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Crocky -> (4/24/2002 5:27:13 PM)
Tulagi Falls Us Forces stormed Tulagi this morning and captured the port and facilities ...Ground forces of the imperial army fought heroically but succumed to vastly superior numbers... The enemy however was made to pay dearly in a surface action near Lunga and the Air Force continued to take a toll on US transports and DDs manyrepeat many Allied ships now lie rusting on the ocean bottom

siRkid -> (4/24/2002 11:38:38 PM)
I can not even bring myself to describe what happened. For 30 min I watched the Japs send my ships to the bottom. I lost over 20 ships that turn. Mostly transports and mine sweepers but 3 or 4 CAs as well. The marines are on the ground but can they be resupplied? The marines are asking "Where the hell were the American Carriers?" In the real war the US pull the carrier support out but the Japs did not take advantage. I now know what would have happened if the Japs had of been more like Crocky. :(

mogami -> what date (4/25/2002 1:25:10 AM)
Hi guys, Whats the date in your war currently?

Crocky -> (4/25/2002 4:54:58 AM)
Major Carrier Battle!!!!!!!!! The date is 28 July 1942 and American and Japanese carriers tangled off Gudalcanal..............Initial reports indicate 4 US Fleet Carriers But I will let Rick have a look at his turn first before we post more.

siRkid -> (4/25/2002 8:38:36 AM)
Where were the American carriers? They were to the SE forming up into one fleet. This left my transports at the mercy of the Japs but I figured they would lose some planes to flak and operational loses and improve my chances next turn. I will admit I did not count on losing 20+ ships. The next turn was gut wrenching. If I failed, I might have lost the game. I moved the Carriers in range and set their orders to react. The battle lasted 30+ min and I have no finger nails left. My reports show that the Junyo took 3 1000lb bombs one touched of the ammo storage, Ryujo took 2 hit and the Zuikaka 3. I can only hope they are hurt badly enough to put them out of play for a long while. Sad to say but the Wasp took a torpedo. This victory should put the game back in balance. Admiral Kid will not be court marshaled now.:)

siRkid -> (4/27/2002 9:13:42 AM)
Things have quited down a bit now that both or fleets have been mauled. The battle for Lunga has started and so far the Japs still have the airfield. Now its a matter of supplies, subs and mines.

Crocky -> (4/28/2002 5:09:12 PM)
After 8 days of continuous Bombardment from B17 and and carrier TFs Lunga finally falls to the Marines........Rick is now in an interesting position..... his losses in transport vessels seem to be rather high if we continue to target them we may cause him massive supply problems while our supply lines are shortened considerably

siRkid -> (4/28/2002 6:12:40 PM)
Yes Lunga is in US hands and severl aircraft SQs have been moved there. Supplies are low and the island is still ringed with mines. I am almost out of mine sweepers. I'm not sure what I will do when they are all lost. I made a big mistake during my invasion. Thinking that the computer managed strikes would go after the larger convoys, I split all my mine sweepers off as single unit TFs. Will it did not work the carriers sent just enough planes to sink the unguarded units. Now I'm up the creek .

mogami -> So soon (4/28/2002 10:10:10 PM)
And all this action before August I am amazed. Both Japanese and US planners did not feel the US could undertake any offensive action before Oct 42. It was Adm King who insisted an attack be made on Guadalcanal before the airfield was ready. The original idea was to merely build up Santa Cruz. But he wanted to exploit Midway as soon as possible so 'Operation Shoestring' was born. I don't wonder at the heavy US losses, in this campaign but I do marvel at your being able to capture Lunga. I think that may turn out to have been the 'easy' part.

siRkid -> (4/29/2002 5:31:43 AM)
Well I am a very agressive player and short sighted. We have a long way to go and your right, the easy part is over with. I will most likly spend the next few months just trying to hold onto what I have. I would give a BB for 12 good mine sweepers. Rick

Crocky -> (4/29/2002 11:32:33 AM)
The big point in this game was the carrier battle 2 weeks ago which Rick came out on top of this has affected my ability to attack his operations around Lunga. So I had a decision do we fight for Lunga or let him take itthe decision was made that the units there mainly coastal defence and AA units (the engineer units were evacuated the day before Lunga fell) could stand and fight .....now Rick old buddy you have to supply this out post of yours as well as New Guinea and I know you have lost a lot of transports so.....let the battle of the supply lines begin... Oh and yes you can perform naval evacuations with fast transports ideally CLs and DDs another great feature of this game.

