Submarine placement? (Full Version)

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Toddr22_slith -> Submarine placement? (8/12/2008 2:47:40 PM)

For those of you manually control your subs.

How do you decide where to place them?

I know this is an open ended question, but I need help.

THX



Terminus -> RE: Submarine placement? (8/12/2008 2:51:10 PM)

Find chokepoints (straits, etc.) and put them there. Make sure you don't put them in shallow water (makes it too easy for the bad guys).

If you have to use patrol lines (and I try to avoid it), make them relatively short, so the outliers can come to the aid of whatever boat gets a contact.

Oh, and keep moving them around to keep their detection levels down.



John Lansford -> RE: Submarine placement? (8/12/2008 6:23:40 PM)

I put my subs in three locations; south of Japan between Okinawa and Iwo Jima, off the coast of Borneo, and NW of Truk.  I'll also put a handful of subs north of Okinawa and west of Japan but most of them are in those three locations.  I've seen that most Japanese TF's run through one of those areas, especially the Phillippine Sea area, so most of my subs are off the coast of Japan.  So far they've sunk two BB's, damaged a CV and sunk innumerable AK's, tankers, and AP's there.



niceguy2005 -> RE: Submarine placement? (8/12/2008 8:29:11 PM)

I keep a portion of my subs along known or suspected supply lines, a portion wherever I expect my enemies fleet operations to be and VERY IMPORTANT, a portion operating with my main fleet as extended eyes and ears.  Five or Six subs almost always preceed a major invasion or operation.  I have uncovered more than one ambush that way.



erstad -> RE: Submarine placement? (8/13/2008 1:05:34 AM)

A key is that the contact reports for subs are in the operations reports. So if you see a val or an SBD sighting a sub in mid-ocean, there be CVs. A jake or kingfisher or whatever, there be something.

Assumes you don't consider this gamey, but an argument can be made that if they can see you, you can see them.



Mike Solli -> RE: Submarine placement? (8/13/2008 2:59:37 PM)

Lots of good comments here.  A couple of things I'd like to add.

While I stay away from the shallows for the most part, I have had good success recently placing the occasional sub in an enemy port hex (yes, in the hex).  I try to do this where the enemy air power is relatively weak.  (I play the Japanese, so that "relative" is important.) 

Also, I like to set up lines of subs along what I think are enemy LOCs.  If they are unproductive after about a week, I move them.  No reason to waste a great intel asset.

I look at Japanese subs as intel assets, especially the Glen carrying subs.  If I'm doing an operation where I suspect the enemy fleet might intervene, I'll place subs between that AO and the nearest enemy major port (or level 3 port is no major port is near).  Those subs are there to ambush any damaged ships trying to make port.



Q-Ball -> RE: Submarine placement? (8/13/2008 5:21:50 PM)

I agree with Mr. Solli, and will expand further on IJN Subs, though I am not the expert:

1.  I think the GLEN subs are too valuable for attacking ships.  They are great scouts, and I use them as such.  A line of them can provide early warning of invasion, or spot CVs.
2.  The other classes can be attack subs.  Allied ASW is pretty good, so attacking defended targets is often fatal to the sub.  So is parking in a port.  I have had most success in trailing a battle and looking for cripples; any damaged transport or ship falls quickly to an IJN sub.  I have sunk a CA, CVE, DDs, and lots of transports that way.
3.  I have had some success with a wolfpack between SF and PH; a couple GLENS to spot convoys, and some cruiser types to attack.  Mostly I think it just forces the Allies to escort and convoy all over the map. 
4.  The IJN Minelayer subs, I-121 through I-124, should focus on laying mines. 
5.  For future builds, I prioritize subs this way:  GLEN SUBS:  You want them all.  ATTACK SUBS, I-171 and UP:  Yes to those  RO BOATS:  No on the short-legged, maybe on the others, though they only have 2 TT up front.  Most are not that useful. TRANSPORTS:  Yes, and accelerate.  You need them in dark times.




jwxspoon -> RE: Submarine placement? (8/13/2008 5:35:47 PM)

As japanese I like to take about half of my subs and form them into mega mining task forces.  30 subs, including all dedicated minelaying subs, will drop a lot of eggs in a hex.

I spread them around and hit likely ports.  I've killed many a ship with this tactic.

jw



firefly177 -> RE: Submarine placement? (8/14/2008 1:56:45 PM)

This is good stuff.  Thanks folks...



Toddr22_slith -> RE: Submarine placement? (8/14/2008 2:16:22 PM)

I agree, this is great stuff, thanks much[:)]



Yamato hugger -> RE: Submarine placement? (8/14/2008 4:05:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Toddr22

For those of you manually control your subs.

How do you decide where to place them?

I know this is an open ended question, but I need help.

THX


Load the game as Japs. Form a TF in Japan (Osaka is usually a good choice) and set its course to each oil and resource center that the Japs control that you suspect they are shipping resources from (actually what you SHOULD do is start the TF in these ports heading to Japan because the routes will not be the same). Then do the same with each place you suspect they are running supplies to. Note the "path" of these TFs. You want to put your subs anywhere along these routes. This tactic wont work against someone that knows about it because they will use offset points to not travel these routes (unless they get lazy).

Edit: when in doubt the best rule of thumb is this: move your subs to where the ships are coming from then set their course to where you think they are going. This is the route they will take (unless the Jap uses an offset). Sail the sub a ways, and stop when you happy with its placement. Ideally this hex will not be within 3 hexes of an airfield with planes on it.



Andvari -> RE: Submarine placement? (8/15/2008 12:02:01 AM)

In a PBEM,  the AI is routing my ships around suspected subs: I set a straight line course of 8 hexes, the AI routes me around a bend of 12 hexes. I asked my opponent if he had a sub in this area and he confirmed it. I never received an Operations report or sighting of a sub, and there are no sub symbols on the map.

Now I can use all the help I can get as the Japanese player, but an unseen hand guiding my boats to safety is weird....



Yamato hugger -> RE: Submarine placement? (8/15/2008 12:27:39 PM)

WitP will route ships around subs *shock*.

You can avoid this by keeping a sub within 6 hexes of the base the ships are headed to (example Pearl Harbor) and within 12 hexes of each other. This will "close" their ability to go around and therefore will chug right on through.



Fishbed -> RE: Submarine placement? (8/15/2008 3:02:19 PM)

quote:

Find chokepoints (straits, etc.) and put them there. Make sure you don't put them in shallow water (makes it too easy for the bad guys).


And together with Terminus' comments, remember that your subs will more scarecely attack in shallow waters, while indeed enemy ASW efficiency is quite increased. But sometimes such a tactic can be somehow fruitful: in my PBEM I just happen to put a torp into the Zuikaku with a S-boat (ammo storage explosion, greeeeeat) in Vella Lavella, which is a shallow water and a land hex. Before that only a few attacks ever happen, but well, this one compensates for them all...



bigjoe96912 -> RE: Submarine placement? (8/16/2008 12:11:46 AM)

I always place subs in enemy invasion hexs and I concentrate anywhere that he has a mind to invade, I pick off as many ships as I can and if it looks like I am about to loose the island I turn them into transports to take ground units away back to the states, it becomes the main body after teh island is captured so I can reformulate it, I know it takes forever to retrain and restock but still better than loosing them



Shark7 -> RE: Submarine placement? (8/17/2008 6:52:38 PM)

I like to use mine for nuisance mining of enemy ports. This seems to actually get the best results with the Japanese subs, allied ASW being what it is. The Glen carriers are good for scouting in areas where you LBA can't reach.

I tend to stick the ROs in enemy shipping lanes. They tend to do the best for me for some reason.



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