How do you play this game? (Full Version)

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panzers -> How do you play this game? (8/1/2008 3:07:44 AM)

I have read the manual 3 times, played the tutorial( what little information there is) and all the training games and I have no idea how to play the game. How the hell do you play this thing. There is no information at all about how to actually play it. Like the sea training battle. How are you supposed to capture the enemy port? I am very frustrated. Looks like a good game but you can't play what you don't understand. can I get some help here?



AZKGungHo -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/1/2008 5:13:09 AM)

I think a good place to start are the AAR's and other posts here. You'll learn a lot and it'll get you into the swing of things in no time!



panzers -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/1/2008 6:56:37 PM)

This game is completely unplayable. How in the hell are you people knowing how to play this piece of crap? I can't upgrade and when I change to political points I get no fuel for my ships. What kind of game is this? What do you see in this game. This is bullshit. Does anyone even care to show me how to play, since clearly the rules don't. It says you need 80pp to upgrade to cruiser II which I have and I have 100 exp points, yet there is no option in the game to upgrade.



JMass -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/1/2008 7:10:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: panzers
What kind of game is this?


This is a wargame, if you don't know wargames your learning curve could be very steep. In a wargame you must defeat the enemy, how to defeat the enemy is a puzzle to resolve. If you don't play cards you could say "pocker is crap" but best is learning to play cards.



panzers -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/1/2008 7:21:50 PM)

I know very well how to play wargames I have several of them, but when there are no options to do what you need to do, what do you expect me to think?



Barthheart -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/1/2008 7:44:55 PM)

First off your attitude is crap![:@]

Second, slow down and fully explain your problem.

To upgrade ships first they need to be in a port not at sea.

Second, click on the picture of the cruiser you want to upgrade. That will take you to the description page of the cruiser. On the left is a the area to upgrade the cruiser to cruiser II. But you need also to have enough supplies. That area also tells you how many supplies you need.

If this does not describe your problem then post a screen shot so we can better help.

[image]local://upfiles/13114/E50B27F938CA44768913B1F7D101BEEA.jpg[/image]



british exil -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/1/2008 7:48:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: panzers

This game is completely unplayable. How in the hell are you people knowing how to play this piece of crap? I can't upgrade and when I change to political points I get no fuel for my ships. What kind of game is this? What do you see in this game. This is bullshit. Does anyone even care to show me how to play, since clearly the rules don't. It says you need 80pp to upgrade to cruiser II which I have and I have 100 exp points, yet there is no option in the game to upgrade.


You've got to balance the production, ships eat quite alot of supplies, so you can't just produce PP and leave supplies away.
There is a big differnce between PP and exp points.

As already the AAR's help you in a way to understand what is involved in the game.

Try reading this: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1833999

Learning by doing is also a way to learn.
Also asking questions in the forum can help too, but please ask politely otherwise you might be ignored.

Mat



panzers -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/1/2008 9:06:13 PM)

This moght sound stupid, but I was trying to learn these thinfs in the training game. Does that mean that the optionis not there even though I have the PP. And, of course, I was at port. I haven't played anything but the tutoirials and the training game because I'm trying real hard to use them as a learning tool, so Is that my problem? There arn't those type of options?



Herode_2 -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/1/2008 9:08:12 PM)

Hoooooo man, great screenshot. I never noticed that faulty label : "upgrade too" [:D]



british exil -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/1/2008 10:15:08 PM)

Can't help you there mate as I never played the training games.

What you can play is a random game against 1 AI. 1st Tech level turned off. Then you really have to build and upgrade.
You start off with a HQ, from there off you decide what you feel is important.

Otherwise North Africa is a good scenario to play to get a feel for the game. No building needed but you can concentrate on moving and fighting.

Don't give up. It is a fun game. REALLY!![:D]
Mat



Grymme -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/1/2008 10:27:00 PM)

Hi Panzer. Slow down a little, grow a little patience and i promise you that youll find a nice game here.

I think that you maybe have confused two things.

Political Points is used to research tecnology, create corps and HQ and pay for actioncards.
Supply is used to supply troops and to pay to uppgrade old SFT:s to higher levels of researched tecnologies (ie to uppgrade an Fighter I SFT to a Fighter II SFT.

- To research a tecnology you go to the "ecision Room" (button on the right) choose "Research". If you have enough PPs to research a technology you can choose it here and research it.
- To uppgrade an SFT unit you need to have the relevant technology, enough supplys (not PP), enough experience in the unit, and be in port (ship), and then do as Barthhead says.

