The First Team: Take Two!

The First Team: Take Two! (Full Version)

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John 3rd -> The First Team: Take Two! (12/26/2008 6:18:04 PM)
This is an AAR using Brian's 1.5 Version of his Scenario 192. It is the second start to this campaign due to map sync issues that Brad had regarding his download of Andrew's map. The Opponents have changed some in that Fog of War--formally Tally Ho--has joined Paul Layne (Wolfpack) as our noble--BUT DOOMED--opponents.

Q-Ball -> East Wind, Rain (12/26/2008 6:20:55 PM)
This time we have a bit more of a plan, and as of this writing, still making final edits to turn one. Hopefully it's a good one! Initial Plans: SE Asia, DEI I have initial control of operations in the DEI, PI, and Malaya. Overall, our primary objective is the conquest of India. The most important objective before this can be launched is the capture of Singapore; this is the only absolute pre-condition to an attack on India. For this reason, we are committing max effort to reduce this bastion. Everywhere else, the overall plan is to capture important supply sources, and otherwise isolate large Allied garrisons. Malaya: A total of 4 divisions plus support troops are detailed to Malaya. We are unloading 2 Divisions at Singora, the 5th and 18th, on Dec. 7. Imperial Gds is marching overland toward Singora. The 16th will unload approx. the 12th. The idea is that we save disruption from unloading over the beaches at Khota Bharu; a large force taking Alor Star will force a retreat from Khota anyway. Nells and Zeros from Kompong Son will hit Singapore Turn 1, with the primary objective of knocking out some UK Torp planes. (HR precludes Port Attack). To me the only Allied forces that can ruin our day are Force Z, and those torp bombers. DEI: The initial plan is to quickly establish an umbrella of Nell/Zeros from size-4 airbases, to stop Allied shipping in the DEI. After that, we will obviously need to clear the Allies out and seize the Oil and Resources down here. Kuching: An invasion convoy will sail from Saigon Dec 8th. Amboina: D-Day on Amboina is Dec 10th, from 2 SNLF forces out of Palau. This will be the first step in the Southern DEI. Initial Targets will be Amboina, Kendari, Koepang in the South, and Kuching, Tarakan, Balikpapan in the north. PI: The initial plan is to land in force on Luzon; we need to drive the Allies back from the supply sources on Luzon, to either Clark or Manila. Once they withdraw to one of those, we will likely reduce the Luzon campaign to 2 divisions and lots of bombing. The idea will be to starve them out. Initial landings will happen at Appari and Vigan on the north coast, mostly just to set up airbases and unload troops “from the Pier” D-Day on Jolo is Dec 10th; this will prevent the mass evacuation of units from the PI, or the use of AK’s to move supplies from outlying islands into Manila. Initial Sub dispositions: DEI/SE Asia: Subs are positioned to take shots at Tromp, Java, Boise if those TF’s remain on course. Others positioned in likely sea lanes, or approach lanes to Kuching. CENT PAC: All the subs around Pearl are moved to new areas. Some are moving b/w Hawaii and San Fran, and others around Johnson Is to maybe look for/take a shot at those CVs. Glen subs are forming a picket line through Gilbert/Ellice islands to be on lookout for CVs and other ships. Other subs moving to Solomons to support operations there.

John 3rd -> Tora, Tora, Tora (12/26/2008 6:47:56 PM)
The turn has been sent. Thank God! I have never spent so much time on a first move in my gaming life. There is no doubt that this will be a better move on our part. I just hope Nagumo remembers to take some of those new Torps to Pearl Harbor with him!

ny59giants -> RE: Tora, Tora, Tora (12/26/2008 9:18:37 PM)
quote: Amboina: D-Day on Amboina is Dec 10th, from 2 SNLF forces out of Palau. This will be the first step in the Southern DEI. Initial Targets will be Amboina, Kendari, Koepang in the South, and Kuching, Tarakan, Balikpapan in the north. While Tarakan and Balikpapan seem important to take early, I would take Ambonia, Kendari, and then Koepang (Lautem is fourth option). Close off the retreat to Darwin. Make it very difficult for any of their short legged LBA making it to Australia. 56th Bde can go to Kendari along with a BF. Kendari is the main source of supply for the Dutch early due to the Resource center. Basing Nell/Betty there will help choke off his shipping in the eastern SRA. I think its better to reach deeper and then come back to back fill those by-passed bases.