Point Luck -> The Game (4/30/2002 6:02:23 AM)
Ok folks how did you get your hands the game (uv). I,ve been reading and waiting and reading and waiting for this game for a better part of a year. I'm burned out on SPWaW and FF etc,etc. I need a new monkey on my back. I need my fix. Someone help.

Philbill1 -> Hang in there (4/30/2002 6:15:33 AM)
These guys are part of the beta test team, thats how they are able to play the game, however UV has gone gold so it should be available sometime in the first half of May. :D Phil

Point Luck -> Thanks (4/30/2002 6:24:22 AM)
Thanks I thought they where a beta team. I've been playing these games way too long. When I find a game that has this potential I start climbing the walls.

MalleusDei -> (4/30/2002 7:00:34 AM)
What's up with these capital ships being hit by mines? That RARELY happened in 1942-1943. Sounds ahistorical to me.

siRkid -> (4/30/2002 7:40:02 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MalleusDei [B]What's up with these capital ships being hit by mines? That RARELY happened in 1942-1943. Sounds ahistorical to me. [/B][/QUOTE] Actually, I have not had any capital ships hit a mine. Mostly transports, DD and some subs. I think one reason they have become such a major factor is my fault. I squandered away all my mine sweepers. Now I have to do it the army way, close my eyes and pray, just kidding.

Crocky -> (4/30/2002 8:55:57 AM)
Rick may not have had any capital ships hit by mines but the Kaga while taking a shortcut hit two putting her in dry dock for 6 months..:(

mogami -> Mines (4/30/2002 9:58:02 AM)
Greetings, As far as damaged or sunk ships I can find no reference to any IJN ship larger then a DD ever sunk or damaged by a mine. Mines did sink quite a few sweepers and DD/DE mercents and subs. But no CL or larger. This could merely reflect the IJN did not send these ships places without sweeping the area first. In the Pacific 1 US merchent was sunk by mines in 42, another in 44. a half dozen or so were damaged (the last ship sunk by mines laid during WW2 occured in 1947 the last ship damaged by mines from WW2 was in 1950) In the ETO mines caused much more damage to warships and merchants then in the Pacific. Not suprising really when you look at a map. The Germans had the entire war to mine the English channel while in the Pacific only the Solomon's area is one where comparable restricted waters exist for the Japanese. (US sub laid mines took a constant toll on the Japanese merchants around Japan) All US merchants sunk or damaged in WW2 by mines occured in South Pacific (Espirtu Santo and New Cal). (OK there was 1 ship damaged in Indian Ocean) They are most effective at limiting where the enemy will send his ships. (The book 'Harms Way' has a Yamato class BB and a Mogami class CA both hit mines before the big battle) (It also has PT boats sink a Mogami and 2 DD's losing only 7 PT boats:eek: ) Submarines on both sides hit mines almost as often as minesweepers. Often the mines they hit were their own sides. Minesweepers of course hit mines more often then anyother type ship because they go into more minefields. The mine is most often employed around friendly ports just to kept enemy submarines away. They really are used to close areas not to cause suprise damage. Around a friendly port you place minefields everywhere but a path in or out allowing more effective ASW patrols. Still if the players do not sweep the areas where mines are deployed and travel those areas the results will be different.

Crocky -> (4/30/2002 6:56:12 PM)
Quick update Rick tried to slip a TF made up of the Wasp and support vessels into the supply lines between Truk and Rabual..lucky I spotted him and he was sent packing with the Wasp taking a torpedo and a 250kg bomb Now that hes taking Lunga his sights are on the Russel Islands a TF land some Marines? but was driven off before it could complete landing troops and supplies An American Tf succeeded in bombarding Shortland and the tried to repeat the dose with a TF including the North Carolina:confused: unfortunately they were spotted by LBA and the NC took a torpedo and 2 bombs (back to Pearl maybe) Hes also eyeing up my forces I land in Finschafen should be interesting

rhohltjr -> Re: Mines (4/30/2002 7:59:19 PM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mogami [B] (The book 'Harms Way' has a Yamato class BB and a Mogami class CA both hit mines before the big battle) (It also has PT boats sink a Mogami and 2 DD's losing only 7 PT boats:eek: ) [/B][/QUOTE] Wow. Something in common with Mogami!!:cool: I read that book too. Movie shows only old CA 'Swayback' and 3 destroyers against the monster fleet. The book also had 3 escort carriers which did not make the movie, except at the end when Adm. Torry says '...seven ships sacrificed'. The book was better than the movie, but that is not unusual. Sorry John Wayne.

ftwarrior -> (4/30/2002 8:26:07 PM)
[QUOTE]They are most effective at limiting where the enemy will send his ships. [/QUOTE] They are, in effect, just friction since everyone knows where they might be placed.

