OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (Full Version)

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BoredStiff -> OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 6:26:01 AM)

Oh boy, it's times like this I'm glad I no longer watch TV - haven't since around 1979. In fact, I do not own a TV.
Of course, I catch some here and there, mostly at a relative's house. I even paid $6 each for three beers a couple of months ago at the ESPN Zone sports bar in Times Square to watch the Turkey vs. Germany European Cup quarterfinal. I was sightseeing Manhattan and it was game time and I didn't know where else to go. That's about the only thing I go out of my way for to watch on TV, international soccer. And I didn't even get to sit down, it was standing room only.
The beers were only 12 oz, btw.

The Olympics, otoh, I haven't followed to any degree since the Montreal games in 1976. I was 15 years old at the time, and since then I haven't given a rat's ass about the Olympics. At least not the summer ones - the winter ones I find fairly interesting, for the most part.
I don't know what it is, exactly, that I find obnoxious. Probably the extreme nationalistic jingoism put out by the msm (mainstream media) has a lot to do with it. At least here in the US. I'm really tired of hearing how this or that individual is "challening the world", or some **** like that. Give me a break.
Then there's the knowledge that the winning individuals will have their names splattered all over product endorsements for the next 20 years. Bruce Jenner, Mary Lou Retton, ad nauseum. I am so tired of hearing about these people.

So I caught some Fencing action today at the relative's house, only for a few minutes. As far as I could tell, it was a team event, although there were always only two contestants. (The American woman (women?) beat the French to take the bronze, fwiw.)

So I went to the Olympic Games website a little while ago, to check the medal count. Along the left site of the page, I noticed a listing of all the sports, or at least the major categories, which got me to thinking that another reason I no longer care about the Olympics is because there are too many events that really shouldn't be considered sports at all, let alone be represented at the Olympics.

So here's my list of olympic sports and whether or not I think they should be considered sports, and why. Actually, now that I think about it, they are no longer called sports, but Events, which of-and-by-itself speaks volumes. Anyway, here goes:

Archery: I would question whether this is a sport. It doesn't require much endurance to aim an arrow and although there is a good bit of mental concentration involved, it's not enough to qualify as a sport. Let's just hope no one decides to include horse archery as a future event, since it's been around since ancient times, like archery. Not a sport.

Badminton: LOL

Baseball: So, is it an official olympic event now or not? I hear different things from year to year. In any case, Baseball is a game, not a sport. Many of the game's most recognizable names hardly conjure up images of athletic figures, like this guy for example. And what's with the hat tipping when they run around the bases? I submit that any game that even allows it's players to wear hats (not helmets, hats) can't possibly be a sport, since the players are obviously not active enough if the hat stays on. Not a sport.

Basketball: It's a sport, although I would question whether a final score of 98:96 really proves who was the better team. All it proves is that the game happened to end when one team happened to be ahead of the other by a point or two. 15 seconds earlier it could have been the other team that was ahead. Although largely pointless for this reason, it's a sport.

Beach Volleyball: Simply playing a game in a different setting should not qualify it as an event. Otherwise, why can't we have the Beach 100 Meter Dash? Or how about Beach Cycling? (As an aside, I also frown upon the promotion of Beach Soccer (Futsol?) at the FIFA World Cup website, but I digress). Not a sport (although see Volleyball below).

Boxing: Unquestionably a sport.

Canoe/Kayak: I don't know enough about this to judge whether it's a sport. I mean how much athletic prowess is involved in guiding a little one-man boat down a river? Huckleberry Finn rafted down the Mississipi (sp), so hard can it be? I don't know enough about this.

Cycling: Definitely a sport. As a teen, back around the time of the previously mentioned 1976 Montreal Olympics in fact, I used to take my ten-speed to the Kissena Park, Queens velodrome (outdoor), which was quite fun.

Diving: Again, I'm not sure how much athleticism is involved in this, although I acknowledge that I've never seen an overweight person compete, unlike in Baseball. Then again, I see no reason why an overweight person couldn't compete, since the scoring is based on the execution of the dives, not the diver's physique. Not to mention it would be funny to watch. Don't know about this one.