Q-Ball -> RE: Tora, Tora, Tora (12/26/2008 10:23:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ny59giants While Tarakan and Balikpapan seem important to take early, I would take Ambonia, Kendari, and then Koepang (Lautem is fourth option). Close off the retreat to Darwin. Make it very difficult for any of their short legged LBA making it to Australia. 56th Bde can go to Kendari along with a BF. Kendari is the main source of supply for the Dutch early due to the Resource center. Basing Nell/Betty there will help choke off his shipping in the eastern SRA. I think its better to reach deeper and then come back to back fill those by-passed bases. I agree completely, hence the early landing on Amboina. I would land Dec 7th, but don't want to be too "gamey" on first turn move, since that is not historical. But an early objective is to capture Timor and prevent P-40 transfers to/from Australia. I thought about leaving Mindanao, but I don't like to leave the resource center at Davao cranking out supplies for the troops there. 56th Bde won't be there long, just enough to capture Davao. The rest of the troops can starve. Tarakan can probably be skipped for Balikpapan.

ny59giants -> RE: Tora, Tora, Tora (12/26/2008 10:49:33 PM)
quote: I thought about leaving Mindanao, but I don't like to leave the resource center at Davao cranking out supplies for the troops there. 56th Bde won't be there long, just enough to capture Davao. The rest of the troops can starve. As an Allied player, I would rather lose Davao than Kendari early in the war. I don't know how many games you have played as the Allies, but your early war mind set needs to shift over to what will hurt the Allies worse. A rapid thrust to Ambonia, Kendari, and then Koepang is the worse news for an Allied player concerning the eastern SRA, IMO. Mini-KB or others carriers support this makes it very easy. Placing Nell/Betty at Kendari and Koepang shuts down any shipping moving out from Soerbaja south or east. Kuching cuts off the straits between Java and Sumatra. In less than two weeks, you can cut off Java and pretty much isolate the SRA from most shipping and some warships.

