Sacks? (Full Version)

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DreamTeams -> Sacks? (9/14/2008 7:24:28 AM)

I've watched several quick play games (cpu vs cpu) and have seen no sacks. Are you seeing any sacks in games played out on the field?



Mykal -> RE: Sacks? (9/14/2008 1:03:44 PM)

I watched half a game after installing the patch DT

the first 2 plays were both QB sacks, after that I cant remember
but at least you know it does happen



DreamTeams -> RE: Sacks? (9/14/2008 4:54:17 PM)

Okak, as I recall I did see that in one game. The first play was a sack, but no more after that.



Mykal -> RE: Sacks? (9/14/2008 9:52:01 PM)

watched a couple of games today,
sacks during play looked about right

between 0 - 5 for all 4 teams I watched



DreamTeams -> RE: Sacks? (9/14/2008 11:41:00 PM)

Okay. Thanks, Mykal. That's good to know. What palybooks do you use? Also, have you done any editing of your constants? Trying to get to what could be wrong by way of process of elimination.



Mykal -> RE: Sacks? (9/15/2008 12:13:37 AM)

I use the CFL playbook & Canadian playbook that where posted on FBmax
which I have tweaked a little but not alot, mainly just edited a few plays that didnt work

My Constants file, yes its edited........... quite a bit I imagine
supplied to me by MBSports

EDIT - MB has given me permission to share the constants file if you want to give it a try
with the condition that if you make any improvement on it - you share back.



DreamTeams -> RE: Sacks? (9/15/2008 6:57:41 AM)

Okay. You have a PM Mykal.



Mykal -> RE: Sacks? (9/15/2008 11:19:15 AM)

email sent Buddy



Mykal -> RE: Sacks? (9/15/2008 9:12:46 PM)

actually the more games I watch, the more sacks I'm seeing
perhaps a few too many, Toronto v Mississauga produced 28 sacks in total 10 against Toronto and 18 against Mississauga
and Aurora v Inuvik produced 13 sacks on total, 9 against aurora and 4 against inuvik.

I'll keep an eye on it, Mississauga could just have a poor o-line



DreamTeams -> RE: Sacks? (9/19/2008 10:21:25 PM)

Okay, after spending way to much time trying to get my game to produce sacks in 3D mode, I finally succeeded. Had to toy around with the constants by tweaking several things, but mostly a combo of the PhysicsBaseAgility and the BlockingPassBlockTime. However, the bad news is that the game only records sacks that are of 6 yards or further. Any sacks under six yards are not recorded in MF.

Oh, I'm also in the prcess of editing my playbooks to make sure that the QB drops back far enough (beyond 6 yards) so that if he gets sacked it gets recorded. Still, if the D gets to him quickly before he is able to get back 6 yards deep the sack will not be recorded. Bumber!



Mykal -> RE: Sacks? (9/19/2008 10:39:35 PM)

hmmmmmmm,
cant say I ever noticed that DT, interesting and well spotted



BigSmooth -> RE: Sacks? (9/20/2008 1:38:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamTeams

Okay, after spending way to much time trying to get my game to produce sacks in 3D mode, I finally succeeded. Had to toy around with the constants by tweaking several things, but mostly a combo of the PhysicsBaseAgility and the BlockingPassBlockTime. However, the bad news is that the game only records sacks that are of 6 yards or further. Any sacks under six yards are not recorded in MF.

Oh, I'm also in the prcess of editing my playbooks to make sure that the QB drops back far enough (beyond 6 yards) so that if he gets sacked it gets recorded. Still, if the D gets to him quickly before he is able to get back 6 yards deep the sack will not be recorded. Bumber!


Did you notice if it was being recorded as a Tackle For Loss if the tackle was under 6 yards?



DreamTeams -> RE: Sacks? (9/20/2008 5:01:39 AM)

Didn't notice if that was happening, BigSmooth. But, it would be interesting to check into.



regenerator -> RE: Sacks? (12/3/2008 9:13:04 PM)

I've seen some 4 and 5 yard sacks.



Marauders -> RE: Sacks? (12/3/2008 9:17:45 PM)

quote:

Did you notice if it was being recorded as a Tackle For Loss if the tackle was under 6 yards?


Do you mean just a tackle for a loss and not a sack?

In which ruleset?




DreamTeams -> RE: Sacks? (12/3/2008 9:26:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders

quote:

Did you notice if it was being recorded as a Tackle For Loss if the tackle was under 6 yards?


Do you mean just a tackle for a loss and not a sack?

In which ruleset?




Actually I've noticed that it's recorded as a tackle for loss against rushing yards. MaxF does not considered it a QB sack if under 6 yards.



Marauders -> RE: Sacks? (12/4/2008 1:44:09 AM)

Since I have gone over both the NCAA and NFL sack rules in depth with David on this subject, I wouldn't know why that would be. As far as I know, any play that starts as a pass should register a sack. Distance from the LOS was not considered at any time.

Are you using some plays that start as runs? I know there were some plays in some of the online playbooks that started as runs but were passes. If so, I suspect the game code does not register sacks, as plays that start with a run formation are considered run plays.

The only sack situation that the AI does not register, unless there is some code problem, is when a quarterback is chased out of bounds per NCAA rule. The game doesn't register a tackle, so the sack is not given either. Other than that, the other situations were covered.



DreamTeams -> RE: Sacks? (12/4/2008 1:58:12 AM)

Interesting, Marauders. Usually what I do, since noticing this issue, is check to see if QB tackles of 5 or less yards are recorded as sacks, and in every case there was no sack recorded in the game stats. Not sure if the plays started as runs or passes. I'll keep an eye out for that. But, because absolutely no QB sack under 5 yards is recorded as a sack it looks like it could be a code problem.



DreamTeams -> RE: Sacks? (12/6/2008 3:54:31 PM)

Ok. This time I saw a 5 yard sack and made sure to note the play. It started as a passing play. Good news is that the sack was recorded. So it looks like the problem develops when the play starts as a run and the QB is sacked for less than 6 yards. Then it's recorded as lost run yardage in MaxF.



Marauders -> RE: Sacks? (12/6/2008 4:42:12 PM)

Per rule, a sack is recorded on any play in which the quarterback is tackled behind the line of scrimmage on a play that was an attempted pass.  Maximum Football takes this to account by looking at the play type set for each play.



DreamTeams -> RE: Sacks? (12/6/2008 5:32:19 PM)

So, does that mean that if a qb was supposed to hand off but is tackled before it happens, it should be recorded as a run loss? Perhaps that's what is happening. I'll keep looking to see plays that are called when the sack is not recorded.



Marauders -> RE: Sacks? (12/6/2008 9:02:21 PM)

quote:

So, does that mean that if a qb was supposed to hand off but is tackled before it happens, it should be recorded as a run loss?


That is likely.

By rule, if the play is a rushing play, there is no sack recorded even if the quarterback is tackled behind the line of scrimmage.  In the NFL, NCAA, and CFL, the statisticians can check the line blocking scheme to see what the play design was. 

As far as I know, Maximum Football looks at the play type and if the quarterback is tackled behind the line of scrimmage.  If the play is designed as a pass from a play type that began as a run designated formation, it will still not consider the play a pass, as the game doesn't look to see if the linemen have blocked across the LOS.





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