Equestrian: This is the event that actually caused me to compose this list. I clicked on the Germany medal count to see which events they'd won and, as expected, three of their seven gold medals so far came in the equestrian events. Now, I have to ask, who's the athlete here, the rider or the horse? In other words, three of the German gold medals so far have been won by - horses. Should teaching tricks to an animal be considered an Olympic Sport/Event? And remember what I said about the wearing of hats in regard to Baseball earlier? Here, they sometimes wear tophats for chrissakes!
This is a joke of an event and definitely not a sport.

Fencing: Not sure about this one either. For some reason, the American woman I watched earlier today kept making shrieking/grunting sounds, not unlike those made by Maria Sharapova, although not nearly as loud. Those getups they wear don't look like they allow much air circulation, so I have to wonder how much of their sweat is due to physical exertion or mostly from having to wear those tight outfits. I tend to think this should not be a sport.

Field Hockey: This is just an obscure variation of Ice Hockey and therefore should not be considered as a sporting event.

Gymnastics: Definitely a sport.

Handball: Soccer played with the hand - weird, but yes, it's a sport.

Judo: I again don't know enough about this, but generally, the wrestling-type of events are definitely sports.

Modern Pentathlon: I don't know what they mean by "modern", but if it involves the traditional sports of running/sprinting, high jumping and so forth, it's definitely a sport. In fact, this and the triathlon are some of the best examples of all-around athleticism. I may be tired of hearing Bruce Jenner's name, but he was/is definitely and athlete.

Rhythmic Gymnastics: If this is the stuff where they twirl the ribboned batons and do tricks with balls, it shouldn't be a sport. For the most part, it's just a variation of traditional gymnastics, adorned with some gimmicks. Not a sport.

Rowing: Definitely a sport.

Sailing: Let the wind carry you whichever way it might. Not a sport.

Shooting: Again, like archery, it may take some mental concentration, but next to no physical prowess. Also, an overweight person could do it. Like archery, not a sport.

Soccer: Definitely a sport.

Softball: Just a variation of the above-mentiond Baseball and definitely not a sport for the same reasons.

Swimming: Unquestionably a sport.

Syncronized Swimming: A variation of swimming, with just some gimmicks added and therefore not a sport.

Table Tennis: Not sure about this one, mainly because I would again question the degree of athleticism involved. I mean, can a gold medalist in table tennis really compare, athletically, to a gold medalist in the triathlon or pentathlon? Also, I used to play table tennis and I'm no athlete, so there's another minus. On the other hand, there are some extraordinary YouTube videos of some amazing table tennis volleys. I don't know about this one.

Taekwondo: Is it necessary to include all the martial arts as separate events? Will there be a Kung-Fu event in the future? On the other hand, as previously stated, the wrestling-type of events are definitely sports. I don't know about this.

Tennis: Yes, it's a sport. Speaking of Maria Sharapova, I read a couple of years ago she had sex with a boyfriend on a tennis court. Presumably while the stadium was empty. I've always wondered whether she shrieked/grunted that time too, but I digress.

Track & Field: Arguably, the defining sports of the Summer Olympics.

Trampoline: ???

Triathlon: One of the defining events of the Olympics. Definitely a sport (see Pentathlon, above).

Volleyball: Definitely a sport.

Water Polo: I once read that Water Polo is the most demanding of sports - and I believe it. I remember a couple of times as a teen when some friends and I played some ball-type games in a swimming pool and it was very exhausting after only a few minutes. Playing a game while keeping your head above water will definitely tax a person's physical stamina. Unquestionably a sport.

Weightlifting: Although some of the athletes can be rather un-athletic looking (ie overweight), generally it is a physically and mentally demanding pursuit. It's a sport.

Wrestling: Definitely a sport.


And there you have it, one guy's opinion regarding "sports".

[image]http://i36.tinypic.com/2liza0k.jpg[/image]



Widell -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 9:21:51 AM)

Just for the record, the whole thing is named "The Olympic Games" not the "The Olympic Sports" [;)]. Not sure if that will reverse the logic of you list, and also not sure if you argue that some of the sports/games/events/whatever (SGEW?) should be taken out. My take is that there are many Olympic SGEW's that are just there to get sponsor money in. Right or wrong? I don't know, but if you look at the Winter Olympics, you'll find a few mind boggling SGEW's there as well.

EDIT: As I read your comments again, I simply had to make a few remarks (Don't take them too seriously):

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoredStiff
Badminton: LOL

Well, it is huge in parts of the world. Maybe not the US, but then again, the Olympics are global, right. Remember Asia, like 3 billion people....

