9mm vs. .45? (Full Version)

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Trifler -> 9mm vs. .45? (12/11/2008 3:14:32 AM)

I was curious if anyone has found a good use for .45 weapons so far? I tested .45 ammo vs. 9mm ammo and they appear to do the same damage and have the same or possibly even less armor penetration. I have no numerical data to confirm that though. It seems like .45 ammo should do more damage...



Joram -> RE: 9mm vs. .45? (12/11/2008 1:56:25 PM)

With the adamantium like armor that is prevalent on even the lowliest militia, I'm not surprised you are seeing no difference.  I would expect a .45 to have greater knockdown power.



Foraven -> RE: 9mm vs. .45? (5/13/2009 4:11:46 AM)

In the stock game, .45 is inferior to 9mm because .45 is heavier, has less penetration and does no extra damage to make for it. In real life .45 mm have more stopping power than 9mm, but suffer from more bullet drop and their larger size makes armor penetration more difficult (but they kick the air out of you for sure :) ).




ZK -> RE: 9mm vs. .45? (5/14/2009 11:14:14 PM)

In the stock game 9mm HP does +5 and .45 HP +7 so they do a tiny bit more damage in the short span that enemies don't have body armor. AP in both calibers is -5 so a .45 will do one or two whole extra points of damage over a 9mm.

In the real world a 9mm sighted @ 25 yards will drop ~0.9 inches @ 50 yds. ~8.8 @ 100 yards. A .45 sighted @ 25 yards will drop ~2.0 inches @ 50 yds. ~15 inches @ 100 yds. A .45 does drop more but it's also less affected by wind drift.

Don't know enough about say about armor penetration. What I can say is the standard 230 gr .45 ACP has a high sectional density and penetrates soft targets quite well. Although the same can be said of the subsonic 147 gr 9mm's. There has been armor piercing .45 ACP made in the past by KTW and bullets of the THV/'Arcane' type(Devel of South Africa maybe?). Currently a Belgium outfit, Van Bruaene Rik, is trying market their AP design.

And lastly .45's kicking like a mule is a myth. Unless it's a ParaOrd, I've never understood why they use such lightweight recoil springs.



Hard Sarge -> RE: 9mm vs. .45? (5/16/2009 1:45:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joram

With the adamantium like armor that is prevalent on even the lowliest militia, I'm not surprised you are seeing no difference. I would expect a .45 to have greater knockdown power.


a while back, I was doing some reading up on this, and found out what the great thinkers are saying, and I must admit, it made me sick

there is no such thing as knockdown power, or stopping power

it is all in the mind, you react to getting hit by a bullet, because you have seen it on TV or in the movies, and in the movies, you know if you get hit by a .45 you are going to fall backward, the only reason you fall backwards, is because your brain is telling you to, as that is what the brain expects to happen, based on what you have seen in the movies

if it wasn't for your brain, nothing would happen, a hole would appear in the front of your chest and then in the back of your chest, and you would just stand there (until blood loss, would cause you to fall down)

(Hmmmm, wonder if your brain really knows that blood loss is bad for you ? if it didn't, then you wouldn't die from that bullet wound)

and these are people who have spent there lives going to schools to learn all that can be learnt about this kind of stuff

the bullet doesn't do anything to you, it is what your mind expects that bullet to do, I guess if you am stupid, you can live forever




JoeNapalm -> RE: 9mm vs. .45? (5/27/2009 5:59:07 PM)

Well, yes and no.

"Blowback" like you see in the movies, where people go flying around like rag dolls? Myth. Simple physics. If your .45 could blast a 180lb guy across the room, a 180lb dude firing said .45 would fly in the opposite direction.

"Stopping power" is generally meant in one of two different ways - one is the ability of the bullet to stop the target...dead in its tracks, so to speak. The other meaning is how well the bullet stays (or "stops") in the target. A .223 FMJ has less "stopping power" in this sense than a .223 hollowpoint, as the hollowpoint more efficiently transfers all of its energy to the target.

Both translate to the ability of the round to do harm, basically.

Ballistically (and realistically) speaking, the .45 is generally considered a superior round by most. It's also a big expensive round that requires a big expensive gun - and did I mention heavy? You can send more 9mm down-range than you can .45 in the same span of time, generally (recoil and reloads, doncha know?), and load more of it onto whoever's carrying it.

When all is said and done, it usually just comes down to preference. I'd rather have a .40S&W, but I haven't come across any of those in-game, yet.

-Jn-

PS - What is with all the body armor? It's kind of expensive for a rag-tag third world militia, no?



Foraven -> RE: 9mm vs. .45? (5/27/2009 6:55:50 PM)


quote:


When all is said and done, it usually just comes down to preference. I'd rather have a .40S&W, but I haven't come across any of those in-game, yet.

-Jn-

PS - What is with all the body armor? It's kind of expensive for a rag-tag third world militia, no?


There isn't .40s&w in the game yet, though it can easily be added (in my mod), i just know very little about that round so i don't know how it compare to other rounds. As for body armor, the dev had given them to about everyone in the game exept the butsi, but i'm currently changing that in my mod (should take longer to each faction to be fully armored like they are now).



Hard Sarge -> RE: 9mm vs. .45? (6/17/2009 6:03:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JoeNapalm

Well, yes and no.

"Blowback" like you see in the movies, where people go flying around like rag dolls? Myth. Simple physics. If your .45 could blast a 180lb guy across the room, a 180lb dude firing said .45 would fly in the opposite direction.

"Stopping power" is generally meant in one of two different ways - one is the ability of the bullet to stop the target...dead in its tracks, so to speak. The other meaning is how well the bullet stays (or "stops") in the target. A .223 FMJ has less "stopping power" in this sense than a .223 hollowpoint, as the hollowpoint more efficiently transfers all of its energy to the target.

Both translate to the ability of the round to do harm, basically.

Ballistically (and realistically) speaking, the .45 is generally considered a superior round by most. It's also a big expensive round that requires a big expensive gun - and did I mention heavy? You can send more 9mm down-range than you can .45 in the same span of time, generally (recoil and reloads, doncha know?), and load more of it onto whoever's carrying it.

When all is said and done, it usually just comes down to preference. I'd rather have a .40S&W, but I haven't come across any of those in-game, yet.

-Jn-

PS - What is with all the body armor? It's kind of expensive for a rag-tag third world militia, no?


Joe, if you follow my post, I said this is what the experts where claiming, and they disagree with your statements, stopping power and knockdown power are myths, it is the brain that is doing that to you, not the bullet (as I said, it made me sick reading what these office bound Brains are writing and passing on as fact)




Foraven -> RE: 9mm vs. .45? (6/17/2009 9:41:08 PM)

I always considered "stopping power" to mean "capability to kill"...

Hard Sarge: I don't think Joe is implying that bullet push or knockdown target but the opposite.



Hard Sarge -> RE: 9mm vs. .45? (6/27/2009 1:04:20 PM)

"Blowback" like you see in the movies, where people go flying around like rag dolls? Myth. Simple physics. If your .45 could blast a 180lb guy across the room, a 180lb dude firing said .45 would fly in the opposite direction.

then I guess you have never seen anyone hit with a .45 or a .50 cal, and your basic simple physics is not at work here, you are not getting the same force at both ends of the pistol, plus that is where venting and mussel  brakes and other things come into play, also different type of recoil setting (shocks, springs, blocks of rubber, vents, ports)





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