Scenario Design - AI and Subs (Full Version)

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Owl -> Scenario Design - AI and Subs (8/13/2008 5:21:48 PM)

Experimenting with creating scenarios - When testing I found that AI operated subs frequently continue to rush around at flank speed once fired upon by a torpedo. They don't "settle down" back to slower speeds as would be expected. Further I had one continue at 30 knots right into the shorline - it did not have a torpedo after it, though I was chasing it with my own sub.

I set up the enemy subs with no course track, just wanted them to maintain their current position - I was trying to build a western pacific version of the GUIK boomer bastion scenario, 'cept with Chinese boomers and subs. My question is, can I do something with the scenario design that will impact the actions of the AI operated subs? If I want them to get aggressive and try to hunt me, can I effect that?

Thanks!



CV32 -> RE: Scenario Design - AI and Subs (8/13/2008 5:36:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owl
Experimenting with creating scenarios - When testing I found that AI operated subs frequently continue to rush around at flank speed once fired upon by a torpedo. They don't "settle down" back to slower speeds as would be expected. Further I had one continue at 30 knots right into the shorline - it did not have a torpedo after it, though I was chasing it with my own sub.


I've seen this behavior but it also seems to happen inconsistently. I've often had AI subs (that I've attacked with air dropped lightweight torpedoes) take off like a bat out of hell and dive to their max operating depth in an attempt to evade, only to return to creep speed and shallow depth when the LWT runs out of fuel. Can you give more details of when you've observed it? Savegames are great. Send em to hc3@harpgamer.com

quote:

I set up the enemy subs with no course track, just wanted them to maintain their current position - I was trying to build a western pacific version of the GUIK boomer bastion scenario, 'cept with Chinese boomers and subs. My question is, can I do something with the scenario design that will impact the actions of the AI operated subs? If I want them to get aggressive and try to hunt me, can I effect that? Thanks!


I've had most success with putting AI subs into their own, individual groups rather than multiple subs in a group. I don't think we've ever had a problem with AI sub aggression. They will hunt you if you're detected. Giving em a good shot at detecting the player is a key here.



hermanhum -> Harpoon (8/13/2008 6:00:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CV32

I've had most success with putting AI subs into their own, individual groups rather than multiple subs in a group.

I find that if the AI has subs in a group, once one is detected, the others seem to be detected in short order. Not in all cases, but it does seem to happen faster that way.



CV32 -> RE: Harpoon (8/13/2008 6:31:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hermanhum
I find that if the AI has subs in a group, once one is detected, the others seem to be detected in short order. Not in all cases, but it does seem to happen faster that way.


Yes. The fact that they're "tied" to each other increases this risk.



Owl -> RE: Harpoon (8/13/2008 6:48:24 PM)

Getting the Ai sub to detect your sub can be a bit troublesome - if you're doing an east vs west sort of scenario at least.  I don't have a way to access the database (guess I need access?) so can't really poke into how sensitive various passive sonars are - or the detectability of various platforms for that matter.  I assume that a Seawolf for example, has some sort of noise rating at various speeds.  A sonar trying to detect then has a sensitivity level too?  Then the "dice" are rolled periodically to see if the detection is made/maintained?

I think being able to know more about the workings of the detction and attack routines would help scenario design, now that I went and got curious about it!  (all your fault! [;)])



CV32 -> RE: Harpoon (8/13/2008 11:52:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owl
Getting the Ai sub to detect your sub can be a bit troublesome - if you're doing an east vs west sort of scenario at least.


Yes, in most cases that's true. Broadly accepted fact of life: Soviet/Russian submarine acoustic signatures are 'louder' than their US/Western equivalents.

quote:

I don't have a way to access the database (guess I need access?) so can't really poke into how sensitive various passive sonars are - or the detectability of various platforms for that matter.


Sure you can. Access Runtime is included with HCE. Look for the file 'hce_art.exe'.