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoredStiff
Equestrian: This is a joke of an event and definitely not a sport.


I agree that most of the SGEW's where there are judges involved in deciding who wins are not my cup of tea, but when it comes to everything related to horses, you need to remember it's a huge SGEW in Europe. Maybe not in the US, I don't know. I'm not a fan myself, but there's a huge crowd out there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoredStiff
Fencing: Not sure about this one either. I tend to think this should not be a sport.


Why should it not be a sport just because you don't "break enough sweat"? Again, fencing is nothing I'm interested in, but the technical skills you need to even score one point against these ladies and men should not be underestimated. Also, most likely one of the oldest SGEW's still in the Olympics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoredStiff
Field Hockey: This is just an obscure variation of Ice Hockey and therefore should not be considered as a sporting event.

Hate to bring it to you, but Ice Hockey is a variation of Field Hockey. Does that mean Ice Hockey is not a sporting event?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoredStiff
Handball: Soccer played with the hand - weird, but yes, it's a sport.

Again, a huge sport in Europe. Big crowds and professional leagues for both men and women(?) in Germany and Spain as far as I know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoredStiff
Sailing: Let the wind carry you whichever way it might. Not a sport.

But still a very clear Olympic SGEW....

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoredStiff
Shooting: Again, like archery, it may take some mental concentration, but next to no physical prowess. Also, an overweight person could do it. Like archery, not a sport.

Are you proposing that everything that can be done by an overweight person should not considered a sport? That could be interpreted as a very derogatory comment, no? I'm not overweight, but sports is not only about taking your body to its physical limit. All sport today are at least 25 to 50% about mental concentration. Some more, some less. Again, shooting is nothing I'm into, but try holding a rather heavy gun steady for a whole day while trying to hit a fly 100m away. Maybe you need some training?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoredStiff
Table Tennis: Not sure about this one, mainly because I would again question the degree of athleticism involved. I mean, can a gold medalist in table tennis really compare, athletically, to a gold medalist in the triathlon or pentathlon? Also, I used to play table tennis and I'm no athlete, so there's another minus. On the other hand, there are some extraordinary YouTube videos of some amazing table tennis volleys. I don't know about this one.

Come on, these guys spend as much time training as any other participant, but all SGEW's are different. I mean, if train for triathlon, I can almost be sure you'd be a looser in table tennis and vice versa. Also check the number of active players in Asia. You will have a hard time arguing with that crowd!

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoredStiff
Taekwondo: Is it necessary to include all the martial arts as separate events? Will there be a Kung-Fu event in the future? On the other hand, as previously stated, the wrestling-type of events are definitely sports. I don't know about this.

So basically you are saying all martial arts should be condensed into one Olympic SGEW? Sounds like fun to watch, but hardly fair to the ones participating. Would look a little like "Fight Club" maybe?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoredStiff
Triathlon: One of the defining events of the Olympics. Definitely a sport (see Pentathlon, above).

So Triathlon is not a variation of Pentathlon, like your comment about Field and Ice Hockey?

So there was another guys comments to the first guys comments. This could turn into a rather fun little thread if we keep it at the right level...[:D]





Zap -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 9:39:07 AM)

Looking at your explination on some. The games and not specificly sports would be the best way to look at it in my opion.

Some of the questionables you mentioned take work of precision, some athletesism. Besides, some the poorer nations would have a hard time to compete in the Olympics at all. They don't have the money to devote to development of atheletes in those sports which need a lot of resource($).
And so you have what are called sports that all nations have a chance to compete in. Your and my perception of a sport might not be the same as someone else from another part of the world who percieves Badmiton as a legitamate sport.



JudgeDredd -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 9:57:36 AM)

I was only just thinking this the other day whilst wanting to dowse myself in petrol and light it (although, what really put me off was the cost of fuel!!) whilst I watched.....synchronised swimming. Please!!

I always thought of olympic sports as maximum physical exertion...and whilst that might be what it was about many years ago, it's obviously progressed, for better or worse.

It's clearly about the pinnacle of ability, regardless of exertion level...that is to say, at the top of ones sport. Mano-a-mano....tribe v tribe...we beat you, na na nana na.

