RE: Korsun Pocket (Full Version)

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Hunpecked -> RE: Korsun Pocket (7/22/2009 10:05:59 PM)

I just came across this AAR. Good read so far. A couple of questions:

(1) Presumably it's played under 8.403 vanilla?
(2) I didn't see a roster for the initial core. Did I miss it?

This one looks hard. I checked it out first under SPWAW 7.1 (for which I assume it was intially designed). The Tiger and Panther units are Elite and cost full price; I couldn't build a combined arms kampfgruppe with more than a couple platoons. I could buy a full company of Panzer IVH (normal, therefore discounted), but how well would they perform?

Looking at the campaign in the editor, I'm wondering if the German shouldn't play for a Draw in the first scenario ("Lyssanka Attack"), advancing carefully (if slowly) as VictorInThePacific suggests, aiming to conserve the core while destroying any counterattacking Soviets. The Draw is worth a point and takes the player to an "extra" scenario ("Lyssanka Defense") complete with replacement points and an opportunity to score more campaign points. In fact, given the outcome of the first battle in this AAR, perhaps even a DL would be acceptable if it spares the core. [:)]

Of course if "Lyssanka Defense" is even harder than "Lyssanka Attack", ignore the above. [:D]

Alby, I also checked out this campaign under ENH. I noticed that the initial core is now 3,400 instead of 2,800 points, but the first scenario support points drop from 1,000 to 300 (ENH 2008) or 150 (ENH 2009). I built a test core and managed to include a full Panther G company (Rarity ate my Tigers), a Panzer Grenadier company, an engineer company, scouts, 14 mortars, and an ammo carrier plus change. Was this campaign just too hard for the average SPWAW player with the previous point allocation?



SS Hauptsturmfuhrer -> RE: Korsun Pocket (7/23/2009 2:16:38 AM)

Hi Hunpecked,

I prefer to use the vanilla, patched version of the game because the campaigns and scenarios included with the game were designed for that version and therefore the most realistic way to play it. Being outnumbered badly by the Russians is good for me to experience what the Germans had to deal with. It seems this campaign is quite a realistic Eastern front experience. I have modified some small arms and infantry units in the game to be more realistic in stats with higher prices to compensate for improvements; for example, grenades, shotguns, rifles etc have been changed and this affects all armies the same way. So my sniper is a hot shot but is expensive and still liable to being killed as I found out the hard way.

For my core, I tried to match the designers recommendations and purchased 4 Tigers, 2 Panthers, 1 mech engineer platoon, 2 flakpanzers, 4 siG33 auf 38t, one 4 gun battery of 150mm arty, ammo truck, CP, forward observer, 1 sniper and a rifle company. All units are regular Wehrmacht recruits. I use support to buy recon, heavy weapons and transport.

You mentioned the campaign is hard and it does seem so which it should be. Historically they failed and faced very bad odds from the start due to the spring thaw and the massive Russian army. Win or lose though, I'll get an A for effort! I got Gimp and once I learn how to use it hopefully soon this battle will grind forth.



SS Hauptsturmfuhrer -> RE: Korsun Pocket (7/24/2009 9:21:24 AM)

I loaded up GIMP and learned how to use it but the screenshots from Steel Panthers come out all black. Fortunately, I tried Jasc Paintshop again and it says it will mercifully allow me to use it for up to 60 days even though the trial expires in 30 days.
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[image]http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll166/RodentDung/Korsun%20Pocket/Jack3.jpg[/image]

Artillery barrages are called in to interdict the enemy's next wave of attackers in the north and center, while in the south, concentrated off-board 105mm fire explodes in amongst the tightly packed cavalry scything them down.

Nashorns finish off the tanks which made it across Horseshoe Hill while small arms fire wrap up the crews. A lone surviving tanker successfully escapes from his burning tank leaving his comrades in the flames but is struck down by a bullet from the German sniper posted with the Nashorns on the southwest hill.

Colonel Stiegel receives frantic calls for support from the troops holding the northern half of Horseshoe Hill. The troops are in disarray and about to be hit by the next wave of Russian troops and tanks attacking out of the smoke up the east slope of Horseshoe. The veteran Colonel decides to hold back his reserve platoon and let the enemy wear themselves down on the troops holding the hill. He knows it is still early in the battle and a reserve should not be committed too early.

