From Utah to the Rhine OOB (Full Version)

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JNL -> From Utah to the Rhine OOB (10/12/2000 12:13:00 PM)

I've just completed the first scenario of the Utah to the Rhine Campaign. Got a decisive but that was after several replays (yeah I know - I'm a cheater). I fiddled with my OOB several times before I settled on one I liked. Who knows if I will care for it by battle 6 or 10 - but it got me through the first one. I used: 4 Sec M4a1 (76mm) 2 Inf Platoons 2 MMG Sec 1 FO (Foot) 2 75mm Light How Sec 1 20mm AA Sec 1 Jeep Came to 1400 on the nose. The idea is to upgrade the M4a1s to a3s (76mm). The Inf and MMG to Arm Inf. The Lt How and 20mm to 4.2 mort or 155 SP. Had to have the 76mm for the Panthers and StugIIIs. Would normally slip in a couple of M4a1 75mm to save points - but the German AFVs would have been too tough a nut to crack. I like the Arm Inf because of the M9 included and the extra BAR. The drop from 12 to 9 men isn't much of a concern since I like to mate up my AFV with a squad (hold over from my SP1 days). The FC at 3 for the Arm Inf is a plus as well. I've always liked the US Army artillery response time with on board arty. So I added my own FO and small battery as well. Dropping 4 to 6 tubes of any type of indirect fire on an Inf, ATG, or AFV will add enough suppression to move across open ground and not get zapped (usually) - when they go to 4.2 or 155 you can even count on the odd AFV kill. I'm curious.....what selections did the rest of you make with your 1400 points? While I'm at it......Wonderful Game.



Fredde -> (10/12/2000 1:18:00 PM)

1 Scout car platoon 1 M4A1 platoon 1 Wolverine sec 1 Armed eng platoon 1 Mech inf platoon 1 M16 mobile AA Only upgrade i'm going to make here is changing the M4A1's to the (W) version with a better gun.



Yurka -> (10/12/2000 4:54:00 PM)

3 Sec Scout Command car 3 Sec M4a3(76mm) 4 Inf Platoons 7 Snipers Snipers will be upgrade to Arty or other support stuff, Scout Cars to more tanks or TDs. Halftracks or Tracks fot infantry I bying by support points..



Arralen -> (10/12/2000 5:36:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by JNL: I'm curious.....what selections did the rest of you make with your 1400 points?
The 60mm mortar jeep is great .. even immobilized a Tiger I one time .. really lucky hit, save my day [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Arralen



Fredde -> (10/12/2000 6:17:00 PM)

Just too bad there isn't an ammo jeep following it.. it runs out of ammo very quickly [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img]



JNL -> (10/12/2000 8:15:00 PM)

My first couple of OOBs had 60mm Jeeps as well. The suppression value of any indirect fire weapon is significant. So an small investment in even a 60mm mortar is points well spent. That coupled with the US ability to call down fire with a .01 delay is invaluable when your driving M4s up aganist Mark IVs, Panthers, and (shudder) Tigers. Have a look at the Lt How (75mm) - its actually cheaper - has over double the range (112 vs 40) and has 40 shots as opposed to 30 for the 60mm Jeep. Ammo is really not a concern however - any indirect fire weapon needs an ammo truck parked next to it anyway. The down side to the Lt How is that your default rating is in artillery. The Jeeps default rating is in armour - so in terms of upgrade - you'll want to select the Jeep as a place holder - converts nicely into a direct fire AFV. If your going for an indirect fire upgrade (SPA or 105mm) the default rating for the Lt How is the way to go. Of course no human is going to let you get away with the Ammo Truck Circle tactic - makes for a nice target. I've noticed a couple of games the AI has thumped me for doing this as well. I struggled with the first scenario with only 4 to 6 AFVs - I really needed the couple extra tanks to stop the StugIIIs from the North - and really needed them to shut down the Mark IVs and Panthers from the south.