I agree with you, but I think it's a moot point...it will continue to be added to over the years with seemingly less and less "interesting" sports.


One other thing that I was thinking about....it seems to be getting more and more "commercialised". More and more pieces of equipment "promising the elusive gold" coming out. There was an article the other day on the news about the swimming suits the simmwers wear...the all in on suits...and how it's helping swimmers smash records. Really? I do NOT understand how putting a layer of clothing on can make you swim faster...unless it's got a motor in it. I mean, doesn't it add extra weight? Doesn't it add extra friction? Are the swimming records not being broken by the sheer effort going into training, eating, driking? I think it's bollox to be honest, but the only real way to tell would be to have Phelps swim his 100m crawl with a suit on and let him do it again with it off...but then, even if there was a difference between those two times...is it really down the the suit? I mean, there are so many other things that affect an athletes performance...and we are talking about 10ths, even 100ths of a second here!!

Also, there is all this about the "performance enhancing" malarky. And I know drugs are different to equipment, but still....all the paraphernalea on those bows for the archery competition....I mean, seriously!!! Stabalisers...sights...not exactly mano-a-mano...more like machine against machine.

But then, that's always been there. Different running shoes...different skulls...different kayaks. At least they have to make it available to all. But as long as these companies go on about knocking 10th here and a 10th there off the world record, there will be a market for them...a global one!

So, after my big rant also, I can say I agree with boredstiff...but to add, it's more about machine (equipment) than man. I'm very cynical about the whole thing nowadays...and I wonder what was promised where in some dark dingy room (or some multi-national, 5 star hotel chain with a 13 course meal) for China to be allowed to host them!! It's almost like they had a brainwave and said "Where is the WORST place we can have the olympics in 2008?"

Anyway, Boredstiff....well done on not watching TV for so long...I wish I could do that...so much crap on it's unbelievable!



JudgeDredd -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 10:00:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zap

Looking at your explination on some. The games and not specificly sports would be the best way to look at it in my opion.

Some of the questionables you mentioned take work of precision, some athletesism. Besides, some the poorer nations would have a hard time to compete in the Olympics at all. They don't have the money to devote to development of atheletes in those sports which need a lot of resource($).
And so you have what are called sports that all nations have a chance to compete in. Your and my perception of a sport might not be the same as someone else from another part of the world who percieves Badmiton as a legitamate sport.

And there is exactly my point....it's about money. What a shame.

I have no answer to that...it's just about money and it's not going to change.



JudgeDredd -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 10:14:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL Widell

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoredStiff
Shooting: Again, like archery, it may take some mental concentration, but next to no physical prowess. Also, an overweight person could do it. Like archery, not a sport.


Are you proposing that everything that can be done by an overweight person should not considered a sport? That could be interpreted as a very derogatory comment, no? I'm not overweight...


I am overweight. Obese. Isn't it funny how it takes someone who isn't overweight to pick up on that? I never read it like that at all...I think that's a sign of the PC world we are creating.



String -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 10:50:53 AM)

I wouldn't call archery a sport that didn't require any physical strength or endurance. I'm not sure how heavy the pull strengths for the bows in olympic events are, but i wouldn't be surprised if they drifted into the 30-40kg range.



ANZAC_Tack -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 11:00:35 AM)

woooo....no TV since 1975ish...sounds like unibomber or something! totally a joke. I watch a few hours a week,and all recorded to skip the adds. mostly watch aussie ABC, its add free,and non commercial.
yeah the olympics at the moment is a lie and fake, the poor sportspeople are real,but this entire games is tainted with blood. i hope one day it returns to its roots,sports elite non coca cola advertising.



Shaun Wallace -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 12:44:16 PM)

LOL, Amazing BS,

I did Karate for many many many years and now do archery, for you to say neither are hard, or sporting is pretty funny!

Its also funny, what IS in your list! Karate, if this is not working up a sweat or considered as "olympic" as wrestling (one of the original events) then I am unsure what is? Given the nature of the modern olympics, the olympics is NOT about sitting at home watching them, but for those taking part to prove they are the best in the world at whatever their "sport or EVENT" is!

If its fun to watch even better, but give me a break! Archery, not physically hard? How much do you need to practice to get to olympic standard? I have 2 bows, a 75lb pull weight compound bow and a 65lb pull weight 6,4" long bow, practicing with either to get good enough for the olympics would be major physical work!

