Civil War II using JTCS (Full Version)

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marcbarker -> Civil War II using JTCS (9/25/2008 11:05:26 AM)

Anyone thought about how the file structure could be manipulated in such a way as to represent the Second Civil War in the south. I think it would be an interesting mod to say the least. Here is my idea and let me know what you think

Take the Germans redo for CSA Equip. oob's and such
Vichy France for alliance to the south while Britain remains neutral
Mexico and Spain staying neutral but leaning towards the side that concedes Texas and Florida.

Makes for a very interesting series




countblue -> RE: Civil War II using JTCS (9/26/2008 7:36:36 PM)

I havent thought about that certain subject but when I first saw EF 10 years ago I immediatly reconized the capability to model almost any military conflict from the smallest skirmish to army level within a time frame of the last 200 years.
Without modding.

All you need is a bit of imagination when playing and phatasy when designing.

For conflicts around that historical period you are mentioning I would use only inf cav and a few small inf guns with horse carriages, that should do.

CB





marcbarker -> RE: Civil War II using JTCS (9/28/2008 8:08:09 PM)

I was thinking more of a hypothetical modern civil war II




junk2drive -> RE: Civil War II using JTCS (9/28/2008 9:04:44 PM)

He's talking about Turtledove's stories.

Would be interesting.




1925frank -> RE: Civil War II using JTCS (9/28/2008 9:14:48 PM)

Doesn't TOAWIII have some hypothetical American Civil War scenarios set in the 1980s or 1990s?




marcbarker -> RE: Civil War II using JTCS (9/29/2008 9:34:55 AM)

cool i did not know it had it. I just thought about a reux of gettysburg or island #10 with wwii eq.




Przemos19 -> RE: Civil War II using JTCS (11/5/2008 8:13:38 PM)

It was III Civil War, not II ;]
II CV = IWW




Borst50 -> RE: Civil War II using JTCS (11/6/2008 1:11:58 AM)

seems to me...SPI, INC. released a game in the early 70's based on this same premise. Set in the 1930's north and south fought again, but this was a board game. I cant remember the title.




kool_kat -> RE: Civil War II using JTCS (11/6/2008 2:19:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Borst50

seems to me...SPI, INC. released a game in the early 70's based on this same premise. Set in the 1930's north and south fought again, but this was a board game. I cant remember the title.


Yep. It was called "Dixie."

Here are a few players' reviews of Dixie - not terribly flattering. [X(]

Dixie
Redmond Simonsen

"Lotsa Dixie haters out there, but I thought this game showed promise.. It was probably not helped by no "supporting" article in S&T and my perceived bias against alt.hist in subscribers of the day...I wish there was "more" to it; political events maybe and a bit more "wringing" out of the design. I liked the game concept of admin pts. as a brake against doing everything you wanted with your units all the time. But as a game purporting to show the 2nd ACW in a 1920-30s timeframe, it was a bit stale. I found if on defense you could build enough fortifications to stymie your attacker." DM

"One of the standards against which all other bad games are measured. I was looking forward to it, too. The South always had more brownie points, and so they could whip the pants off the more-numerous north. And where did the Western American Republic come from?" DAV

"A game that almost NOBODY liked - except me. I still have my copy and will play with anybody who asks. The concept of "administrative points" needed to perform actions was a ground-breaking one. And tank battles over the length and breadth of the USA in the 1930's - very appealing. Too bad Mason-Dixon didn't live up to the promise of this little gem ." SK

"I remember playing this one and thinking "huh - a Civil War game with armor symbols". Seems by the 1930's the US STILL couldn't get it's **** together as the command rules (a points system as I recall) kept the overwhelming Union army from walking on the CSA. Not terrible, not great - I think this falls in the mediocre catagory. I found the alt. history articles in S&T more interresting." JB

"Was interested by the topic but just couldn't get into it. As I remember it, it was very generic and the background of the alt-hist was lacking. I realize those are not strictly game play terms but those are some of the things that motivate me to play games." MJP





marcbarker -> RE: Civil War II using JTCS (11/11/2008 12:29:51 AM)

well...to each his own...i guess you could say the same for straship troopers, star trek, d&d rpg stuf.....you know it is all unreal at best but interesting none the less....what if germany invaded poland, came to terms with dixie, then allied itself with mexico....makes for an inviting unreal game...lend lease from germay...etc......Confederate Expeditionary Force on the East Front, etc...alternate timeline stuff albeit unpractical but fun I think.