Install instructions for Vista can be found here.

quote:

I assume that a Seawolf for example, has some sort of noise rating at various speeds.  A sonar trying to detect then has a sensitivity level too?  Then the "dice" are rolled periodically to see if the detection is made/maintained? I think being able to know more about the workings of the detction and attack routines would help scenario design, now that I went and got curious about it!  (all your fault! [;)])


Yes, and yes. Cracking open the DB and looking at submarine signatures and sonar capabilities will push you further down that road of 'enlightenment'. [;)]



Owl -> RE: Harpoon (8/14/2008 5:14:19 PM)

 I'm doing something wrong I think (which is no surprise).  Loaded up the runtime access program, and started the DB editor - It says it has loaded a database, but nothing is there - blank where you put in the info.  I'll keep trying, I have no familiarity with Acess so that may well be my problem - probably some little thing I'm missing! At the bottom of the database main page it says "BlankDB_pleaseimport", if that helps, and the browse finds pfdata2005.mdb and pfbuild.mdb (which gives an error if I try to load it).



hermanhum -> Harpoon (8/14/2008 5:20:49 PM)

Once you have the DB imported, it should look like this:

If it doesn't, you likely did not import properly. Did you point Access to the correct file? C:\HCCE\pfData2005.mdb

[image]local://upfiles/18146/9CED842F11B5475CB9BED4174ED51A5A.gif[/image]



noxious -> RE: Harpoon (8/14/2008 6:53:47 PM)

You have to hit the button called Import Database (just in case you missed it)



Owl -> RE: Harpoon (8/14/2008 6:56:32 PM)

Hi Herman & thanks for the response, my screen looks like that except that I have "BlankDB_Pleaseimport in the DB name space.  The rest looks identical to the screenshot you posted above.
I've never been able to get the scenario editor to work on this laptop either, it starts but shows none of the battlesets - this may be a related problem.
I found a webpage with a manual for the editor - I believe I am doing everything correctly, but cannot explain why the editor sees only the placeholder blank database.



Owl -> RE: Harpoon (8/14/2008 6:58:51 PM)

To Noxious: The program sees 2 MDB files, one gives me an error & the other loads but appears blank. See my reply to Herman above. Further ideas are helpful, and don't worry about insulting my intelligence, when it comes to some PC stuff.. well... I'm not sure I have any [:(]

Thanks!



hermanhum -> Problem (8/14/2008 7:02:24 PM)

Hit the Browse button.

It might ask you, "Do you want to link to a different data file?" Answer Yes.

Then, it opens up a window browser. You need to point it to pfData2005.mdb file. This is usually found in your HCE folder. Once you have selected it, hit "Open".

Then, hit the Import command and it should import it and overwrite your currently BlankDB



Owl -> RE: Problem (8/14/2008 7:05:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hermanhum

Hit the Browse button.

It might ask you, "Do you want to link to a different data file?" Answer Yes.

Then, it opens up a window browser. You need to point it to pfData2005.mdb file. This is usually found in your HCE folder. Once you have selected it, hit "Open".

Then, hit the Import command and it should import it and overwrite your currently BlankDB


I tried that, no go. It sees two dot mdb files (.mdb) and accepts the one you list above, but still finds only the blank one I mentioned earlier. Something is apparently not working as it should (for a pleasant change maybe, not my fault?!)



hermanhum -> Problem (8/14/2008 7:12:39 PM)

Sorry, I think that I've reached the end of my technical acumen. You'll have to wait until Tony can give you some professional assistance.  [:)]



Owl -> RE: Problem (8/14/2008 7:33:06 PM)

Thanks anyway Herman. I could certainly use some professional help (in more ways than one probably [8|])



TonyE -> RE: Problem (8/15/2008 4:39:52 AM)

I think the correct advice has already been given, click the "Import New Database" button then wait while it imports (should take less than 3 minutes).



miller7219 -> RE: Problem (8/15/2008 12:46:06 PM)

Tony...I'm having the same problem as above. Started since the .044 beta I installed earlier this week. I run my own self-created database mostly, but tried to switch the editor back to the original database. When you click browse and select the orginal pfdata2005.mdb file nothing changes (my self-made data is still the in the editor along with it's name.). I click import and of course same...no error, but still my self-made db data/name in the editor. Swapping data between databases in the editor worked fine as of last week and prior to my install of .044 beta.



Owl -> RE: Problem (8/15/2008 4:36:29 PM)

Well, I got it to work! I tried it on my home PC and it loaded without any issues. First thing this morning at work I rebooted my laptop (I tend to just leave it on and plugged in when not here) and the editor worked as expected.
Now to have some fun (and hopefully not screw something up) - going to try to add the super-cavitating Shkval torpedo (if it's not lurking in there already) and the PAK FA new Russian fighter. Also may have some fun fiddling with adding the Russian plasma stealth feature on a few platforms to find out how stealth vs stealth pans out!

Thanks everyone that tried to help & sorry for derailing the topic (guess I started it though, so it's my thread to derail, right?) [;)]



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