An old teacher of my sons was on the UK fencing team and again for anyone to say that is not physical or requires stamina or skill is somone who knows very little about it! Same old same old by those who think the world is always there purely for "their" entertainment!

Sulla



Widell -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 1:03:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ANZAC_Tack
...i hope one day it returns to its roots,sports elite non coca cola advertising.


It wasn't too many years ago that contracted professional athletes were not allowed to participate, nor athletes who received income from commercials. For example, the Swedish skier Ingemar Stenmark was not allowed to go to the Olympics in 84 to defend his gold from 80 due to these rules. It has definitely changed since. I think the concept was finally dropped in 92 when the US Dream Team in Basket could participate and as of now I think it's only boxing and maybe baseball that are not allowing professionals to participate.

And regarding being obese, my observation may be a sign of the PC'ness of the world, but just to clarify, I found it somewhat strange that the degree of obesity (obeseness?) of the participants would be a way to judge if the activity would qualify as a sport or not. Imagine the IOK meeting where that discussion takes place: "Now these archers are really putting on weight" - "Absolutely, and that Ronaldo character in soccer as well" - "OK, let's vote: Archery and Soccer are gone in 2012" - "Cool, meeting closed. Now, where's the champagne?"



JudgeDredd -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 1:07:11 PM)

So what is next then Shaun, if he doesn't have a valid point. Agreed on picking some individual points out...I would never have said Karate wasn't worthy a spot...but regarding the overall point...where does it stop? Dominoes? Darts? Poker?

His individual criticisms can and will be picked on by many regarding validity...but his overall point...the addition of more and more sports, some seemingly for the sake of it.

Personally I don't think Archery is physically tiring. I've done archery (although not on a professional level) and once your muscles have developed, it's hardly a "physical" drain on the contender...it's then a mental game.



Widell -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 1:07:14 PM)

Another clarification give the the ever increasing PC'ness: My previous post is not hinting at either archers, nor anyone named Ronaldo are in any way more or less obese compared to anyone else. They are just there as illustrative examples [;)]



JudgeDredd -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 1:08:56 PM)

[:D]



Widell -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 1:23:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
So what is next then Shaun, if he doesn't have a valid point. Agreed on picking some individual points out...I would never have said Karate wasn't worthy a spot...but regarding the overall point...where does it stop? Dominoes? Darts? Poker?


I think the discussion is a bit strange since the Olympics are not about each SEGW requiring ultimate physical exhaustion to qualify. If that was the case, not many SEGW's would qualify.

Looking at Wikipedia, which is maybe not the most accurate source of information, they give the following defintion:

quote:

A sport or discipline is included in the Olympic program if the IOC determines that it is widely practiced around the world, that is, the number of countries that compete in a given sport is the indicator of the sport's prevalence. The IOC's requirements reflect participation in the Olympic Games as well — more stringent toward men (as they are represented in higher numbers) and Summer sports (as more nations compete in the Summer Olympics). To be able to be competed at the Olympics, for instance, an event must be practiced in at least 50 and 35 countries, on three continents, by men and women, respectively.


The source for the above is said to be: http://www.hickoksports.com/history/olsports.shtml (This site had an annoying popup. Don't click if your blood pressure goes up from popups)

The conclusion is that it's the number of worldwide participants that count. Also, the difference between an Olympic Gameand an Olympic Sport is significant. The Olympic Games are the sports that are included in the Olympic Programme, while the Olympic Sports are all sports recognized by the IOC (used IOK before, sorry) and contain such interesting activities as Boule, Chess and Tug of War. Tug of War was actually an Olympic Game between 1900 and 1920 when it was discontinued, while Croquet only was an Olympic Game in 1896 and 1900 and is also no longer an Olympic Sport. Interestingly enough for this forum, Military Patrol was an Observation Sport (aka aspiring to become an Olympic Sport and maybe an Olympic Game) in the years 1924, 1928, 1936, 1948 (48 it was as a Winter Sport).

Not sure where this'll lead the discussion, but one can surely learn a lot of peripherical stuff about the Olympics. All of which is more fun than watching most of it on television!



Marc von Martial -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 2:54:03 PM)

quote:

Handball: Soccer played with the hand - weird, but yes, it's a sport.