John 3rd -> Pacific Planning (12/27/2008 4:04:29 AM)
I just got done with a massive update on my Forlorn Hopes AAR and am on a roll so here I come. Japanese Planning: 1. Port Attacks Pearl Harbor We leave the 4 largest Japanese CVs (Akagi/Kaga, Shokaku/Zuikaku) to hit Pearl. Two Daitai of Zeros will hit the AF with a Daitai of Vals to drop bombs. That should be enough to inflict decent aerial casualties on the American Planes. The remaining 3 Daitai of Vals and all 4 Daitai of Kates will hit the Harbor. If we can get one Kate group to carry Torps life will be better and if TWO carry then life is great; therefore, NONE will carry Torps. Once the base has been hit I will retire SW and then swing around the southern Hawaiian Border and try to catch some fish... To support this, a TF of AOs will depart Kwajalein no later then December 10th. Manila Bay The problem with the first time through this campaign was that Brad and I tried to keep our CVs separate in the Manila Strike and we paid for it when the attack developed in two waves. This will no happen again. ALL remaining CVs are concentrated just west of Manila Bay. The attack upon the Harbor should comprise about 25 Z, 36 Val, and 100 Kate. Again if there are Torps dropped then we should get a much better result. I want to sink at least 6-8 SS on this strike. There are enough warships added to this concentration that the CVs will be reshuffled after the 7th into 2 CV TF (CarDiv2 and Zuiho in one and Ryujo, Taiyo, and Hosho in the other) and 3-4 STF that will catch fleeing shipping. By the end of the 3rd day I want at least 25 ships sunk from Manila Bay. We'll see. 2. CarDiv2 Moves After the Manila strike, my CVs will sprint southwards towards Balikpapan in the hopes of plastering some American warships. After two days here they will either swing southwards towards Timor and Amboina or move east towards Palau. It will depend on the situation. There are 2 AO at Palau fueling to help extend these ship's range and duration of patrol. Once Amboina is dealt with the carriers shall say good enough and move to support the Rabaul/Port Moresby Operations. 3. Truk A large amount of additional units are being sent here. Major HQ including Combined Fleet, 11th Air Fleet, an Air Flotilla, and 14th Army will handle leadership while the 56th Inf Div and South Seas Force provide the punch for landings at Rabaul and Port Moresby. Once these bases are taken the entire KB will unite to move towards capturing Noumea. Additional Fleet strength in the form of the CAs that hit Guam and 2 BC will bolster surface naval strength here. 4. Kwajalein Several large Naval Guard units, a pair of Special Base Forces, and 4-6 Con Btn will strengthen this base for its operations. Initial landings are planned at Tarawa and Wake. I don't believe in landing at these bases on Day 1 and so TF will be formed on the 8th to land about the 12th. A separate landing will be directed at Tulagi and Lunga for base preparation supporting the Noumea Operation. 5. Burma Thanks to Michael's suggestions and several lengthy chats with Brad we are changing the outlook of the Burma invasion. Port Blair A small Parachute landing by 1st Regiment will take Port Blair in the opening days. A small BF will be flown in so we can get air search units flying out of there by Dec 10th. This move should make the Allied players nervous I hope to draw the AVG down to Rangoon so it doesn't mess with the main Parachute Landing. Lashio On or about the 12th, nearly 150 Troop Transport planes will drop the 1st and 2nd Para Regiments to grab this important target. The following day will see an Aviation Regiment begin to be airlifted in with at least 2 Daitai of Zeros for CAP. If things are still going well then the 35th Brigade will airlift into the target area. The goal is to keep the Chinese OUT of Burma. If they are denied Lashio then they will try for Myitkyina. That will take more time and--hopefully--we'll have that base before the Chinese can reach it. Invasion Force Burma Army, another Army HQ, 2 Inf Div, 3 Tk Reg, 3 Art units, and about half a dozen other units will move through Rahaeng and attack southern Burma. 6. India We shall look at a solid invasion of eastern India once Singapore falls. A landing force of 3-4 Japanese Inf Div is envisioned for the attack here. The goal will be to play hammer and anvil with the Burma invasion coming up from the south and the Japanese India landing coming from the west. There will probably be another major Parachute Landing during this phase of operations. Those our my/our initial plans going past what Brad has already described. It should be FUN!

ny59giants -> RE: Pacific Planning (12/27/2008 10:14:23 AM)
quote: India We shall look at a solid invasion of eastern India once Singapore falls. A landing force of 3-4 Japanese Inf Div is envisioned for the attack here. The goal will be to play hammer and anvil with the Burma invasion coming up from the south and the Japanese India landing coming from the west. There will probably be another major Parachute Landing during this phase of operations. I would say the 3 or 4 division is enough to keep Burma under wraps, but no where need enough to take India. In this mod, India has a significant number of brigades with Assault Values just over 100. There are Indian divisions in Bombay, Delhi, and Calcutta with the 18th British Division coming before you will get here. You will need 8 to 10 infantry divisions, every tank rgt/bde you have, and all your para capable troops. You can do the usual Japanese landings on Ceylon, but you can also bypass it initially and land easily at Trivandrum - AF 1(4) with your para, construct eng, a large BF, and a few divisions to keep them honest. Columbo can be closed by your carriers first. My main landing would be up the coast Pangim - Port 4(4) along with a para at Poona to try to isolate Bombay. Both these landings are into clear coastal hexes (no combat bonuses). Any of the bases that have a BF have 9" and 6" CD guns that need to be suppressed. A SNLF and small BF sent to Addu Atoll will effectively bottle up the British Navy in the Arabian Sea. The push will be to cut off Karachi from the rest of India and isolate Bombay.

