Way too hard to down an enemy at range (Full Version)

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DrFuzzy -> Way too hard to down an enemy at range (12/11/2008 4:37:55 PM)

A few things need tweaking here.

First off, maximum accuracy isn't nearly good enough. A merc with near maxed accuracy and using aimed shots still has a poor hit ratio at range. Maybe if we could spend more points on aiming it would make sniping less useless and allow lower quality mercs to still make good hits by spending all their ap.

Enemies have too many hit points. Even when I do find myself face to face with one they just seem shrug off anything I hit them with. At range it's taking nearly my entire team shooting aimed rounds just to kill one guy.

Hitting body parts is difficult and doesn't do enough to be worthwhile. There doesn't seem to be any incentive to use them unless you're point blank and feeling lucky. Aiming for arms and legs should be an expedient way of disabling someone without spending multiple turns battering through their armor.

I've got a lot of play time from JA2, Silent Storm, and the UFO series and this was by far the most challenging EASY mode I've ever seen in a game. It wasn't even because the AI was smart, it was because enemies were ridiculously strong, difficult to hit, grenade happy, too numerous, and I had no means to withdraw from combat or maintain a defense while the injuries piled up.

Even so I look forward to my next playthrough. Think I'll try all shotguns and see what happens.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Way too hard to down an enemy at range (12/11/2008 5:59:24 PM)

First question, was this with the beta update or the original release version?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DrFuzzy
First off, maximum accuracy isn't nearly good enough. A merc with near maxed accuracy and using aimed shots still has a poor hit ratio at range. Maybe if we could spend more points on aiming it would make sniping less useless and allow lower quality mercs to still make good hits by spending all their ap.


What kind of weapon are you using and with what kind of attachments? Moving target, crouching, prone, with cover? Keep in mind that combat accuracy is realistically much lower than "range accuracy", but if you can give some specifics we can see if something needs adjustment.

quote:

Enemies have too many hit points. Even when I do find myself face to face with one they just seem shrug off anything I hit them with. At range it's taking nearly my entire team shooting aimed rounds just to kill one guy.


Are you using AP ammo? Are you aiming for vulnerable spots? A lot of this can be the effect of armor. I've had good luck hitting legs from range.

Regards,

- Erik



GODSPEED7 -> RE: Way too hard to down an enemy at range (12/11/2008 6:10:09 PM)

Have you watched the movie Tears of The Sun? Remind you of something? I think if you we're in africa fighting... you'd be facing a force 3-4 bigger than yours. I think it adds realism... and what mercs do you use at the start? the cheap ones have the poorest accuracy ever! You remember JA2? Try hitting a target at a distance with a merc that had a marksmanship of 75... you'd be lucky to get a hit.. don;t be too harsh, because I think the game is pretty well balanced in that area..



DrFuzzy -> RE: Way too hard to down an enemy at range (12/11/2008 9:48:42 PM)

I took Forester as my sniper and gave him a PSG-1. When I have a shooter with 98 skill lying prone with a sniper rifle I kind of expect better results than taking three turns to hit someone, let alone kill them. Sniping has been a safe way to kill the enemy but it takes far too many attempted shots to kill than it should considering the skill and weaponry of my squad. I'm not going to repeat that cliched expression regarding the number of shots a sniper needs for a kill. Range hasn't seemed like much of a factor. He'll miss shots even when the enemy is fairly close.

It's only gotten worse now that every enemy in the last stage of the game has superhuman hit points. I switched over to using the minimi for short range because the burst from an assault rifle just isn't good enough anymore. Whats crazier is that even the 10 round burst of AP ammo from the machine gun doesn't always kill. I could be standing 10 feet from an enemy and hit him with every round and he'll still be standing there ready to shoot me afterward.

I'm not saying it's unplayable, wrong, or even unrealistic. It just isn't appropriate for the difficulty level I chose.



SeanD -> RE: Way too hard to down an enemy at range (12/11/2008 10:01:15 PM)

A lot of the problems are fixed with the beta update. Have you tried that yet?



Joram -> RE: Way too hard to down an enemy at range (12/12/2008 9:12:51 AM)

I've found you have to be considerably within max range to have a good chance of hitting someone.  I'm guessing it's about half to two/thirds range is where the % seriously falls off but since there are no ranges in game, nor target % hit, it's very difficult to tell.



Segador -> RE: Way too hard to down an enemy at range (12/14/2008 4:05:23 AM)

A merc whit Acc 100, a PSG1 whit laser and AP ammo, in prone position shooting a guy like about 15 meters of him. Of 6 shots and 4 turns he hits only 2 times and do 4 of damage. Very good for a high payed merc. I suppose Africa militia now wears power armour.

But this is not the problem, the problem is whem a you are hit from a cross the map whit a soldier armed whit a submachine gun, and my fully armoured mercs receive 34 damage. This as happenig a lot of times to me. So it seems appart from power armour they have auto target tracker to.

And this become even worse when you face guardsmen, you struggle to do hits and damage and they hit you every time for much more than you do. To add difficulty they shot always the same merc so in the first round i lose at least one merc. After this i have left the game in frustration.

Very frustrating for a Easy mode.

(I forgot, Beta Patch installed)



zonks32 -> RE: Way too hard to down an enemy at range (12/14/2008 7:09:02 AM)

At range and in close, I have seen enemy soldiers punch for 60 points of damage, then kick you to death after you fall to the ground.



Hard Sarge -> RE: Way too hard to down an enemy at range (12/14/2008 10:46:59 AM)

I am not totally seeing this in my game, my snipers have hit for 168 and 140 points of damage on single shots, I get a lot of one shot kills with them, I do seem to miss more then I would like, but on most shots that look like they should be simple shots, I tend to hit and do damage

there does seem to be a effective range with in the game for each weapon, the trouble is trying to learn it by sight (instead of a range number coming up with the mouse)

targets in towers seem to be overly HARD to hit

in closer, my gal with a Uzi gets one burst kills or crippled/dying bursts off all the time (her and my blooper man are the other two that are not armmed with Rifles or better as there main weapons)

I think there are more LOS issues then weapon damage, using cover and concealment and setting up good kill zones, I trend to do well, when I rush in trying to be Rambo I get hurt, of course the opening two rounds are normally the tuffest to get though





Hard Sarge -> RE: Way too hard to down an enemy at range (12/14/2008 11:38:36 AM)

I think the issue is slopes and LOS, the little dips and hills plays havoc with the ablity to score hits





Erik Rutins -> RE: Way too hard to down an enemy at range (12/14/2008 10:22:57 PM)

Those of your reporting issues, what difficulty level and with our without the beta patch?



IvanLeppa -> RE: Way too hard to down an enemy at range (12/15/2008 5:08:12 PM)

I have exactly the same problem with hitting stuff. Beta patch didn't help me at all.

Even at relatively short range good Acc mercs just seem to miss A LOT, even if they are next to someone laying down dying. *boom* miss *boom* 2 HP *boom* 2hp

Those 2pt hits are very annoying. Doesn't seem to matter what weapon or ammo I use almost always, if I hit, its a 2pt hit.

I am playing on easy.


// Reinstall and patch seemed to fix the problem.



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