You obviously have never played Handball. It is much much harder and demanding then soccer. Was there about the same time as soccer. For the real kick play Feldhandball, it is played on a soccer filed on soccer goals.

You should also play Badminton. Considering your "LOL" I bet you won't stay 5 minutes at an average game pace [;)]



Shaun Wallace -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 2:54:50 PM)

LOL,

quote:

So what is next then Shaun, if he doesn't have a valid point. Agreed on picking some individual points out...I would never have said Karate wasn't worthy a spot...but regarding the overall point...where does it stop? Dominoes? Darts? Poker?


Looks like this is the defention and no for some strange reason, I dont think darts or dominos count ;) even though meeting some of the criteria ;)

A sport or discipline is included in the Olympic program if the IOC determines that it is widely practiced around the world, that is, the number of countries that compete in a given sport is the indicator of the sport's prevalence. The IOC's requirements reflect participation in the Olympic Games as well — more stringent toward men (as they are represented in higher numbers) and Summer sports (as more nations compete in the Summer Olympics). To be able to be competed at the Olympics, for instance, an event must be practiced in at least 50 and 35 countries, on three continents, by men and women, respectively.
 
The question of how many sports are included in the Olympics is a bit tricky, because the International Olympic Committee doesn't define a sport in quite the same way that most people do. The IOC recognizes a hierarchy of sports, disciplines, and events. To the IOC, a sport is represented by a single international governing body.
To look at a concrete example, most people would say that swimming, diving, synchronised swimming, and water polo are four separate sports. However, the international governing body for all three is the Federation Internationale de Natation. In Olympic terms, therefore, the sport is aquatics. Swimming, diving, synchronized swimming, and water polo are aquatics disciplines.
An event, in Olympic terms, is any competition for which medals are awarded. So men's platform diving is an event, diving is the discipline, and aquatics is the sport.
It should be noted that, for many sports, the sport is also the discipline. That's true, for example, of badminton, baseball, and basketball. It's not true of archery, though; the sport is archery and the discipline is target archery. Target archery happens to be the only archery discipline included in the Olympics, but the International Archery Federation also governs competition in field archery and ski archery, which are considered separate disciplines.
Officially, there are 27 sports on the Summer Olympic program. They're shown below with their disciplines, where applicable. The year in which the sport was first on the Olympic program is shown in parentheses.
 
Some sports are Olympic and some aren't. For example:
  • Boxing is. Kickboxing isn't.
  • Water polo is. Polo isn't.
  • Rhythmic gymnastics, yes. Aerobic dancing, nyet.
  • Discus throw is a go. Cow chip hurling, no.

What makes some sports Olympic? It all goes back to tradition.
The ancient roots
Ask Encarta and you'll learn that the Olympic Games are a revival of an ancient Greek festival that started in 776 BC. Those games differed a bit from ours. There were fewer events, many of which mimicked what you'd do in battle if you were an ancient Greek. For example:

Every four years the Greeks gathered to compete in these sports. They came from city-states that were often at each other's throats, but during the Olympic Games, wars were put on hold.Some sports are Olympic and some aren't. For example:
  • Boxing is. Kickboxing isn't.
  • Water polo is. Polo isn't.
  • Rhythmic gymnastics, yes. Aerobic dancing, nyet.
  • Discus throw is a go. Cow chip hurling, no.

What makes some sports Olympic? It all goes back to tradition.
The ancient roots
Ask Encarta and you'll learn that the Olympic Games are a revival of an ancient Greek festival that started in 776 BC. Those games differed a bit from ours. There were fewer events, many of which mimicked what you'd do in battle if you were an ancient Greek.
Every four years the Greeks gathered to compete in these sports. They came from city-states that were often at each other's throats, but during the Olympic Games, wars were put on hold. What criteria?

What criteria? Well, someone's got to apply: A sport needs an association or governing body of some kind to get in. Cow chip hurling, therefore, popular though it may be in the upper Midwest, probably won't make it. A sport must also be popular in many countries--75 of them for men's summer sports, 40 for women's summer sports, and 25 for winter sports.


That's why lacrosse, the national sport of Canada, was dropped. American football is in the same bind. And I guess the caber toss won't be an Olympic sport any time soon. A caber is a spruce log about 6 m (20 ft) long. The sport consists of heaving this telephone pole end over end. You'll see caber tossing wherever kilts are worn and bagpipes played--but nowhere else, alas!

