So . . . how is it? (Full Version)

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FroBodine -> So . . . how is it? (12/5/2008 11:34:05 PM)

Traditional initial impressions to follow . . . I just want to hear some good things from actual gamers before sinking into this one. Impress away . . .



milkweg -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/6/2008 2:57:40 AM)

I have it running right now and only came here to post that the control to rotate the camera is just the right mouse button and not middle mouse button+right mouse button as a customer was told.

I've only just entered my first sector so can't comment on the tactical part of the game yet but hiring mercs, equiping etc, is very much like JA2.



SlickWilhelm -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/6/2008 4:55:09 AM)

It seems to have a very Russian flavor to it. Many of the Mercs are Russian, and there are legions of grammatical gaffes in the text. Obviously not written by a native English speaker. And that "personality test". Was anyone else saying "What the --" while taking that?

While it's not what I was expecting, it could be good campy fun in a different way than JA1 and JA2 were. We'll see.....



Joram -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/6/2008 12:27:57 PM)

I must be horrible at this game cause the very first area is kicking my butt.  Maybe I should just put it on easy level instead of normal.



Hertston -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/6/2008 12:40:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm

It seems to have a very Russian flavor to it. Many of the Mercs are Russian, and there are legions of grammatical gaffes in the text. Obviously not written by a native English speaker. And that "personality test". Was anyone else saying "What the --" while taking that?


The developers are Russian, I think. I'm afraid lousy translations are endemic in Russian games, regardless of how good they otherwise might be. How difficult can running the dialogue past a couple of native English speakers actually be?

Talking of Russians, has anyone played both Hired Guns and Alfa: Antiterror? The latter is my current 'genre' favourite despite some lousy camera controls. If so, how do they compare?



dodger bullet -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/6/2008 1:08:23 PM)

if you love alfa, you'll dig this one dude.

i'm with the vexed and bemused regarding russian games making it over our shore. they just don't translate that crap well -- unless it's big budget, stalker really the only one translated that was decent.  hope up coming patches refurbishes not just the bugs but the translation as well, especially the dialogues.

and matrix people, modders, anybody. can you tell me how the CAMERA in the INI file could be tweaked so that it can ZOOM in close to the NPC's faces? over their shoulders for a better POV, even?

in the demo, i just use the MOUSE SCROLL in the minimap. seems to ZOOM in more than normally.





milkweg -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/6/2008 1:17:03 PM)

Cleared the first sector with two of my Mercs taking heavy injuries. I'm playing on noobie level as that is what was suggested here by Erik and noobie level is tough enough for most. I like the game, Mercs lack a bit of the personality JA2 had but it's no big deal,although, I do miss not having Grunty by my side. I just skim the text and haven't notuiced any bad translation yet but if there is then I don't really care about that either. Its' the game play that matters to me and this is a decent little game, definitely a must have for any JA2 fan. Couple of things I have noticed, climbing onto roofs is much easier than in JA2, in JA2 it was a clunky process and in HG you just clikc on the roof and the Merc will go there. I don't see any option for opportunity fire, no way to save points for that purpose. Maybe I'm missing the option but I don't think it has opportunity fire. Apart from that the combat is good fun.



dodger bullet -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/6/2008 1:23:40 PM)

to me, the dialogue is part of the gameplay. immersion, what and where to go, what missions to go next. just a pet peeve when i see bad grammar in an otherwise seemingly polished combat engine.

playing in normal right now. other than game stopping bugs. the game will do until 7.62 comes out next year. or ever.



Erik Rutins -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/6/2008 1:26:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: milkweg
Cleared the first sector with two of my Mercs taking heavy injuries. I'm playing on noobie level as that is what was suggested here by Erik and noobie level is tough enough for most.


Make sure you read the FAQ if you're finding it to be tough going. Also remember there are ways to get through many encounters without a fight.

quote:

I don't see any option for opportunity fire, no way to save points for that purpose. Maybe I'm missing the option but I don't think it has opportunity fire. Apart from that the combat is good fun.


If you don't use your action points, your merc(s) with unused action points will have a chance (not a guarantee) of getting a reaction during the enemy's turn.



vorkosigan -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/6/2008 2:18:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: milkweg

Cleared the first sector with two of my Mercs taking heavy injuries. I'm playing on noobie level as that is what was suggested here by Erik and noobie level is tough enough for most.


I've just cleared the "North Road" sector, with 5 mercs, some minor scratches here and there. This was the fourth attempt, after getting my mercs slaughtered in "Wild Bunch" fashion. Difficulty level was the easiest.