Wild Bill -> (10/12/2000 8:22:00 PM)

Very nice topic, guys. Interesting to see how you picked your forces. One particular unit I have found to be a big help is the recon leg unit. I purchase some recon leg units to ride my tanks. They are cheap and they take the bite out of a close assault. Also, I use the motorized recon units, jeeps and four men (with Garands - not Thompsons - range can be important) for serious spying on the enemy. Recon units see better than most and move fast. Again they are relatively cheap. Their life expectancy is short at best! [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/eek.gif[/img] Oops! Tiger tanks! [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img] I appreciate all of you sharing your thoughts on picking your units for your odyssey across Western Europe. Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



Wild Bill -> (10/12/2000 8:26:00 PM)

And of course, remember, that a decisive victory means you will probably skip a few alternative battles. For example, a decisive in battle One (Normandy) means that you will not be forced to retreat back to Utah Beach and hold the beach against a fierce German counterattack. And if you mess that one up, then you'll have to evacuate Utah Beach, no easy task, in the next one. Of course, in most cases only a major defeat will knock you out of the campaign. What fun is that? [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img] Besides, it's embarassing to read that you have been relieved of your command and are being sent back to England to shuffle papers. Or worse, A German Colonel consoles you as a prisoner of war [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/eek.gif[/img] Good hunting, guys! Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



Voriax -> (10/12/2000 10:14:00 PM)

WB, I finished the campaign...expect the final report soon [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] My original core force was along the lines of: 2 + 2 Shermans, different variants. 5 Armoured cars 3 infantry platoons 2 engineer platoons 3 recon squads FO 4 60mm Mortar Jeeps This force evolved so that the A0 unit and armoured cars turned to Shermans, I had 4 different variants in use finally. Infantry and FO stayed as they were, recon squads changed to rangers and the mortar jeeps advanced to M7's. I managed to get some of my tank crews to around 115 points of experience and the best one had over 60 kills.... [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Voriax ------------------ OOB-Wan Kenobi



Wild Bill -> (10/12/2000 10:45:00 PM)

As always, I look forward to your comments, Voriax. You did well, 60 kills! Sounds like an American Michael Wittmann or a Sgt.Pool to me [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Congratulations! Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



Wild Bill -> (10/12/2000 11:35:00 PM)

I don't think anything better portrays the real role of armor in WW2 than SPWAW. The days of picking 2 companies of tanks and rolling over everything in sight are over! Now you must realistically have a mixed force, armor to protect infantry and make those deep rapid penetrations and flanking moves...and infantry to protect the armor and fight their way, hedgerow by hedgerow or building by building to achieve their objectives. A commander who picks one to the neglect of the other will suffer on the battlefield. Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



PanzerMeyer -> (10/13/2000 9:16:00 AM)

My OOB is: An M4A1 Tank Company -minus the last platoon (The last platoon was replaced by M20s, to be upgraded later) Two Rifle Platoons and Two 2.5tonners to carry them. Two Regular Jeeps (to be upgraded to M10s) I know, its a pretty basic unit, but they have held up pretty well so far. The Riflemen now have M3s, The M10s are here and the HQ and First Platoon of the Tank Company are now A3 76s. Well on the way to a formidable force. Great Campaign Bill, really challenging.



Wild Bill -> (10/13/2000 9:57:00 AM)

Hey Panzer Meyer! Good to see you around these parts! Thanks for taking it on. I see you have a new one too. Good, I'm ready for some EF action. Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



Miku -> (10/16/2000 11:01:00 AM)