Q-Ball -> East Wind, Rain (12/27/2008 8:53:57 PM)
Dec 7th Opening Turn The first day went gloriously for the Empire, far better than our planning anticipated. By House Rule, port attacks could only be launched via flattops, so we split our attacks into one on Manila using Baby KB and Car Div 2 (Soryu, Hiryu), and one on Pearl using Car Divs 1 and 5. The results were excellent, with many BBs damaged at Pearl, and 10 SS sunk at Manila. In general, John and I will not be posting Combat Txt in this AAR, with the exception of interesting attacks, like the first turn port attacks: Day Air attack on Manila , at 43,52 Japanese aircraft A5M4 Claude x 5 A6M2 Zero x 30 D3A Val x 36 B5N Kate x 98 F1M2 Pete x 1 Allied aircraft P-40E Warhawk x 7 Japanese aircraft losses D3A Val: 5 damaged B5N Kate: 2 destroyed, 28 damaged Allied aircraft losses P-40E Warhawk: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged Allied Ships PT PT-41, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage AP President Madison, Torpedo hits 2, on fire SS Shark, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire AO Trinity, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage SS Sturgeon, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage SS Porpoise, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage PG Asheville, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage SS Sealion, Torpedo hits 1, on fire AV Langley, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage SS Stingray, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage PT PT-31, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage SS Seawolf, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage SS Salmon, Torpedo hits 1 SS S-40, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage SS Pike, Bomb hits 2, on fire SS Swordfish, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage TK Mindanao, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage SS Seal, Bomb hits 1, on fire SS Spearfish, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage AVD Childs, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage SS Tarpon, Bomb hits 1, on fire SS Sargo, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage SS S-41, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage SS Permit, Bomb hits 1, on fire SS Snapper, Bomb hits 1, on fire AK Princess of Negros, Bomb hits 1 SS Searaven, Bomb hits 1, on fire PG Tulsa, Bomb hits 1, on fire AK Sagoland, Torpedo hits 1, on fire SS Sailfish, Torpedo hits 1, on fire SS Saury, Torpedo hits 1, on fire SS Pickerel, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage AK Corregidor, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage DD Peary, Bomb hits 1, on fire MSW Quail, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage SS Sculpin, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage Aircraft Attacking: 25 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet 18 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet 18 x B5N Kate bombing at 9000 feet 18 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet 18 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet 18 x B5N Kate bombing at 5000 feet 12 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet 5 x B5N Kate bombing at 10000 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on Clark Field , at 43,51 Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 80 G3M Nell x 88 G4M1 Betty x 79 C5M Babs x 6 Ki-46-II Dinah x 1 Ki-15 Babs x 7 Allied aircraft P-26A x 3 P-35A x 2 P-40E Warhawk x 2 P-40B Tomahawk x 3 Japanese aircraft losses G3M Nell: 3 destroyed, 6 damaged G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged Allied aircraft losses P-26A: 10 destroyed P-35A: 16 destroyed P-40E Warhawk: 12 destroyed P-40B Tomahawk: 10 destroyed B-17D Fortress: 1 destroyed Allied ground losses: 193 casualties reported Guns lost 5 Vehicles lost 2 Airbase hits 38 Airbase supply hits 15 Runway hits 255 Aircraft Attacking: 11 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 11 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet 6 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet 6 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet 10 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 11 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 2 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 4 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet 6 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet 4 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet 6 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet 2 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet 4 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 4 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 2 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 2 x G3M Nell bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet 3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 5000 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 114,72 Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 72 D3A Val x 99 B5N Kate x 107 Allied aircraft F4F-3 Wildcat x 1 P-36A Mohawk x 8 P-40C Tomahawk x 3 P-40E Warhawk x 2 P-40B Tomahawk x 10 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 6 destroyed, 6 damaged D3A Val: 8 destroyed, 24 damaged B5N Kate: 12 destroyed, 51 damaged Allied aircraft losses F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed P-36A Mohawk: 6 destroyed P-40C Tomahawk: 6 destroyed P-40E Warhawk: 7 destroyed P-40B Tomahawk: 19 destroyed SBD Dauntless: 7 destroyed PBY Catalina: 13 destroyed B-18A Bolo: 2 destroyed B-17D Fortress: 2 destroyed A-20B Boston: 2 destroyed Allied Ships BB Arizona, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, on fire BB Nevada, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, on fire BB Maryland, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CL Honolulu, Torpedo hits 1, on fire BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 6, on fire, heavy damage AV Wright, Torpedo hits 1 BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 7, on fire, heavy damage BB California, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage SS Tautog, Bomb hits 1, on fire DD Bagley, Bomb hits 1, on fire CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire AV Curtiss, Bomb hits 1 DD Litchfield, Bomb hits 1, on fire AP U.S. Grant, Bomb hits 1 Allied ground losses: 120 casualties reported Guns lost 3 Airbase hits 23 Airbase supply hits 1 Runway hits 91 Aircraft Attacking: 15 x A6M2 Zero bombing at 2000 feet 14 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet 23 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet 16 x A6M2 Zero bombing at 2000 feet 25 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet 25 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet 26 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet 24 x B5N Kate bombing at 6000 feet 26 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet 23 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet Overall, over 260 aircraft were destroyed, including 11 Vildebeest Torp bombers at Singapore. Dec 8th in DEI, SE Asia Troops are unloading at Singora, and CAP is flying over this base already. We will finish unloading on the 9th, and be at the gates of Alor Star by the 11th with 3 divisions. Landings are progressing at Vigan, Appari, and Davao. On the PI, we are landing in force to establish airbases and drive the Allies back on Clark or Manila. Davao will be captured, and southern Mindanao cleared. The 56th Bde. will prep and be loaded pretty quickly for destination elsewhere, either Kendari or Koepang. Invasion fleets are steaming for Amboina, Jolo, and Kuching. D-Day for Amboina and Jolo will be the 10th; Kuching, the 11th or 12th.

