Capturing TKs and AOs (Full Version)

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undercovergeek -> Capturing TKs and AOs (11/16/2008 10:51:48 PM)

Is there any historical example of the escort of a replenshment fleet being destroyed and then simply capturing the tankers?

I ask because ive just sunk as Japan a convoy of 90k of fuel - surely, if usable the IJN would have been better rounding up the tankers and taking them to harbour - or was the fuel not the same?



Xxzard -> RE: Capturing TKs and AOs (11/16/2008 11:01:09 PM)

I don't know if it ever actually happened, but I believe the fleet oilers and probably many other tankers were armed and would likely rather try ramming Japanese ships before surrendering to them.

If the tanker was captured in port before it could be scuttled they would probably offload the fuel.



Panther Bait -> RE: Capturing TKs and AOs (11/17/2008 2:23:02 PM)

I don't think that a tanker or AO would have much luck ramming anything but the largest combat ships, and the bigs ones would probably never get anywhere near close enough until they were subdued already.  They just don't have the manueverability or speed to do so. 

Now I do think that the military-crewed tankers/AOs would scuttle the ships before they let it get captured.  Pure civilian ships maybe, maybe not, but I expect that most of those probably had enough military personnel onboard to manage a scuttling even if the regular crew was less than enthused with the idea.



rtrapasso -> RE: Capturing TKs and AOs (11/17/2008 2:35:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek

Is there any historical example of the escort of a replenshment fleet being destroyed and then simply capturing the tankers?



Not as far as i've ever heard... very FEW captures of ships on the high seas during WW2 (or WW1 for that matter) - i can recall only a handful, and usually those were small ships (<1000 tons) - a couple of U-boats were captured in the Atlantic, and a few weather trawlers as well...

Other ships were seized while in (or entering) port and many of these ships were converted for the capturer's use (including seizure of Axis ships in US ports at the beginning of the war).

One of the predecessor games of WITP (War in the South Pacific) allowed for possible capture of enemy ships (at least non-warships), and while i played it a lot, i only managed to capture one once (and it sunk immediately afterwards).



Shark7 -> RE: Capturing TKs and AOs (11/17/2008 3:19:30 PM)

Most of the allied ships that ended up in Japanese service were not captured, but had been grounded or sunk in port, raised then repaired by the Japanese. There were several examples, most of them small warships that were scuttled at the fall of Surubaya.



fairplay -> RE: Capturing TKs and AOs (11/17/2008 11:35:40 PM)

A number of ships were captured by German raiders. Some of those captured ships even made it back to France or Japan.(http://www.scharnhorst-class.dk/hilfskreuzer/hilfskreuzer_menu.html) A lot of those ships listed as sunk were boarded and then sunk as they were either useless or too damaged to be of use. If possible captured ships were used to replenish own stocks (fuel and food). The crew of these raiders were quite large as they included prize commands to bring back captured ships to German controlled territory. This is also true for operations of the "pocket battleships" (1940 to 1942).
These operations collapsed mainly when the supply vessels were sunk by British cruisers based on ULTRA intelligence.






canadaexile -> RE: Capturing TKs and AOs (11/18/2008 6:16:37 PM)

Didn't the british capture the 'Altmark' in Norway and released some prisoners. I don't know if the ship was then scuttled or not.



Dixie -> RE: Capturing TKs and AOs (11/18/2008 6:41:22 PM)

The largest capture I can think of off hand is HMS Audacity/MV Hannover.



juliet7bravo -> RE: Capturing TKs and AOs (11/18/2008 7:17:29 PM)

Largest IJN captures at sea I can think of;
President Harrison @10,500 tons (at sea, off Yangtze River, tried to run herself aground)
Tjisaroea @7100 tons 

IJN captured numerous ships in 100-6000 ton range at sea, China, Indian Ocean, NEI.  Captured/salvaged many more in ports, to include warships up to cruiser size (2x Brit/US DDs, a couple Chinese light cruisers?). 



Japan -> RE: Capturing TKs and AOs (11/18/2008 8:14:56 PM)

A  British Destroyer  Illigaly using Norwegan Flag, Borded and captured in total 5 German Ore Ships in November and December of 1939 (Prior to Norwegan joyning the Allies).  Cant remember the name of the Destroyer, but it did cause a minior political issue between Norway and Britain.      
Not to long after that incident, Britain Illigaly mined Norwegan wathers.  (All of this when Norway still was Neutral, before thay joyned the Allies).

The British Precense in Norwegan wathers had the intention of hurting/damaging the many German Ore Transport Ships going from Narvik to Germany with Swedish Iron Ore. This ships was later put under Norwegan Escort when traveling throu Norwegan Waters.
In June 1940 after the German invation of Norway those transports was increased hevely in quantety and had then German Air and Navel Escort when required.



[8D]



Shark7 -> RE: Capturing TKs and AOs (11/18/2008 11:39:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliet7bravo

Largest IJN captures at sea I can think of;
President Harrison @10,500 tons (at sea, off Yangtze River, tried to run herself aground)
Tjisaroea @7100 tons 

IJN captured numerous ships in 100-6000 ton range at sea, China, Indian Ocean, NEI.  Captured/salvaged many more in ports, to include warships up to cruiser size (2x Brit/US DDs, a couple Chinese light cruisers?). 


2 Chinese light cruisers. Ning Hai and Ping Hai, both commissioned into the IJN in 1944 as Isojima and Yasojima.



JWE -> RE: Capturing TKs and AOs (11/18/2008 11:57:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliet7bravo
Largest IJN captures at sea I can think of;
President Harrison @10,500 tons (at sea, off Yangtze River, tried to run herself aground)
Tjisaroea @7100 tons 

IJN captured numerous ships in 100-6000 ton range at sea, China, Indian Ocean, NEI.  Captured/salvaged many more in ports, to include warships up to cruiser size (2x Brit/US DDs, a couple Chinese light cruisers?). 

Yeah, I think Pres. Harrison was the biggest in Gross Tons. There were also about 7 or 8 Euros, 2 Brit, the rest Norwegian, in the 5000 to 7000 Gross range (pretty substantial little puppies), that got snagged in port at Saigon, Camranh Bay, Shanghai, Tsingtao, and Yoko-freakin-hama even.

You gotta love merchy skippers. “I don’t give sheet about no war, chust giff me cargo”.



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