[image]http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll166/RodentDung/Korsun%20Pocket/Jack4.jpg[/image]

T-34s supported by some infantry make it through defensive mortar fire to slam the defenders on Horseshoe but this time the Germans hold the line and destroy at least two enemy tanks. Two surviving T-34s hidden in the smoke and trees rake the defenders with their guns forcing them to retreat another 50 meters. High velocity 88mm rounds from the Nashorns swoop over the hill sounding like freight trains which gives the frazzled defenders a morale boost. A T-34 is tagged by one of the big shells and explodes.

[image]http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll166/RodentDung/Korsun%20Pocket/Jack5.jpg[/image]

The heavy cratering and smoke is from the 105mm barrage which decimated the cavalry attack. Supporting Russian armor and recon units which always attack alongside cavalry have been prosecuted by the Panthers and assault guns on top of the hill to the south. One of the destroyed armored units is a dangerous SU-152. Another SU-152 is still active in the fog and has fired upon both a Panther and the forward recon troops. The view from the hill is poor due to the plateau shape of it so the forward security posts manned by recon troops are vital in spotting the enemy to bring fire down on them. The second security post has been attacked by cavalry and heavy fire from a SU-152 which pushed them back with two soldiers lost. There is a big crater where the security post used to be.

Estimated casualties so far for the Russians are 10 confirmed destroyed tanks with 2 more probables in the trees of Horseshoe, 3 confirmed soft vehicles, and about 220 casualties and many horses versus the Germans having lost one ATG and about 40 casualties.



Alby -> RE: Korsun Pocket (7/24/2009 4:06:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hunpecked


Alby, I also checked out this campaign under ENH. I noticed that the initial core is now 3,400 instead of 2,800 points, but the first scenario support points drop from 1,000 to 300 (ENH 2008) or 150 (ENH 2009). I built a test core and managed to include a full Panther G company (Rarity ate my Tigers), a Panzer Grenadier company, an engineer company, scouts, 14 mortars, and an ammo carrier plus change. Was this campaign just too hard for the average SPWAW player with the previous point allocation?

I have recently dropped intial points back down, dont know why they got bumped up in the first place..LOL, I am in fact re editing a number of campaigns as the OOBs have changed a bit over the last few years.
I dont recall changing the support/rebuild points for that one, but I imagine If I did it was because the artillery in ENH is cheaper than vanilla, so with all those support points, it could give you ridiculous amounts of artillery.

Look for alot of updated campaigns sometime in the near future to coincide with the release of ENH fr






Hunpecked -> RE: Korsun Pocket (7/24/2009 7:35:30 PM)

Thanks, Alby. I'll watch for ENH fr.

SS Hauptsturmfuhrer, did you consider using mines in the second scenario? Turnabout is fair play, and I know I'd be looking for some payback. [sm=00000622.gif]



SS Hauptsturmfuhrer -> RE: Korsun Pocket (7/25/2009 1:12:52 AM)

How do you use mines in this game? Is there a mine-laying unit?



Hunpecked -> RE: Korsun Pocket (7/25/2009 3:02:37 AM)

Two ways to use mines:

(1) Buy them in the support purchase screen. On the Misc page, at the bottom, you can click on the Mines/DT button to buy obstacle hexes in multiples of 5. Then during deployment , use the "x" key or click on the "mines" icon just above the right magnifying glass to start placing/removing mines, obstacles, and/or barbed wire.

(2) Engineers. Right-click on an engineer unit. On the left side of the screen near the bottom, just under "Set Range" and "Stance" is the engineer's mine setting. Left-click to switch from "Clear mines in front of unit" to "Will not clear mines in front of unit" to "Will place mines in front of unit". I only used the last setting once. When my engineers weren't busy moving, shooting, or ducking, they automatically placed a mine or two in the hex they were facing every turn until I clicked the setting again. I don't think you need to buy mines in advance, but it's a slow way to build a minefield in the heat of battle.

When I know where the enemy is coming, I like to place mines in a line of trees or smoke with infantry dug in immediately behind, and tanks just to the rear where they can cover several mined hexes. Not every attacking unit will hit a mine, but especially when my troops are green the "edge" a minefield provides may be crucial.