ny59giants -> RE: East Wind, Rain (12/28/2008 1:56:21 AM)
25% of the Kates at Pearl launches successful torpedo attacks. The dice gods have "finally" smiled on Sir John. [:D]

Nemo121 -> RE: East Wind, Rain (12/28/2008 2:13:59 AM)
Can you give us a run-down of the differences between this scenario/mod and stock... I'm curious as to what is present that will change operational or strategic planning.

John 3rd -> East Wind, Torpedos!!! (12/28/2008 3:16:05 AM)
Pearl Harbor 0830-1035 Hours Over Pearl Harbor appears a Strike Force of 72 Zero, 99 Val, and 107 Kate that flew from CarDiv1 and 5. Taking a huge risk, Adm Nagumo leaves only 7 Zeros to fly CAP over his flattops. Surprise wasn't complete as 24 Fighters took to the air to attack the aerial armada. The Kido Butai's elite Zero-sen pilots, at a cost of 2 Zero, managed to shot down 20 American Fighters. Four managed to pierce the CAP and shot down 4 Val and 6 Kate. With aerial supremacy achieved, two Daitai of Zeros (CarDiv 5) attack the AF while one Daitai of Val (Shokaku) support by nailing Hickam Field with their bombs. The Japanese lose 4 more Zero and 3 Val to AA fire over the airfields. At the end of the AF attack, the totals for destroyed planes (air and ground) are 37 Fighters, 12 PBY, 7 2EB, 2 B-17, and 4 SBD==62 planes. The AF are hit a total of 91 times. The Harbor suffers as all remaining elements of the Japanese Strike (3 Val and all 4 Kate Daitai) crush Battleship Row. Fortunately the Japanese engineers have figured out how to safely make Torpedo drop in the shallow harbor. While the Vals mainly hit the Battleships, several do peal off to hit lesser ships to good effect. The center of the assault is, of course, Battleship Row and all 8 American BBs take a fearful pounding. Shokaku's Kates drop 800 KB bombs from 9,000 Ft while all THREE ([:D][8D][:D]) of the remaining Kate Daitai drop their deadly missiles into the water. So many Torpedos strike in such a short time that keeping tally was difficult for Commander Fuchida as he observed the attack. It is known that Akagi and Kaga Kates slammed 6 Torps into the Flagship of the Pacific Fleet--Pennsylvania while Zuikaku Kates pack 5 Torps into the vulnerable side of Oklahoma. That old battlehsip capsizes into the mud. The most spectacular moment of the attack comes when Shokaku's Kates drop their 16" Shells and ingnite a powerful powder magasine explosion with the West Virginia that blew the ship nearly out of the water. Battleships Arizona 2 Torps, 1 800 Kg and 2 250 Kb Bombs---on Fire Oklahoma 7 Torps and 4 250 Kg Bombs---SUNK! Nevada 1 Torp, 1 800 Kg and 4 250 Kg Bombs--on Fire Pennsylvania 6 Torp and 2 250 Kg Bombs---Sinking Condition California 3 Torp and 2 250 Kg Bombs---Heavy Damage West Virginia 3 Torp, 2 800 Kg and 2 250 Kg Bombs---SUNK! Maryland 3 Torp, 2 800 Kg and 5 250 Kg Bombs---Heavily Damaged Tennessee 1 Torp and 4 250 Kg Bombs---On Fire Other Ships 1 CA, 1 CL, 2 DD, 2 AV, SS Tautog, AP Grant Considering the debate that occurred within this AAR, I think this set of results speak strongly in favor of a 4 CV Strike to open the war. We got incredibly lucky to have 3 Daitai launch Torps AND get the Magasine explosion on West Virginia. I would like to have seen more hits to the CA/CL docked there but this is a smashing attack! Perhaps we'll get Pennsylvania too??? Losses were a little heavy for the attack: 7 Zero, 13 Val, and 15 Kates. There is a bit of constrenation when a small Pearl Harbor counterattack develops after the KB had it planes down in the hangar decks. A small force of 4 P-40 and 2 SBD follow the Japanese back to their carriers but are intercepted by 7 Zeros flying CAP. The Zeros shot down a P-40, damage 2 more, but cannot shot down the