OK, I also finished the first scenario in this campaing. I spent quite a time modifying my core: HQ+M3 Scout Car, FO+M3 Scout Car+Jeep 60mm, 2x M10 Wolwerine TD+M4a2 Sherman+M16 AA, 2x M8 Greyhound+Jeep .50cal+US Recon Patrol+Bazooka Team, 2x M8 HMC Scott+Arm Inf Sqd+M3A1 HT+(.30cal MMG/.50cal HMG), 76mm AT+M3A1 HT, 2x2 US Ranger Sec (1 replaced w/ US Scout team due lack of points). As you may spot, there is clear split to two "battle groups". I usually like 3 (saving one as reserve), but even now I felt that my core was light on armor (and was right on that!). As support I bought 3x155mm OB ("crowd pleasers"), 2x81mm Mortars (waste of points), 3xEngineers, 1x57mm AT (would not have bought if I had known about AUX having these) and 1 sniper. I deployed my 2 core groups on upper 2 roads, and the support stuff on lower road town (this was mistake, as all action they saw was lone PzFaust-team...). The Mortars were waste of points because most of time they were out of contact, I think I got 2 bombardements out of them. Fortunately 155mm more than compensated :-) Now with hindsight I would ditch the mortars and AT-Gun for tank or two. My core teams advanced well, lower to that small town and upper to the forest left of larger town. My AUX were killing GE tanks with those 57mm AT's (as everybody has said, these guys need medals :-), and only problem I has was that my 60mm Jeep broke it's axle (yes I play with all options on, including breakdowns and C&C; I guess I am masochistic :-). Btw, when those 60mm Jeep guys managed to fix their car and move it to range, their mortar malfunctioned after one salvo; talk about useless unit ... :-) Over all, I got 2 vehicle break downs and 5-6 weapon breakdowns, still bearable but any more and I would have turned breakdown off (lost one Shermans main gun to breakdown, ouch!) My troubles started when those Stug's started apperaring from above and those Panthers from below. I lost Wolverine, M16, Greyhound and Scott to Stugs, and Sherman got immobilized (and lost its main gun to breakdown). Some of it was purely bad luck, some of my stupidity. Lost 2 HT's to Panthers, but otherwise my 76mm AT ate those ****cats alive :-) After I stopped those side attacks, I bombarded city with those 155m's (those definetely saved my game), and when I moved in with infantry the Germans were mostly running back home. Final score 8364-1358, which surprisingly was still Crushing Victory for me. I lost 4 AFV's, 2 APC's, 2 Jeeps and 119 men. Germans lost pretty much everything, with 28 AFV's, 7 APC's, 2 artillery and 496 men. I even lost one victory hex to that sneaky German MG-42 (did not notice this during battle!). I really thought I was losing at one point, but my last Wolverine and those AT-guns aided by Bazookas managed to stop German armor. Great fight! Thanks to you, WB! Mika



Spellbinder -> (10/16/2000 7:42:00 PM)

Gotta agree here, that this is one of the most intense campaigns I **ever** played within the SP series. Comin' back to the OoB threat, did anyone else purchase Dozers for the 3rd hedgerow scenario? I figured since this was the historical aproach (Ambroses "Band of Brothers") I wanted to give it a try, and it worked well, although Wild Bill definately set some **naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasty** traps ;-) Great Scenario - gotta love it!! Spellbinder ------------------ "Semper Paratus"



Windo von Paene -> (10/16/2000 8:26:00 PM)