SS Hauptsturmfuhrer -> RE: Korsun Pocket (7/25/2009 3:19:10 AM)

Thanks Hunpecked, I had no idea that feature was available.  I'm gonna have some fun with that in the coming battles.  Had I known about this before, I would have placed my engineers on top of Horseshoe to place mines in the trees as they retreated and then I could have used the other platoons for the mechanized counterattack in the north.



SS Hauptsturmfuhrer -> RE: Korsun Pocket (7/26/2009 2:16:19 AM)


The crew of a Panther in the south panic and drive off their assigned defensive hill position after a big shell from a SU-152 scores an inconsequential hit on their tank. On the south side of Horseshoe, Russian tanks approach the infantry entrenched among the snow-covered trees so the troops pop smoke canisters to improve their odds of surviving the onslaught. A T-34 rolls up and is close assaulted with no results and the tank returns fire into the green troops who hug the ground in terror. It usually takes a couple of battles for new recruits to overcome tank fright.

An Opel Blitz truck on the southern road is destroyed by fire from a T-34 and then the last of the Soviet assault on Horseshoe is contained when three T-34s and one SU-152 assault gun are destroyed by heavy fire from the Nashorns and the newly arrived 88s being trucked in with the grenadier reinforcements. A flakpanzer sweeps the burning tank hulks with 20mm fire cutting down escaping crew members.

There is a lull after the Soviet attack and the Germans conduct combat of local significance to clean up the Soviet crews all over Horseshoe and the troops and trucks still moving throughout the Soviet rear areas. Colonel Stiegel and his staff personally take care of two enemy crews while the sniper knocks of another. Artillery barrages from the four gun 150mm battery continue to interdict the roads to the east hampering the enemy's preparations for the next attack.

In the north, the Tigers and mechanized engineers continue to attack towards the town. One Tiger gets stuck in thick mud while going through a field that has degraded to a swamp in the spring thaw just as enemy troops are spotted among the buildings nearby so the engineers disembark and prepare to assault the town outskirts. An enemy truck is hit by a Tiger and left a burning wreck.

[image]http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll166/RodentDung/Korsun%20Pocket/Jack6-1.jpg[/image]



SS Hauptsturmfuhrer -> RE: Korsun Pocket (8/2/2009 3:44:37 AM)


Southeast of Horseshoe, the remaining security posts are down to the Panzershrek team and the 2 surviving recon troopers who make good use of the rough terrain to improve their defensive positions while the ground emits the subsonic tremor of approaching hooves and tank treads. Cavalry backed up by a T-34 hammer into the positions and a hot firefight develops. The cavalry repeatedly charge the tiny number of defenders who pour small arms fire into the attackers which leaves the broken remains of once fine cavalry units dangled and sprawled amongst the knotted, leafless hedgegrowth. But numbers win again and only one panzershrek soldier is able to retreat from the onslaught alive but just barely.

To the nearby north of the cavalry charge, an attack by Russian infantry and tanks attempts to clear the top of Horseshoe Hill but is stopped short of the wooded area by German infantry fire which cuts down the attackers and destroys two tanks by close assaulting with anti-tank mines and damages a third. Crews from burning vehicles continue to be shot down by the infantry including by Colonel Stiegel himself.

Counterattack on the Town

In the north, the German counterattack on the town outskirts starts out with a combined fire from engineers, Tigers and an MG-42 to force back a platoon of Soviet troops who take heavy losses. A Tiger tank passes by a burning truck in the snow covered trees and is taken under concentric fire from two T-34s firing from the northeast and southeast. Shots are traded and hits are scored by both sides. The Tiger is damaged, and after bouncing multiple rounds off them, both T-34s are finally destroyed. The way is now cleared for the two Tigers on the road behind Horseshoe to move up and engage retreating men and trucks moving eastwards.