MalleusDei -> (4/30/2002 9:42:21 PM)
Well, I talked to my uncle last night, who was USN in the South Pacific in 1942-1943. He says mines were "a total non-factor." And I can't find any references to any signifcant ship being hit by a mine in the South Paciific in 1942-1943. Can anyone else? This sounds bogus to me.

ratster -> (4/30/2002 10:13:06 PM)
The Japanese took quite a pounding from mines, during the war they lost 600,000 tons of shipping to mines alone(mostly merchant/transport stuff, small vessels). An allied CL was sunk by mines (3), don't recall the name (British or Australian). Mines are certainly capable of sinking any ship, given enough mines, and reckless ship captains. :D

Preacher -> What is the point? (4/30/2002 10:33:56 PM)
Seems to me that a historical handling of minesweepers and mine-avoidance techniques will produce historical results whereas an ahistorical handling of same will produce ahistorical results. Isn't this what we want the game to do? Preacher

mogami -> Exactly (5/1/2002 12:19:56 AM)
Thats correct Preacher. If the players ignore mines and just go into mine fields we will see ahistorical results. If they do their mine sweeping and keep their TF's out of minefields we will see more historical results.

MalleusDei -> (5/1/2002 1:41:50 AM)
Okay, I did the research. The total number of U.S. warships lost in the Pacific from 1942 to 1943 to Japanese mines is ZERO, I repeat zero. That's right. Not one. Now, the USS Tucker, DD-374 was indeed sunk by a mine in the South Pacific on 4 August 1942. But it was not a Japanese mine, it was an AMERICAN mine; the story is told on http://www.destroyers.org/nl-histories/dd374-nl.htm as: "On August 1, 1942, DD-374 was assigned the task of escorting the freighter SS NIRA LUCKENBACK to Espiritu Santo in the New Hebrides. Three days later, after a relatively uneventful trip, TUCKER and her charge were approaching the anchorage in the late evening when an enormous explosion rocked the destroyer. A minefield laid the day before by American forces had not been reported to TUCKER or the freighter. The destroyer�s back was broken. Attempts by USS BREESE (DMS-18) and the small patrol craft UP-346 to tow the stricken destroyer into shallow water almost succeeded. TUCKER was beyond help, however, DD-374 jack-knifed and sank in the early morning hours of August 4, 1942. Three men had been killed by the American mine and three more were listed as missing." Since mines had no effect on the war in the South Pacific 1942-1943, this ahistorical mines nonsense really needs to be removed from the game. Mines were NOT a factor in 1942-1943 in the South Pacific.

madflava13 -> (5/1/2002 2:06:01 AM)
I've been waiting for a game that models mine warfare since the early days of Harpoon and others... Even though they may not have had a huge effect in WW2, they were still there historically, and I believe they should remain in the game. I am really looking forward to sending Argonaut to mine the exits from Rabaul...

Preacher -> (5/1/2002 3:15:21 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MalleusDei [B]Mines were NOT a factor in 1942-1943 in the South Pacific. [/B][/QUOTE] Noted. However, before writing mines out of the code, we need to answer this question: WHY were mines not a factor in the South Pacific from '42-'43? Was it because they didn't exist? No. It is because the US took its minesweeping duties very seriously (as it should be). Mines weren't a factor in destroying US ships or shipping. However, were they not a factor in at least causing the US to focus some attention on the duties of sweeping and clearing? What about the extra caution or extra planning involved because of the existence - or possible existence - of minefields? I, for one, would like to retain this level of realism in this game. Also, I bet if we asked sailors who served aboard minesweepers we might get a much different response than "they were NOT a factor." :) Just some thoughts. Preacher

siRkid -> (5/1/2002 3:25:38 AM)
I am enjoying the bit mines are playing in the game. Are the results historical? No, but that could be because Crocky is spending a lot of effort mining the waters and I did not counter it effectively. The Jap AI is not as aggressive at mine warfare so playing it should not upset the historical balance. Rick Historicaly, the US Navy wuld not have sent the Wasp off on its own but I did.;)

Crocky -> (5/1/2002 3:36:23 AM)
Just looking at the game Rick and I are playing he has established defensive minefields around his major bases in an effort to deter bombardment TFs and subs from coming to close which IMHO is a fair enough use of mines....also there are the odd sub laid minefield around my ports ...so the minesweepers are busy

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