Heavy Artillery vs GunBoats? (Full Version)

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wargamer123 -> Heavy Artillery vs GunBoats? (9/18/2008 7:03:13 AM)

Doesn't seem evenly matched.. I posted 3 or 4 Heavy Artillery/With Artillery Leader to remove a few gunboats but they just kept coming. To open a River it seems you are better off Gunboat vs Gunboat

anyone see it this way also? I've heard people praise CSA Artillery vs Union Navy, but I see that just doesn't work so far...



tbriert -> RE: Heavy Artillery vs GunBoats? (9/18/2008 7:14:43 AM)

I havent played the Rebel side yet, but I have found as the Union it is nearly impossible to defeat Confederate artillery in a fort along the river until at least 1863, as you need massive numbers and the only places capable of producing the craft for river use in the West is Cairo and Cincinnati, and they just cant produce enough.  In my AAR, Glory Road, there was one fight in mid 1862 where I massed 8 gunboats vs. Fortress Paducah, and lost them all, either damaged or sunk.  This was with good leaders attached and the proper number of CSC's.  So, my experience has been the opposite of yours, feeling it was overbalanced to the Confederate side.  Interesting to see your perspective going the other way.  When I finish my AAR in a day or two, I am going to start a game as the Confederates and see what happens.

Perhaps the designers or Erik could speak to the question as to whether there is an AI advantage in these river combats, which would explain why both you and I as human players feel that the odds are stacked against us.



wargamer123 -> RE: Heavy Artillery vs GunBoats? (9/18/2008 7:35:07 AM)

Winfield. I have read some of your AAR, interesting. I would think that Artillery would smoosh GBs. Maybe in my situation I was angst because 1 Heavy Artillery piece just didn't do it, so I moved in 3 to 4 with a Arty 3 General. I was trying to open up the Cumberland River for a retreat back in TN and 8-9 leaders were killed or captured along with 25,000 men.
When I attempted to move 2 GBs past Northern Territory with a 1 atk 1 dfns 3 naval CS leader, he bypassed 2 Yankee Heavy Guns.. So I think the luck factor may play here

Perhaps we need Ironclads or Cruisers in the Rivers and only Heavy Artillery on the ChokePoints where they do the most damage like Paducah-New Orleans?



Erik Rutins -> RE: Heavy Artillery vs GunBoats? (9/18/2008 11:44:06 AM)

All other things being equal, gunboats will tend to defeat heavy artillery in Level 1 Forts and will be defeated by heavy artillery in Level 2 Forts (Vicksburg, Port Hudson).

The Union has some outstanding naval leaders and (assuming CSCs are on) should have a Naval 4 CC and a Naval 4 CSC for maximum bonus on his gunboats. Definitely use them in a large group. Ideally, scout the enemy positions first with nearby cavalry so your gunboats know where the HA is, or use the gunboats as part of a land attack (don't attack except in conjunction with a land attack).

Regards,

- Erik



Treefrog -> RE: Heavy Artillery vs GunBoats? (9/18/2008 8:54:48 PM)

Riverine gunboats will all fire but only four defending HA fire each round during naval bombardment (bottom button on pop up tab). Exploit this. The concentrated fire of 10 or more gunboats with decent leaders will wear down the HA in a level one fort even if Pemberton or some other good artillery leader is with them; weight of metal I think.



BossGnome -> RE: Heavy Artillery vs GunBoats? (9/20/2008 2:39:31 AM)

My experience with gunboats fighting in the northern mississippi is that with proper sighting of the artillery beforehand (cavalry will do this nicely), decent commanders (Farragut in my case), and large numbers (8 gunboats), it is possible to inflict approximately 1-1 losses with confederate heavy artillery based in a fort. In one of my current PBEM games, gunboats have helped me a lot, freeing up the upper regions of the mississippi unexpectedly and allowing me to land a few amphibious invasions near Memphis. 



wargamer123 -> RE: Heavy Artillery vs GunBoats? (9/20/2008 8:25:19 AM)

You think an Ironclad instead of Heavy Art Gnome a possible method to fight off the scourge of the Union Navy? Or at least delay it?



Capt Cliff -> RE: Heavy Artillery vs GunBoats? (9/22/2008 7:23:03 PM)

Why are casualites for gunboats vs. heavy artillery given in terms of fleets and not ships? This might be a seperate thread.



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