I do wonder, though, if all the Olympic sports have cleared the popularity bar. Take the biathlon, for instance, a combination of cross-country skiing and riflery. You ski for a while, drop to your belly, shoot some targets, ski some more. For each target you miss, you have to ski an extra loop.
Popular in 25 countries, they say. Well, it hasn't taken off in my neighborhood, I can tell you. I can't remember the last time I saw someone "biathloning."

Clear as .......

Sulla



Marc von Martial -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 2:57:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
Personally I don't think Archery is physically tiring. I've done archery (although not on a professional level) and once your muscles have developed, it's hardly a "physical" drain on the contender...it's then a mental game.


At a proffesional level you hardly have a chance just being "mentally fit", mental and physical fitness go hand in hand in such competitions. Keeping up total mental concentration over hours is physically draining.



Shaun Wallace -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 2:58:23 PM)

quote:

You should also play Badminton. Considering your "LOL" I bet you won't stay 5 minutes at an average game pace


Very bloody true Marc, not as easy as it may seem! A good player can run you ragged lol ;)

Sulla



Marc von Martial -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 2:59:02 PM)

quote:

Popular in 25 countries, they say. Well, it hasn't taken off in my neighborhood, I can tell you. I can't remember the last time I saw someone "biathloning."


You need snowy weather for that, not rainy [;)]



Marc von Martial -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 2:59:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shaun Wallace

quote:

You should also play Badminton. Considering your "LOL" I bet you won't stay 5 minutes at an average game pace


Very bloody true Marc, not as easy as it may seem! A good player can run you ragged lol ;)

Sulla


Without loosing one single drop of sweat [;)]



Shaun Wallace -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 3:11:55 PM)

LOL, very true and bloody annoying ;) But takes a lot of skill when you see 2 players that good!

Archery events held at the Olympics
There are four archery events held at the Olympics: Men's Individual, Women's Individual, Men's Team and Women's Team. Archers used to shoot a double FITA round of 288 total arrows, with the championship decided by the highest total score. The format was changed to head-to-head elimination for the top 64 competitors beginning with the 1992 Olympics.
Individual Competition
  • The format of the men's and women's individual competition is the same and consists of a ranking round followed by the FITA Olympics round.
  • In the ranking round, archers shoot 72 arrows at a target 70 meters (229 feet, 8 inches) away in 12 ends of six arrows each. A perfect score is 720.
  • The same set of shots is used to seed teams for the team competitions.
  • The FITA Olympic round is divided into the elimination round and the finals round.
  • The 64 competitors, seeded from the ranking round, advance to the elimination round, a single-elimination, head-to-head style of competition (seed No. 64 vs. seed No. 1, 63 vs. 2, etc).
  • Six ends of three arrows -- for a total of 18 -- are shot at a target 70 meters away with a 40-second time limit per arrow.
  • Winners of each match move on to the next round.
    The finals round is held when the field has been narrowed to eight archers.
  • It begins with the quarterfinals and continues with the semifinals and final.
  • In the semifinal and final rounds, archers shoot four ends of three arrows each -- for a total of 12 -- with a 40-second time limit per arrow.
  • The losers of the semifinals shoot in the bronze medal match and the two winners shoot in the gold medal final. 3

300 feet is the average length of a football field (soccer for the US) so shooting 229 feet, 8inches (with NO optics) for a perfect score at center of target (4.8 inches) would be, as has been said both mentally and physically challenging!

  • The scoring system is based on a 10-ring target.
  • Each section of the target is worth from one to 10 points, with 10 being the best.
  • Arrows on the dividing lines are given the higher score and deflections score where they land.
  • Arrows that bounce off the target or pass through are also counted.
  • The target face is set 70 meters (229 feet, 8 inches) from the shooting line and the
    center gold of the target is set 130 centimeters (4 feet, 3 inches) above the ground.
  • The target is usually made of paper and has a diameter of 122 centimeters (4 feet).
  • The target is divided into five colored rings and each ring is divided in half.
  • The width of each color zone is 12.2 (4.8 inches) centimeters and the width of each scoring zone -- half of a color zone -- is 6.1 (2.4 inches) centimeters.