Let us know if youve managed.




DasTactic -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/2/2008 12:14:49 AM)

It would probably be easiest to play a very small random game with no first level tech and no water (game setup options). Get used to the play style on that first, then move onto the bigger maps. I still only play the random maps because they are so enjoyable. :)



panzers -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/2/2008 12:46:00 AM)


Well, it's like I said: I have read the manual twice, played the tutorial 3 times and played all four training games with the naval one 3 times, so I am aware of all what you guys are saying so I think I have my answer: maybe I do know how to play the game. I just haven't gone beyond the training and tutorials yet and it seems as though those are very basic and generic scenerios and they don't seem to offer the bells and whistles that come with a regular game, so I will go on to a regular game now. I'll keep you posted



Jeffrey H. -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/2/2008 3:31:31 AM)

I'm willing to try and help you with any specific questions that I can answer. But I can't do much with generic pleas.



LarryP -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/2/2008 1:23:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: panzers

Well, it's like I said: I have read the manual twice, played the tutorial 3 times and played all four training games with the naval one 3 times, so I am aware of all what you guys are saying so I think I have my answer: maybe I do know how to play the game. I just haven't gone beyond the training and tutorials yet and it seems as though those are very basic and generic scenerios and they don't seem to offer the bells and whistles that come with a regular game, so I will go on to a regular game now. I'll keep you posted


You said at your first post that you read the manual 3 times. [&:] [&:] [&:]



panzers -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/3/2008 8:51:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

quote:

ORIGINAL: panzers

Well, it's like I said: I have read the manual twice, played the tutorial 3 times and played all four training games with the naval one 3 times, so I am aware of all what you guys are saying so I think I have my answer: maybe I do know how to play the game. I just haven't gone beyond the training and tutorials yet and it seems as though those are very basic and generic scenerios and they don't seem to offer the bells and whistles that come with a regular game, so I will go on to a regular game now. I'll keep you posted


You said at your first post that you read the manual 3 times. [&:] [&:] [&:]

My bad. I read it twice and did the tutorial 3 times, but I think I am beginning to understand it a bit more right now



ghoward -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/6/2008 4:46:35 AM)

hi panzers. I have shared your frustration with the manual. Vic is a much better programmer than he is an author.  Go to the  After Action Reports section in this forum and read A Beginners Guide To Random Maps... By A Beginner!!.  It is what got me over the hump. 



jamus34 -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/8/2008 3:36:45 AM)

Hello Panzers...I somewhat understand your frustration however you collect more flies with honey rather than vinegar.

I'm still trying to figure out certain aspects myself...I'm also fairly new to wargames overall. I been reading the AAR's which have helped me quite a bit. I tried a random scenario tonight unfortunately I got completely hamstrung by the computer and placement...I was on a small island with only my main city and the next nearest city was quite a bit a ways away. I also have to go through what figured to be a continent.

I'm going to try again tomorrow methinks. But the main thing I've been getting from everyone is to not give up.

General gameplay question regarding supply...How do I expand the supply line's reach? Do I have to keep my HQ fairly near my front line? Do I need more trucks? I understand the concept of supply but having difficulty grasping how the game uses various tools to distribute it.



Jeffrey H. -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/8/2008 5:01:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jamus34

General gameplay question regarding supply...How do I expand the supply line's reach? Do I have to keep my HQ fairly near my front line? Do I need more trucks? I understand the concept of supply but having difficulty grasping how the game uses various tools to distribute it.



You need to establish an HQ in a port city on the place you are invading. Then you need to provide cargo ships into the HQ as organic supply elements. Then, you can manually transfer supply between HQ's over the Ocean.

You need to set all your unit HQ's to the HQ nearest them and the port city you capture needs to have the city HQ set to your overseas HQ.

Sounds complicated but it's fairly sraightforward.




panzers -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/8/2008 6:29:15 AM)


I will eventually get to the game because it really does seem cool, but I am going to WiFcon tomorrow and won't even be able to touch it for two weeks. I have been too busy trying to understand the new rules for WiF to be learning this one, but I will and, with the support I am geting from here and the aar's I hope to get it running and play for a while before MWiF is released.



Appren -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/8/2008 12:14:31 PM)

You don't need to manually move supply, in most cases.
Have a main HQ, located in your homeland, or if you are on an isle, in a port in your homeland, this HQ needs to have at least one truck (and a transport ship if overseas) attached. Other headquarters are then linked to that HQ, or, if you fight on a different continent or a huge map, you may chose to have a link in a friendly port there.

