Let's talk ammo (Full Version)

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SlickWilhelm -> Let's talk ammo (12/20/2008 2:31:13 PM)

So gents, which ammo type is everyone using mostly?

From my understanding:

White= standard ammo
Blue or OC= Hollow point
Red or AP= Armor piercing

I think I've been using hollow point ammo most of the time, because it doesn't have the -5 damage penalty. But considering that most of the bad guys are using armor, is it better to use AP and take the damage penalty to get the penetration?



Hard Sarge -> RE: Let's talk ammo (12/20/2008 2:53:29 PM)

overall, it still don't seem to make sense to me

shot to the chest, -2, shot to the head -2, shot to the chest 140 , shot to the head 168

depends on the die roll I guess





Erik Rutins -> RE: Let's talk ammo (12/20/2008 2:58:15 PM)

The main thing causing those -2s (aside from grazing hits) is armor and the main issue with that was that the game was giving armor to some opponents who looked visually like they weren't wearing it. We addressed most of that in the first update. Overall though, I think AP is the ammo of choice for the mid to late game because it gives the best chance of ignoring armor. All ammo types have a chance of bypassing armor, but the chance is around 5% for HP and goes up to 99% for AP (depending on the type/caliber of ammo). Armor on enemies becomes a lot more common as you progress, so AP becomes more necessary.

Targeting places other than the torso can also help avoid armor, since the most common armor area is the torso (also the easiest to hit, of course).



Hard Sarge -> RE: Let's talk ammo (12/20/2008 3:12:50 PM)

I don't think so Erik, or the game is placeing goods on the dead at random, I worked over one battle, 2 of the dead had Armor, the rest had camo vests, and I was getting nothing but -2 hits

getting kills with Arm or Leg hits

agree with target choice, hassle is, Sniper aimmed at leg and gets chest hits, I had 4 guys fire at one guy, all aimming at the leg and got 6 arm hits

LOS needs work, alot of times if aimming for the leg, the target is "blocked" as not seen, while a chest shot is seeable, but burst mode means they are going to miss with most of the rounds going high

you know, old fasion Ball was known as AP (which would be white) HP are frowned upon in combat, but so are merks, so I do not know if the AP in the game is suppost to be something fancy, or just plain old ball (and where does .45 AP come from ? .45 works on weight and mass, it does not have the MV to be AP, other then being plain ball, in fact, .45 HP is seen as not worth the effort, as it is too slow to expand when it hits, so most .45 HP is very light weight ammo, to try and get some speed going)





Reinforce -> RE: Let's talk ammo (12/20/2008 5:10:02 PM)

Seems everyone is wearing armor, they don't look it but it's there and it seems to be way better then mine. I've taken over I think 5 area's at this point and have only looted 1 Kevlar Vest, Everything else is the Cammo ones.

I'm still near the start of the game fighting just Milita. I shot one in the head from a fairly short range at a full aim with venom, She was useing an Enfield Enforcer with the Blue rounds. Sadly I did -4 damage and that shot ended my turn and Venom was promptly shot in the arm for 40 damage on the Tangos turn. I tried the same thing after I reloaded my quick save but I changed the rifles ammo to the Red, Fired at the head and got -8. All I seem to hit for is -2 threw to -8s Even with AP rounds.. I'm starting to think weapon damage drops off or something every 2 feet. If I see anything higher then -10 I'm very lucky or I managed to shoot off whatever super helemt they have on. Becouse oddly if you shoot them in the head enought even people who don't have helmets on there models have helmets on and you'll see them fly off. You can then do some every solid damage to them... only after the Hats off though. I aim for the head becouse that seems to be the only part of the body where I can get threw to. Takes afew hits but I got a chance to knock that helmet/hat off and do some real damage. All the other body parts I find are just to heavily armored.

I am wondering though. We have OC ammo or HP I'm assumeing the OC is HP and we have AP.. Where's the good old FMJ? I haven't seen any for the Rifles yet. And if we don't have Normal white FMJ ammo for rifles what program do I need to mod these files and I'll add it myself.