[image]http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll166/RodentDung/Korsun%20Pocket/Jack7-1.jpg[/image]



SS Hauptsturmfuhrer -> RE: Korsun Pocket (8/9/2009 8:29:01 AM)

Colonel Stiegel uses the slight lull in the fighting on the hilltop to send a messenger to tell the northern attack group to go slow and be alert for further Soviet assaults coming from the northeast region where the infamous Top Hat hill looms.  The one damaged Tiger stays in the trees next to the burning truck while the two Tigers on the road destroy a truck and various groups of men retreating east.  The engineers position themselves in the trees and add their fire to cutting down the stragglers.  Artillery continues to interdict the access routes to the area to slow down advancing Russian forces which have not yet been spotted.  The textbook attack on the town instantly changes into a desperate defense when four T-34s come down the road firing all their weapons at the damaged tank.  In the exchange, the damaged Tiger is again hit at least twice by 76mm shells and is sprayed down with copious machine gun fire while all four T-34s are destroyed by the three Tigers' combined fire.  The damaged Tiger is now immobilized with further systems damage leaving only two remaining operational Tigers to support the engineers' attack into the northern town.

On Horseshoe Hill, only four surviving riflemen are between Colonel Stiegel the next Russian attack.  The air metal density index soars again when tanks and infantry again hammer into the battered German defenders.  The four men holding the line of trees repel enemy infantry attacks and then repeatedly close assault a tank before having to retreat leaving behind another casualty.  When the tank crashes through the trees, Colonel Stiegel himself leads an attack on the tank but fails to damage it.  A pair of big shells come shrieking overhead from the Nashorns to finally destroy the tank before it can overrun the commander and his staff.

In the south, the grenadiers continue moving forward along the road using trucks to move up mortars and an 88 while an MG34 cuts down enemy cavalry and men from long range.   Despite the interdicting fire from two guns on the eastern road, an attack by KV-1s and infantry grinds forward and is taken under fire by the grenadiers and armor on the plateau destroying one tank and causing casualties among the enemy troops.   The view from the plateau is poor and it is planned for the two Panthers stationed there to come down and join the grenadiers once they reach the crossroads while the two assault guns remain on the plateau to provide overwatch.

[image]http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll166/RodentDung/Korsun%20Pocket/Jack8.jpg[/image]



SS Hauptsturmfuhrer -> RE: Korsun Pocket (8/10/2009 4:11:38 AM)

Colonel Stiegel finally allows his reserve platoon to move up two squads to bolster his own sandbagged defensive position among the trees.  This leaves only one squad and a fairly immobile MG42 in reserve.  While the move is carried out, Colonel Stiegel continues to fire at broken enemy elements, so far accouting for 4 units eliminated.

Fighting on the hill and on the southern road is ongoing.  Russian tanks unload Tankodesantniki troops onto the hill in the face of determined German defensive fire from the soldiers entrenched in the woodland.  Four Russian tanks are destroyed and the crew from a KV-1 abandons after multiple hits from a Panther and they are hit by HE rounds from the same Panther.  These crews together with the Tankodesantniki are pushed back by German infantry fire.  They deploy smoke and retreat into the sandbag fortifications left by retreating German units, but the fire continues and most of the Russian troops become casualties. 

Several more KV-1s together with infantry advance from the southeast over the remains of their cavalry squadrons.  One is destroyed but the thick armor of the Soviet beasts resists anything smaller than an 88 round.  Both Panthers move up to the edge of the plateau in the south and trade fire with the enemy tanks.  One Panther shrugs off a hit while a KV-1 survives 7 direct hits on its side hull from 76mm AP shells.  Long range fire from a flakpanzer and the sniper on top of the hill to the southwest of Horseshoe cull the advancing infantry.   The enemy infantry direct most of their fire at the trucks moving grenadier support weapons along the southern road.

While the firefight is in progress, the grenadiers successfully make it to the southern road objective where they prepare a hasty defensive perimeter among the shell holes and pop smoke along their front.  It is unsure whether the Russians will continue to focus on Horseshoe or wheel about and try and retake the southern road.

In the north, all is quiet after the destruction of the four T-34s so the Tigers with the mechanized engineers quickly move up and secure the town objective.  One engineer squad is transported back to the Tiger stuck in the mud to try and free it.

[image]http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll166/RodentDung/Korsun%20Pocket/Jack10.jpg[/image]



forgorin -> RE: Korsun Pocket (6/24/2014 6:03:07 AM)

This is cool.



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