Main HQ --> Frontline HQs, or Main HQ --> "midpoint" HQ --> Frontline HQs.

Typically have all SUPPLY produced sent to the main HQ, and it will be automatically distributed to your frontline headquarters, as long as they are in supply range, and not cut off (build roads if needed, and most importantly, bridges)
Soldiers and new hardware produced should be sent directly to the frontline headquarters that need to be reinforced, by linking the producing city to that particular HQ, and changing that every turn as needed. This means you will not need to maintain a huge amount of transport capacity in your main HQ.



Shambling Strider -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/8/2008 2:50:05 PM)

Hi Panzers,

In my humble opinion, ATWWII is really a great game because of his deepness. I'm playing this game almost every day for months now and I'm still commiting a lot of mistakes because I'm still learning rules![:D] But once you did a mistake, especially in a PBEM game, you'll find and understand why and then never forget it!

I've learn it by first play some random games against AI and some simple operationnal scenarios like the Ardennes.

And the community is so alive!

Hope you will have fun with it!



british exil -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/8/2008 6:55:01 PM)

@ Shambling Strider, glad to hear that you make mistakes. Hope I recognize them in GPW.[:'(]

Mat



jeffreysutro@jeffreysutro.com -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/8/2008 7:40:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: panzers

This moght sound stupid, but I was trying to learn these thinfs in the training game. Does that mean that the optionis not there even though I have the PP. And, of course, I was at port. I haven't played anything but the tutoirials and the training game because I'm trying real hard to use them as a learning tool, so Is that my problem? There arn't those type of options?


panzers:

Although I think Advanced Tactics is a great game, I have to agree with you that the tutorials and the training games are nearly useless, especially since they don't address supply, production and upgrading units. On the bright side the though the second (or was it the third?) training scenerio did teach me the importance of scouts and good recon, especially for tank units. [:)]



Shambling Strider -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/8/2008 9:16:29 PM)

@British Exil :

With all the mistakes I do, I'm practicing a lot to repair it as fast as possible ! [;)]



mcv -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/9/2008 11:09:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: panzers


Well, it's like I said: I have read the manual twice, played the tutorial 3 times and played all four training games with the naval one 3 times, so I am aware of all what you guys are saying so I think I have my answer: maybe I do know how to play the game. I just haven't gone beyond the training and tutorials yet and it seems as though those are very basic and generic scenerios and they don't seem to offer the bells and whistles that come with a regular game, so I will go on to a regular game now. I'll keep you posted


The best way to learn this game is to play it. I played it before reading the manual, played the tutorial once, and never played any other training scenario. What did help me immensely, though, was the blitzkrieg staff academy for pacifists. It's actually not all that well written, but it explains a couple of subtle yet vital concepts of this game, and helps you get started in the "russia 1941" scenario.

I messed about a bit with the first turn of that scenario, then played a couple of quick random scenarios to get the hang of it, and then returned to russia '41, and beat the crap out of the AI. Now I'm playing a "World at War" scenario, and I'm still learning new stuff.

Don't expect to grasp every part of this game all at once. Naval operations, paradrops, supply drops to units that are out of supply, there's lots of stuff in this game that you're not going to need in your average game. Until recently, I didn't even know it was possible to upgrade existing subformations.

Focus on the basics first:
* How to move, how to attack from several directions at once, how to do artillery, air raids and shore bombardments.
* Create new units (HQs or formations)
* Production.
* Buy new tech. (Build political points, go to the tech screen and buy new tech.)
* How to organise your command structure properly to make supply, strategic movement and commanding attacks as easy as possible.

That last one is the biggest one, and the least trivial for beginners. Here's some advice:

* Make one HQ your "Supreme HQ". It stays in some central location in your empire. This will be the only top HQ you have; all others should have a an HQ superior to them (often this one or one directly below it). Send all supplies to the main HQ, and from there it will automagically be distributed to all sub-HQs that are in supply-range.
* All combat formations belong to a local command HQ. The command HQ needs enough staff to command all it's units (keep staff above 100%), and it needs to be close to the units it's commanding.
* If the units under a command HQ get too spread out, transfer some to another HQ, or create a new HQ and transfer some of your staff there.
* If a command HQ gets out of range of the supreme HQ, create an intermediary supply HQ. If the supply HQ has the supreme HQ as its HQ and is in supply range, and the command HQ has the supply HQ as superior and is within supply range of that, then supply will still happen automatically.
* Keep lots of transport capacity in your HQs. Usually trucks, trains in "world at war" scenarios, cargo ships for coastal HQs, and ocasionally transport planes. Transport capacity makes it easy to transfer subformations from one unit to another, or use strategic movement to get a unit to the front quickly.