Warhorse -> RE: Civil War II using JTCS (11/11/2008 12:43:02 AM)

I agree, this is why I made the K'talians for WW2, they can basically roll over any country with their 90's era hardware in WW2, but sometimes, especially later war, Panthers and such can cause surprises!! This was all based on Harry Turtledoves World At War Series with Lizard Invaders. I had it posted on Rapidshare, but don't think it attracted much attention, I have fun with it though, and am running a DCG in WF with it right now!!

Mike




marcbarker -> RE: Civil War II using JTCS (11/11/2008 7:22:25 AM)

very cool mike....kudos




kool_kat -> RE: Civil War II using JTCS (11/11/2008 5:38:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: barker

well...to each his own...i guess you could say the same for straship troopers, star trek, d&d rpg stuf.....you know it is all unreal at best but interesting none the less....what if germany invaded poland, came to terms with dixie, then allied itself with mexico....makes for an inviting unreal game...lend lease from germay...etc......Confederate Expeditionary Force on the East Front, etc...alternate timeline stuff albeit unpractical but fun I think.


IMO, a "good" game; especially one that deals with an alternate history subject must be both believable (or good enough for players to suspend their disbelief) and have rules that support / build upon playable and balanced game mechanics. Dixie; based on many players' reviews, fails on both accounts - a stale generic alternate history coupled with poor / inferior game mechanics - e.g. a "turkey."

Here are more Dixie details:

" I happened to be telling my wife about alternate history games and I mentioned the premise behind Dixie. Although I've had it for years I've never played it - my conversation spawned a nostalgic yearning to give it a try and I pulled it off the shelf.

For those that don’t recall Dixie posits the South winning the Civil War and the two combatants facing off again in the 1930’s. It’s a classic SPI folio game - 100 counters, 17” x 22” map and eight pages of rules.

The game uses some pretty novel mechanics for 1976. All activity (movement, combat, even bringing in reinforcements) requires the expenditure of “Adminstrative Points” (AP for short). Each side in a scenario is given a fixed number of AP’s to use per turn. Also, the turn order is not fixed - whichever side lost the fewest number of steps the previous turn can choose who goes first on a given turn. A couple of other minor wrinkles are present, all in all it must have seemed pretty radical in S&T 54.

I read through the rules and decided to give the first scenario “Alternate World I: The War for Hemispheric Security” a spin (love those alternative history names). The first thing I noticed was the flexibility provided by the AP’s. I started the USA on a determined strike into Texas and since I was able to use AP’s as a modifier in combat I was able to ensure a good start on my offensive. (The scenario requires the North to seize oil fields or a major city in the South.)

The CSA quickly recovered and pretty easily pushed the North out of Texas. In this scenario the South (I guess for being on the defensive) get’s 10 more AP’s. The advantage is significant. Dixie provides a lot of help for the defender. First, terrain effects are ignored for movement on your side of the boarder. Additionally a separate rail movement phase allows you to reposition forces anywhere on the map (as long as you stay on your side). These rules combine to allow a defender to quickly parry any concentration of forces.

The game also allows “dead” units to be revived and returned to the game as replacements. The initial USA offensive into Texas in my game killed a pile of CSA units, but with the CSA’s surplus of AP’s they were back in the game the next turn. It turns into a sort of a “Night of the Living Dead” effect.

The North then tried a broad attack across a few front. The decision of who should go first could be interesting. On a couple of turns the South had initiative but allowed the North to go first so it could use the defensive advantages described above to react, rather than trying to anticipate what the USA would do.

My game ended with the North taking Atlanta, but then being pretty easily kicked out and the CSA winning.

I found the game intriguing – the AP’s and variable initiative give each player a lot of freedom and possible tacks. Unfortunately I feel a lot of the intrigue and possible fun is lost when playing, as I did here, solitaire. I’m now hoping I can talk someone into playing Dixie and see if it works as a two player game. Despite its historical (in war gaming history) reputation as a “notorious turkey” I have some hope for it."





marcbarker -> RE: Civil War II using JTCS (11/12/2008 11:21:18 AM)

board games and charts are so different then then auto functions of a computer game. I magine if you will the 1st Virginia Cavalry fight alongside the 2nd SS on the Russian Front? Ewell's Division sluuging it out with the Brits at Dunkirk, The German American Division in support of the Army of the Southeast, Taking Cinncinnati then forming up with "Longstreets Corps" to take Pittsburg. 2nd and 4th CSA Marines with the seaborne assault of Operation "Dahlgren" the total capture of Portland Maine? The CSS Forrest, I-2 Sub patrolling of New York, "Morgans" Commandos - going in to blow bridges....You see the fun is in the imagination of how a game is being played vs unlikey adversaries. This is Just My Opinion




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