SBDs before they dive on Zuikaku. The Gods of War smile as both 1,000 lb bombs miss tot he quickly evading CV! I don't believe in double PH attacks so the victorious Kido Butai sails directly for the Marshalls to support landing operations in the Central Pacific. Manila Bay 0630-0745 Hours (local Time) Despite over two hours of warning regarding Pearl Harbor's attack, the Americans move very slowly to get the word out to clear the Harbor and establish a strong Combat Air Patrol over the harbor. The 7 P-40 that do lift off just happen to blunder into the Japanese dawn strike coming in from 120 miles west of Manila. The P-40s are heavily over-matched when they spot the Manila Bay Attack Force coming in with 36 Fighters, 36 Val, and 98 Kate. The Zeros easily brush past the P-40s (shooting down 3 for NO COST) and the Attack Force leisurely sweep in for their attacks. The Kates split evenly performing high level bombing runs and torpedo attacks while the Vals concentrate on the American subs. Roughly 30 minutes later the Strike Force regroups and heads home having only lost two Kate for their effort. There are several spectacular moments as Soryu's planes get massive explosions that sink SS Sargo, SS Porpoise and AV Langley. Soryu's Kates also disentegrate AVD Childs with 3 Tropedo hits in 1 mimute. CVL Zuiho has a Kate blow-up the old S-Boat S-41. The final tally for their attack ends up with 8 SS, 2 S-Boats, AV Langley, AVD Childs, a PG, and 2 PT sunk. A further 12 SS, 1 S-Boat, 1 DD, 1 MSW, 1 PG, 1 AO, 1 TK, 3 AK, and AP are damaged. As the pilots return to their respective commands they can see smoke along the northern horizon as Clark Field is crushed. Maginicient results with magasine explosions scored 3 times in the attack. The Asiatic SS Force is out of the war for the next few months! The Japanese Admirals split up with Yamaguchi making a sprint southwards towards Tarakan and Yamada taking the Mini-KB about 180 miles south. They, too, do not worry about a second port attack on Manila Bay. IT is known that nearly 150 Nells/Betty plan to hit the damaged ships remaining in the harbor on the 8th. Clark Field 0815 Hours (local time) The beginning of the war finds Clark Field horrifically unprepared. Though they have had 3-4 hours of warning, the American planes are caught largely on the ground as the fury of the Formosa Strike crushes the American base. Just 10 Fighters are on CAP when 80 Zero, and 167 Nell/Betty sweep down from the northwest. All 10 fighters in the air are destroyed as well as another 38 fighters and 1 B-17 on the ground. The AF is hit nearly 280 times during the attack. WOW! Clark Field is out for the remainder of the Philippine Campaign. Malaya Throughout the morning many British AFs in Malaya are hit. Georgetown, Alor Star, Kota Bharu, and Singapore are hit. Only at Singapore is there any real resistance when 8 Brewsters attempt to intercept 25 Zero and 93 Nells hitting the AF there. The Brewsters are swept aside at a cost of 2 Zero and weak AA hardly bothers the bombardiers as they drop their bombloads on the AF below. The Japanese only lose 2 Zero in exchange for 6 Brewsters, 2 Blenheim, 12 TB, and a PBY. Each targeted AF gets hit and is damaged. Throughout the Central Pacific numerous convoys carry Japanese troops, supplies, and fuel to Truk, Kwajalein, and Palau. Landings are made on Guam, Batan Isle, Davao, Vigan and at Aparri. British Recon spots huge numbers of Japanese troops unloading from a myriad of ships at Singora. Intelligence reports a similar situation at Bangkok. At Kwajalein, troops begin to load onto the Wake Island Invasion Force, Tarawa Force, and Nauru Force... THAT is the first day of this campaign. Any thoughts/questions???