Much Love,
Reinforce




Bishop746 -> RE: Let's talk ammo (12/20/2008 5:19:16 PM)

I was alittle confused about that too.  AP seems likes its some sort of speciality ammo but any jacketed steel core bullet can penetrate body armor.  Most militarys only use jacketed bullets because they may adhere to the rules of war set by international agreement and jacketed bullets have less problems feeding into the chamber.




Hard Sarge -> RE: Let's talk ammo (12/20/2008 5:35:29 PM)

for aiming, go for legs

you can do good damage to the leg and always knock them down when hit

also, with leg shots, when you miss, you tend to climb the body and then get chest or arm or even head shots

(plus if close and you use burst fire, you climb the target, you start off high, you only going to land one shot if lucky)

damage seems to be random, I have gotten 140-168 damage (head and chest)(those are pretty, body goes flying)

I have gotten 48 point leg shots, those will all but kill most early enemy troops

and now that you mention it, I have only seen white Pistol rounds

(that 9x39 comes with some mags with a white band around it, but don't forget the ammo color)





Erik Rutins -> RE: Let's talk ammo (12/20/2008 5:42:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bishop746
I was a little confused about that too.  AP seems likes its some sort of speciality ammo but any jacketed steel core bullet can penetrate body armor.  Most militarys only use jacketed bullets because they may adhere to the rules of war set by international agreement and jacketed bullets have less problems feeding into the chamber.


In the game, all ammo has a chance to penetrate body armor. HP has the least chance, normal ammo has a better chance and AP ammo has the best chance. I don't know how the actual penetration/damage formulas work in specific, but I know the basics.



Chris Bisson -> RE: Let's talk ammo (12/20/2008 7:59:19 PM)

In my current game I have had 3 misfires with Venom and a sniper rifle so far. Now these 3 misfires were each in different battles and they don't seem to have a good reason other than a very small chance to occur. Funny thing is that the rifle is at 99% to 100% when this happens and it only happens to Venom. Why does this occur? Bug? Feature? Very curious. Over all it happened 1 time in 5 battles as far as frequency goes. Just seems odd to me. I think it may be a feature becuse she grumbles something when it happens as though she is aware of it.

As far as ammo type goes, I use AP (red) ammo almost exclusively as soon as it is available. Always have in JA2 as well. There is no way gamewise to tell if your target has armor any armor at all, so I use AP since it wont be affected if there is armor on the target.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Let's talk ammo (12/20/2008 10:02:06 PM)

As far as I know misfires are random and extremely rare. I've played through twice and only had one misfire (so far).



SeanD -> RE: Let's talk ammo (12/20/2008 10:30:24 PM)

quote:

In my current game I have had 3 misfires with Venom and a sniper rifle so far.


Yeah that isn't really _that_ frequent. It's possible that a character attribute controls misfire likelihood in addition to the weapon's condition - I can't remember for certain but I wouldn't be surprised. As long as you keep up on repairing your weapons the misfire dynamic shouldn't really be ruining your day too much. I've encountered fewer than that but maybe I've just been lucky with the die rolls. [:D]

And at least it's your sniper that misfires. If it's Arny with a shotty at close range the effects can be a weeeee bit worse...



Hard Sarge -> RE: Let's talk ammo (12/21/2008 2:29:09 AM)

both of my snipers get misfires, my Heavy MG misfires too, I have even had the blooper misfire

my SMGs also misfire, I keep all my weapons repaired

I think it is just a random roll, and pops up the more you fire





clayog123 -> RE: Let's talk ammo (12/21/2008 3:08:02 AM)

Why do the "OC" ammos show + damage numbers in DJ's if they are supposedly inferior to AP rounds? When added to my guns the damage rating goes up, and I am getting huge hits in battle.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Let's talk ammo (12/21/2008 3:28:41 AM)

The OC (Hollow point) ammo does increase damage, assuming the bullet penetrates armor. The AP rounds do less damage, but penetrate more. If you're shooting unarmored targets or unarmored target areas, the OC rounds are better. If you're trying to get through armored targets, the AP rounds are better.



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