My advice is to:
* have a squad big enough so you can cover flanks and rear
* have always someone as "sniper" i.e. high "Accuracy" as in 75+. If you're lucky with initial weapon selection at Dickie Jay, get your hands on the Garand. Digs big holes into people, good range, reliable low-tech.
* use the terrain - holding the high ground matters (here there's more "high ground" than just roofs)
* use the neutrals to your advantage ;)

Tactical combat in this game is somewhat harsher than JA2 (not 1.13 with those hordes coming your way, but if in this game I see a mob of 20+ enemies assaulting one my areas I think I will just shut down the computer in terror).

However, the logistics seem to be easier than JA2... you buy and get the weapons without delays or someone stoling the 5,000$ assault rifle you just bought... and mercs also become available without delays. But perhaps this is just because of the difficulty level I set...



SlickWilhelm -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/6/2008 3:15:10 PM)

I see I'm not the only one to get my whole team wiped out on normal mode in the first area. [:D]

I tried to go up and talk to a couple of the neutrals, but they claimed they didn't speak English.

Time to bump the difficulty level down.



Erik Rutins -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/6/2008 4:12:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vorkosigan
However, the logistics seem to be easier than JA2... you buy and get the weapons without delays or someone stoling the 5,000$ assault rifle you just bought... and mercs also become available without delays. But perhaps this is just because of the difficulty level I set...


Stuff from Dickie Jay will always arrive at the North Road - so it's quite convenient at the start, but once you spread out it has to be moved elsewhere in the country by one of your mercs. We definitely recommend starting on the easiest difficulty.



Erik Rutins -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/6/2008 4:13:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm
I see I'm not the only one to get my whole team wiped out on normal mode in the first area. [:D]
I tried to go up and talk to a couple of the neutrals, but they claimed they didn't speak English.


Read the FAQ if you haven't already for some tips. Personally I try to get through the first sector quickly by bribing the soldiers for papers and paying the contact for his car. That opens up the rest of the country for me, which is much more lucrative.



zknight -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/6/2008 5:25:02 PM)

A few thing the game does better than Jagged Alliance 2:

-Auto-loot upon winning. Also sectors have a big inventory screen so you can equip/drop stuff on your mercs from the sector map without having to go in and manually look for that ammo you left near some bush.
-Harder difficulty as mentioned, it doesn't feel like I can roll over 20 enemies easily like I could in JA2
-Different sized buildings, hurray 3D engine.
-You can walk/strafe while facing the same direction, in JA that would involve turning, walking and turning back even if it was 1 square.

Some stuff you'll miss:
-Merc personalities
-Total sector freedom. You can make choices here but it's not a sector grid like JA2 where you can go anywhere you want right from the start.

Good overall, I don't regret getting the game at all. Best merc game I've played since Silent Storm really and that one didn't really have a strategic layer to speak of.

Wish Matrix would publish 7.62mm in the U.S. so we won't have to wait for that one forever either [:D]




Tophat1815 -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/6/2008 6:09:03 PM)


Wife actually saw and bought this for me at microcenter.I had been bitching and moaning about when matrix would actually be able to release it.
*****************************POTENTIAL SPOILERS*************************************************


In any event I picked and hired my merc's,those that would accept a contract anyway. Got to sector North Road and picked-up the guide/informant fellow. I was then gunned down by the government forces,including that maniac I thought was just some civy with the government boys.



milkweg -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/7/2008 8:18:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins



If you don't use your action points, your merc(s) with unused action points will have a chance (not a guarantee) of getting a reaction during the enemy's turn.



OK, that's good to know. That's how it is in UFO: EU too.



milkweg -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/7/2008 8:22:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Personally I try to get through the first sector quickly by bribing the soldiers for papers and paying the contact for his car.


I cleared it with firepower and 6 Mercs. The dude tells me after that I can have his jeep but I don't see any usable jeep. In the road there is a blown up jeep and the dude has a rusted out vehicle in his yard. Where's the jeep he said I could take?



ShadoWarrior -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/7/2008 11:28:09 AM)

The jeep is not visible. It think it's supposed to enable you to travel faster on the strategic map, though it seems my troops move just as fast by leg.