John 3rd -> Philippine Strategy (12/28/2008 4:17:09 AM)
This is pretty simple: [image]local://upfiles/18041/02067DCA4265455C88F6CD9695E7B301.jpg[/image]

John 3rd -> Dec 7th Sinkings (12/28/2008 4:21:40 AM)
Here is the butcher's bill for Day ONE: [image]local://upfiles/18041/55D525F3D1254A57831D3264DEB56086.jpg[/image]

Q-Ball -> RE: East Wind, Rain (12/28/2008 4:33:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nemo121 Can you give us a run-down of the differences between this scenario/mod and stock... I'm curious as to what is present that will change operational or strategic planning. Great question, Nemo. I would rather Big B himself comment, but the primary differences are in two areas: A 2 A, and China. In Air to Air, in general combat is less bloody. A premium is placed on maneuverability, and those ratings have been increased across the board. This means the Oscar isn't completely useless, and in general, that air combat has fewer losses. In China, the change is significant. There are ALOT more Chinese troops; however, many of these are Static, and can only move if you force them out of the hex. This means that China is much more likely to repeat the historical situation, and develop into a stalemate. China is much harder to conquer in Big B. This changes strategic planning, in that it is harder to gain points here, but easier to draw troops from. Other than that, there are alot of historical OOB changes and whatnot that lead to a better game. I like the Big-B mod and have played it several times.

John 3rd -> RE: East Wind, Rain (12/28/2008 7:19:13 AM)
HUGE Fan of Brian's work!