    Sulla



    • sysrkm -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 4:01:38 PM)

    I think the first red flag waving was this guy not having a TV for almost 30 years.
    Second, if you're going to be critical, I think you should at least have a background from which to criticize. So what 'sports' have you played, or THINK you've played.

    Since I'm being critical, I'll list the ones that I've played and for how long

    Football - sandlot, then junior high 1 year, high school 2 years
    Baseball - little league for 5 years into junior high
    Rugby - 1 season, post high school
    Indoor soccer - 3 seasons, last was 5 years ago
    Ice Hockey - 35 years, still play in tournaments now

    Where I took offense the most to your post was you implication that Ice Hockey is not a sport. I know better.

    So, what have you played that you can pass judgement on what is and is not a sport?

    sysrkm aka Rob



    JudgeDredd -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 4:07:14 PM)

    Easy up Rob...read his post and you'll see the humour that was therein.

    Besides...why would the red flag be waving at the fact he''s not watched TV for over 25 years? I think in this day and age, where TV is full of the proverbial, that's not only refreshing that someone can do this, but shows character. Gosh...I wonder what he could do with all that spare time...mmm...educate himself perhaps? Whilst the rest of us rot in front of what is really an electronic advertisement board?

    I bow to his 25 years without TV.



    sysrkm -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 5:12:05 PM)

    Hi Judge,

    I'll grant you have a point: I can be a bit defensive where my favorite sport (Ice Hockey) is involved.
    In regards to the TV watching, the only 'live' TV is news, otherwise I watch very few programs, save for some motorsports (there's that NASTY word again...) and a lot of the Military Channels.
    The rest of my time is either spent at work, or as you said, educating myself, in this case, for a new job.

    I'll re-read the post and see if I can find the humor you did, Judge. I could use some laughs today.

    Regards,

    syskm aka Rob



    JudgeDredd -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 5:22:51 PM)

    Well I read the humour in it, but I can cut people some slack if "their" sport is mentioned.

    He didn't mention "couch potato", so I had no reason to rant back [:'(]



    bradfordkay -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 5:31:37 PM)

    To me, the question of sport or not a sport is answered by how the winner of the activity is declared.

    If the winner is chosen objectively (i.e., the first across the finish line, the one who scores the most goals, who jumps the highest or farthest, etc) then it a sport.

    If the winner is chosen subjectively (judged on merit in the eyes of the officials) it is an athletic activity but not a sport in my opinion.

    Thus auto racing is a sport, but gymnastics and ice skating are athletic activities...

    Edit: that's figure skating. Speed skating is obviously a sport by my definition.



    andym -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 7:50:10 PM)

    I think we need to invent new games.The present ones are a bit boring.Maybe a soccer ball could have a timed explosive in it?Or put a few sharks in the swimming pool?a 500 yard dash across a minefield?Use the Javelin to play "spear the Squirrell"?Use the shot putt to see hoe many landmines you can set off?put an offcenter weight i the basketball?And have real sharp swords for fencing,be a hell of a lot more interesting!



    hueglin -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 8:25:22 PM)

    Perhaps it would be better to provide a definition of what a sport is before deciding what fits into the category. Otherwise it just sounds like a list of personal biases.



    Sarge -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 9:51:27 PM)

    Baseball out 2012

    What gets coverage and acceptance in the Olympic games has NOTHING to do with athletics, your only kidding yourself thinking otherwise.

    quote:


    officials who felt they were too American for the world sports stage.


    http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/8504326/site/21683474/




    Hertston -> RE: OT: Sport or not a sport? (ie why the Olympics suck) (8/15/2008 10:18:24 PM)

    The dictionary only requires 'physical exertion' of some sort. As far as I can see that includes all of those listed.

    The Olympic sports I have an 'issue' with are those that, while undeniably sports, simply don't represent the pinnacle of that sport - which the Olympics always should be. The best examples are soccer and tennis... which player would trade a World Cup medal or Wimbledon win for an Olympic win?

    And the one that really gets my goat up.. they are trying to get golf into 2016. Not amateur golf, mark you, which would actually make a lot of sense (golf, with boxing, being about the only sports left with a clear amateur and professional division) but professionals. Same as above.. would anyone trade an Open or Masters win for Olympic gold? Would they hell.. well, maybe Tiger, but only because he won everything else on multiple occasions anyway.



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