Hard Sarge -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/7/2008 2:00:41 PM)

game looks like it could be a good one, but a shame it also looks like it is going to need some good mods, to get it that way

I wonder what kind of training camp the Programmers went to ? High Acc and the bum can't hit the side of a barn, if it fell on him, a M-10 with a Lazer sight (you really got to be a moron to not be able to hit something with a Lazer sight from 10 feet away)

30-06 rounds that seem to bounce off a person's chest, but 9mm rounds that kill with Arm wounds, shutguns, you know there are slug rounds for shotguns, and they are more common for hunting people then birdshot (leg, arm, chest, head, chest, head, leg, chest, head, and the guy got up and walked away ? (and he was rated weak to start with ? Militiman)

hireing Mercs, with weapons, but no ammo ? , even better once you hire the Merc, the store don't carry any of his ammo type, now that is just plain poor logic

and really, what kind of Merc outfit, goes into action with the main idea of, well, once we kill some people, maybe we can get some weapons and ammo off of them (beside don't seem like the dead guys give up the weapons they were using in combat, see a guy with a AK, kill him and he got a helmut on him)

gonna be a good game down the road, but needs some work/help




Hard Sarge -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/7/2008 2:14:26 PM)

LOL got to love a shotgun, since I been having trouble with it, just had shot at a Cripple lying on the ground from about 5 feet away (distance is still a little HARD to judge) and missed, had a new guy run up towards me, so, aimmed at his Leg (figured if nothing else I should knock him down)

hit him in the shoulder and killed him ?

(now will admit, at that range, a hit in the shoulder, would of course mean, no shoulder left, but...)

don't get me wrong, like the game so far





Joram -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/7/2008 2:27:57 PM)

I agree with Hard Sarge 100%.  There are a lot of oddities.  The game has a lot of potential but it's also extremely frustrating. 

Here's one example.  I was literally right next to a guy with a shotgun using "normal" rounds.  I put normal in quotes because I really think they are magic fairy pixie dust rounds based on what happened.  Anyway, I shot the guy point blank to the torso, do 2 pts of damage, he hesitates like some bad action movie and then he goes flying up over my head, bounces off a wall and somehow lands on the roof to the left of the merc!  But wait, on his turn he's now kneeling on the top of the wall, looking down like he's super freaking spider man and then he shoots my merc in the head!   Argh, very frustrating.

Another example with the "OC" rounds which must be russian for "freakin useless" because even hitting the lowliest militia, it is very rare for the round to do more than 2 pts of damage.  I once popped a civilian just to see what kind of damage it does and either the civilian is wearing body armor or the round bounced off his sun-baked skin.  Maybe they are all mutant turtles, I don't know.

The only gratifying thing I've seen in the game so far is the knife though it is somewhat laughable when your opponent goes flying back a few meters when you stab him.  But to quote one of the mercs, "I'm not psycho but that was satisfying!"

Ahh well, I'm not considering it a waste because I do have some enjoyment and I really like how they put in a strategic layer but not sure how much I can stand some of these oddities.  Shotguns in particular are the worst but none of the weapons really feel right.



Joram -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/7/2008 2:37:15 PM)

Just one more thought for the moment.  A lot of people been complaining about grenades but to be honest I don't really mind them.  My only issue is that the enemy just has so many of them and you have almost none.  That combined with the fact that you have little decent long range weaponry so it's near impossible to keep them out of grenade range, makes the enemies grenades all that more an issue.  I've fought about three battles only but only lost one person to a grenade.  I've had a lot wounded by grenades but if you keep your head down and stay behind cover, it helps a lot.  I would still tweak the game to either reduce the enemy grenades or slightly shorten their range or even alternatively, just give me some rifles with plenty of ammo.  But it is a bit unbalanced right now.



Erik Rutins -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/7/2008 2:56:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge
I wonder what kind of training camp the Programmers went to ? High Acc and the bum can't hit the side of a barn, if it fell on him, a M-10 with a Lazer sight (you really got to be a moron to not be able to hit something with a Lazer sight from 10 feet away)


Are you aiming at all? Generally shots from 10 feet away are pretty easy even without aiming, but with aiming they become a guarantee in my experience. I highly recommend that new players set maximum aim for all mercs to start with.



Erik Rutins -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/7/2008 3:01:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joram
Here's one example.  I was literally right next to a guy with a shotgun using "normal" rounds.  I put normal in quotes because I really think they are magic fairy pixie dust rounds based on what happened.  Anyway, I shot the guy point blank to the torso, do 2 pts of damage, he hesitates like some bad action movie and then he goes flying up over my head, bounces off a wall and somehow lands on the roof to the left of the merc!  But wait, on his turn he's now kneeling on the top of the wall, looking down like he's super freaking spider man and then he shoots my merc in the head!   Argh, very frustrating.


I can't say I've seen these flying spider-people, but it sounds like some kind of rare physics bug.

