FOW? It would be nice if he returned[:)] he was my first ace.


I have seen this also, and I have seen them return. I *think* the game has a pilot rotation thing in it that rotates them (probably to "yet to arrive" squadrons). Both sides did rotate their pilots in this manner in the real war, and its likely its in the game as well.



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