Well I just finished the first battle last night, (and needless to say did not do as well as I have in Scenario play...). I chose along the lines of... 1 engineer platoon 2 rifle platoons 2 bazooka teams 2 Sherman jumbos 2 wolverines one recon team one scout team couple of halftracks a bunch of Sherman's of some variant. can't remember what else... more sherman's for support and a FO and a 155 howitzer. SPOILER . . . . . . . . . . Tough battle. Agreed that those AUX units deserve some medals. Rushed my armor up to support the AUX troops. DAMN THAT AT PILLBOX. Took out a Wolverine and a Sherman, and I still didn't know where it was. The Airborne in the northern forest performed admirably, putting a serious hurting on those Gerry tanks that came rolling up. Took out all but one which the Shermans took care of. The Jdpz's were another story. Got one early with an infantry assult, but had a jumbo trading shots forever with the other one, till a main gun malfunction put him in the role of infantry support. The Sherman's that didn't get killed by the AT pillbox had a very easy time with the Panther's in the south, killed three lost one, and one other got a little too close to an engineer squad... The STUG's were a different matter however. Only had one Sherman available to fight with them, and he got one or two before getting toasted, so it was up to my rifle squads to deal with them. Tremendous losses, but eventually the STUG's went down in flames. About the only thing that got me through this one with a marginal was the 155 artillery raining down on the town, (one cool thing about fast artillery on, WHAM, the entire town is covered by explosions), the brave AUX airborne troops, and a couple of support force Sherman's driving through the city streets to provide covering fire to allow the airborne to capture the objectives. Now if only I can decide how to spend my 400 upgrade points...Considering repairing all of my armour will leave me with 2 points...ouch.



Wild Bill -> (10/16/2000 9:19:00 PM)

These are some great AARs, guys. Thanks so much. I'm enjoying this thread very much. It also helps in knowing how different commanders think and choose. I've often wondered just what you all would choose to fight this battle. I'm very glad you are enjoying it. It sounds like the work put into it was a good investment. That encourages me to do another. Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



McGib -> (10/17/2000 7:34:00 AM)

1400 points? I only get 1300. And battle points option is set at XXX. I do have 1 question for WB. I noticed during my deployment that I also had 4 waco gliders as aux units. You made no mention of them in the briefing, so I'm curious, are they supposed to be there or what? ------------------ McGib Ready Aye Ready



JNL -> (10/17/2000 11:57:00 AM)

Actually your kinda correct - and I was kinda wrong (or vice versa). Total points for US in this campaign is 1350....with 47 points used by the US HQ unit. Leaving you with 1303 points for your core units. MILD SPOILER: I just completed the "Take the Hills Scenario" - sorry I don't remember the exact name. Current core: A0 converted to M4a3(76)W 8 M4a2(76)W 8 Arm Inf FO w/M3 Command Car 6 M12 155 GMC 9 AFV and 8 Squads was stretched pretty thin in this scenario. Only 300 (400?) support points so unit density was a little low. In addition Victory hexes were scattered widely. My current core is pretty effective (no elites yet unfortunately) when they mass together for a single punch. However when they are forced to split up a single immobilization or brew up becomes a real issue. I'm not sure which Victory Hex triggered the counter attack - but I was unable to bring my eastern (right side of monitor) forces (4 AFV & 4 Inf) to assist their comrades in arms. I was forced toe to toe with 3 or 4 PzGr Squads, 3 or 4 MarkIVs, 3 or 4 Stug IIIs, and (HOLY S**T - What's that??!?) an Elephant. I ended up losing 3 AFV (thankfully the crews survived) 2 full Inf squads, most all my Recon Inf (from Support). I've seen on a number of posts how the AB 57mm ATGs have contributed significantly to Scenario 1. However I have to give the award to a 2 man Recon unit: The Elephant had already shrugged off a number of 76mm tank shells - killed 1 M4 and forced a crew bail out of another. Absorbed 2 M9 bazooka shots and 1 Inf Close assault (Killed the Arm Inf - those guys had almost 10 kills too). He goes barrel to flank on my A0 (in his brand new shiny M4a3 -which is immobilized due to breakdown in the trees).....and is close assaulted by a 2 man recon unit. Kill!!!. Way too close for comfort. In retrospect - I wasted the Air Assets given to you in this scenario. I should have held on to them for the inevitable counter attack instead of wasting them on suppressing or destroying fixed defenses that I should have rendered ineffective by movement rather than fire. Had I been able to redirect the P47s, P51s, and B26s on the AI forces as they appeared I would have not had such tough time holding them off. Another excellent scenairo - in a fine campagin.



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