The minimal damage generally means that your opponent had some kind of armor on that your shot didn't penetrate. Normally a shotgun at close range is extremely deadly though. My most effective merc my first time through was a shotgun wielder with a high accuracy and strength and full kevlar jacket and helmet. He could pretty much fight all day long with little risk while knocking people down with shotgun slogs reliably up to medium range.



Hard Sarge -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/7/2008 4:23:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge
I wonder what kind of training camp the Programmers went to ? High Acc and the bum can't hit the side of a barn, if it fell on him, a M-10 with a Lazer sight (you really got to be a moron to not be able to hit something with a Lazer sight from 10 feet away)


Are you aiming at all? Generally shots from 10 feet away are pretty easy even without aiming, but with aiming they become a guarantee in my experience. I highly recommend that new players set maximum aim for all mercs to start with.



Erik, really, I am pretty insulted at that question, yes, I got max aiming turned on, and at most games, I am normally seen as at least a better then Ave player, so I do know how to play games (and I loved the JA games when they first came out, so know the basic system too)

I think a big part of the trouble is we got programmers who are the types who have never seen any of this stuff in real life

really a bullpup, and the bad part is the HIGH RECOIL ? I don't think there is any bullpup made that ever had HIGHH RECOIL (basicly, since that is part of the bullpup design is made for to start with, even worse since it is a 5.56 round)

and the whole idea of burst fire, being HARD to control and aim ? most of these weapons were designed to be fired with burst mode, very little training is needed to hold on target for the whole burst

I think it is going to be a good game, but it needs work



Erik Rutins -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/7/2008 4:57:20 PM)

No offense intended Ron, I've just had good success with close range shots while aiming, so I had to ask.



SlickWilhelm -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/7/2008 5:08:24 PM)

Geez guys, go easy on Erik. He's here trying to help. He's got to ask some basic questions. There might be folks playing this game without reading the manual and they might not know about the "max aim" toggle.

Anyway, I'm starting to have more fun playing HG, especially now that I've made the adjustments to the system.cfg for the camera. That made a huge improvement in situational awareness. I also finally managed to make nice with the officer by having Dagger go up and speak with him, unarmed, while the rest of the mercs stayed well back.

This does have potential, and so far I've not yet run into the breath problem that others have run into. But it's early.



Hard Sarge -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/7/2008 5:20:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

No offense intended Ron, I've just had good success with close range shots while aiming, so I had to ask.


No Hassle buddy, I know, it just hit me wrong when I seen it, if I had waited a bit, I would of replied different (I was trying to get back to the game: )



(just seems odd, shotguns seem to do better aimming at the legs, even from very close, aim at the leg and blow the top of the guys head off)



Joram -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/7/2008 5:36:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joram
Here's one example.  I was literally right next to a guy with a shotgun using "normal" rounds.  I put normal in quotes because I really think they are magic fairy pixie dust rounds based on what happened.  Anyway, I shot the guy point blank to the torso, do 2 pts of damage, he hesitates like some bad action movie and then he goes flying up over my head, bounces off a wall and somehow lands on the roof to the left of the merc!  But wait, on his turn he's now kneeling on the top of the wall, looking down like he's super freaking spider man and then he shoots my merc in the head!   Argh, very frustrating.


I can't say I've seen these flying spider-people, but it sounds like some kind of rare physics bug.

The minimal damage generally means that your opponent had some kind of armor on that your shot didn't penetrate. Normally a shotgun at close range is extremely deadly though. My most effective merc my first time through was a shotgun wielder with a high accuracy and strength and full kevlar jacket and helmet. He could pretty much fight all day long with little risk while knocking people down with shotgun slogs reliably up to medium range.


Actually, likely two separate bugs. One is the ragdoll physics that somehow lifted him up the wall and onto what I thought was the roof. The other bug is either his spider-like qualities or some kind of clipping issue where he doesn't know he's looking straight down the wall. Or I suppose still physics related where he can now defy the laws of gravity thanks to the pixie dust. :)

For the shotgun, fair point but I'm fighting militiamen and I'd expect a good portion of them to be unarmored or no more than a camovest, which doesn't really count as armor. In my experience it sometimes feels like they are all wearing assault armor (which I found once, love it!). Alternatively, it could be the shotgun itself that is messed up which is where I'm leaning based on other experiences.





zknight -> RE: So . . . how is it? (12/7/2008 5:40:09 PM)

Haha maybe it's a sci-fi twist like in JA2... we are actually fighting super power mercs modified though nuclear experiments. I had some weird physics things too, had a box fly up into my screen when I was zoomed out all the way until it took over the whole screen, then it started spinning and doing crazy things (after I shot it with a shotgun). So the common thing here is the shotgun generating some physics bugs...



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