I probably missed some things, but the important part is to play around with these. Try new things, learn new approaches, etc. There will be things you'll do the wrong way for a while. Originally, I did naval invasions by making a unit with cargo ships and land units, moving to the island I want to invade, create a new unit there, transfer the land subformations to the new unit, and next turn, it steps on land. Then I learned to transfer the cargo ships to the new unit so the land unit could land on the same turn. And only after that did I leanr the proper way: use the "load another unit on this unit" button. I knew there had to be a better way.

Paradrops also took some getting used to. And sometimes I still don't know if I should have transports and cargo ships in an HQ for strategic movement and transfers, or in a seperate unit for movement by hand.

This game is a larning process. It helps a lot if you enjoy learning, experimenting, and figuring stuff out for yourself. And if you do, write an online strategy guide to help other newbies out.



jamus34 -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/11/2008 9:20:26 PM)

Ok, so between reading the Supply for Beginner's post and playing a couple more (abortive) random scenarios I think I am starting to get the whole supply thing down.

Correct me if I am wrong but there is no way to automatically "stretch" supply lines...you need to move the nearest HQ so it is within the maximum range of the troops it supports. My question...Can you create a "dummy" HQ that has no staff or units assigned to it but is there solely as a placekeeper to help move supplies or do you need to have something attached to it to make it active?

Also, with regard to port towns...say you produce both land and sea units in town how do they get distributed??? At a guess they should go to the HQ that the town is assigned to but if that HQ is inland what happens to the sea unit?

I haven't even really gotten to the air units yet...played around with bombers a little bit but that's it...I'm slowly learning.



Barthheart -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/11/2008 10:19:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jamus34
...
Correct me if I am wrong but there is no way to automatically "stretch" supply lines...you need to move the nearest HQ so it is within the maximum range of the troops it supports. My question...Can you create a "dummy" HQ that has no staff or units assigned to it but is there solely as a placekeeper to help move supplies or do you need to have something attached to it to make it active?


You can have a string of up to four(default) HQ's to stretch your supply lines. Supreme HQ - Front HQ - Army HQ - Div. HQ. with the max supply range between each... for example. These extra HQ's don't really need staff or any other SFT's.

quote:


Also, with regard to port towns...say you produce both land and sea units in town how do they get distributed??? At a guess they should go to the HQ that the town is assigned to but if that HQ is inland what happens to the sea unit?


Sea SFT's created in port that has it's HQ inland will either create a new unit to put the "boat" into or put the boat into a unit already in teh port. Note this means if you have a land unit in the port teh "boat" gets added to it making it nolonger move on land. Create a new unit and transfer the "boat" to it.




mcv -> RE: How do you play this game? (8/11/2008 10:42:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

quote:

ORIGINAL: jamus34
...
Correct me if I am wrong but there is no way to automatically "stretch" supply lines...you need to move the nearest HQ so it is within the maximum range of the troops it supports. My question...Can you create a "dummy" HQ that has no staff or units assigned to it but is there solely as a placekeeper to help move supplies or do you need to have something attached to it to make it active?


You can have a string of up to four(default) HQ's to stretch your supply lines. Supreme HQ - Front HQ - Army HQ - Div. HQ. with the max supply range between each... for example. These extra HQ's don't really need staff or any other SFT's.


Exactly. In fact, not having any staff or other SFTs makes it trivial to move this supply HQ around with strategic movement.

Also, supply range is pretty big, so you're unlikely to need a full string of 4 HQs to get supply to where you need it, except perhaps on the largest maps. At least as long as you keep your HQs in accessible locations with roads, port, etc. When a Division HQ needs to move into mountains with lots of rivers and no roads, it may be a good idea to give it an extra supply HQ at the nearest road.

quote:


Also, with regard to port towns...say you produce both land and sea units in town how do they get distributed??? At a guess they should go to the HQ that the town is assigned to but if that HQ is inland what happens to the sea unit?


Sea SFT's created in port that has it's HQ inland will either create a new unit to put the "boat" into or put the boat into a unit already in teh port. Note this means if you have a land unit in the port teh "boat" gets added to it making it nolonger move on land. Create a new unit and transfer the "boat" to it.

That's one of the few things that are really annoying about this game. I'd like my boats to be added to new units or pure naval units, and not have a regular infantry unit suddenly be stuck with a cruiser.



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