John 3rd -> China Options (12/28/2008 7:32:06 AM)
Brad and I HATE CHINA! Brian's Mod puts lots of Chinese units on the board but they are static until attacked. If we leave them alone they leave us alone! Brad and I don't have a real clear idea as to what to try and accomplish within this theatre. My experience has been terrible in my Forlorn Hopes AAR so we must do better. Initial thoughts could be to clear Wuchow and try to open the supply line from Hanoi coming east towards Canton. If we could do JUST that it would be a real improvement. Anyone have any input for us here? [image]local://upfiles/18041/863D45A6814C45F6A690CF4067DE68B3.jpg[/image]

John 3rd -> Strategic Vision (12/28/2008 7:53:29 AM)
I have no clear visions for how we take eastern India and all of Burma. Brad and I have been exchanging emails and I've spoken with Michael on the phone today brainstorming. The fundamental question is do we go for the Indian Throat and try to take the whole place or do we take a big bite, dig in, and hold? Both options are audacious but I am not sure which is better. As I note on this screenshot perhaps a better idea is to take our time starting the Burma Offensive to make the guys THINK we're not coming full bore at them. Brad suggested we start prepping some China/Manchurian troops for Australia and hope that Allied Intelligence picks up on this. I think that is a great idea! Fog of War (Tally Ho) had read our initial AAR and knows what we were planning. IF we make it look like we are going elsewhere then perhaps we can still achieve a level of surprise. Brad said earlier today that once Singapore falls we should embark that entire Army (4 Inf Div plus lots of support) and immediately swing it at India. Figure Singapore falls by January 15th, we could land an Invasion at Cuttack or Viza by mid-February. Add the Army coming up from southern Burma (3 Inf Div and support) and we might have a real shot at something. Brad and Michael also started talking about units to pull from China and Manchuria to support this move. I agree with them that we pull ALL Tanks and some of the Heavy Artillery units out of these locations to augment the units moving into India. This is a lot of thinking, strategizing, and contemplation. Anyone got any bright ideas??? [image]local://upfiles/18041/B689647F8EE1444D972392A0371E51CE.jpg[/image]

2ndACR -> RE: Strategic Vision (12/28/2008 10:45:13 AM)
Suck as many troops into Burma as you can before hitting India. Grab a count of units at start, all over India, note major troops, keep the watching Bruma. If you see 20+ units at Mandalay, well he stripped India of a good portion. I would hit Viz unless you go after Ceylon first. Only draw back is there are multiple airfields on both side to hit you from.

castor troy -> RE: Strategic Vision (12/28/2008 11:03:13 AM)
The biggest advantage for the Allied in China in BigB mod is the fact that they´ve got so many more units - static units. And that´s their biggest disadvantage at the same time. The goal is to surround them and if you keep them surrounded, they die. You can mass your troops for attacks and you don´t have to keep thousands of assault points at other fronts as most of the enemy units are static anyway. Of course you DON`T want to strip your frontlines totally, keep a couple of bgds behind high level forts and if your enemy reacts to your offensives with a counteroffensive he will soon find out that he can´t break your forts and he can´t afford the supply usage. You still have the advantage of having more units that can move, you have tanks and you can bring in the supply you need. And this is the next major disadvantage of the Chinese units. I know that Brian has adjusted the supply production to the now bigger number of units. BUT supply is still a big issue for the Chinese. And if you surround the enemy and destroy him, then those units will come back at 1/3 strenght at Chungking. A Chinese corps with 100 assault points and not much supply isn´t a threat and those units won´t grow as there won´t be a lot of supplies at Chungking once you get your offensives going.

ny59giants -> RE: Strategic Vision (12/28/2008 2:05:43 PM)
More on China with you needing to divide it into the north vs south from an Allied perspective. North If you want to add more to your economy, go here. You will have HI, Resources, and Oil by capturing Lanchow, Sian, and Yenan. They have only trails connecting him with his major supply at Chingking. Plus, he will have trouble sending troops up here. Most of the troop are static. South Changsha and Wuchow add HI and Resources to your economy. He has a lot more LCU with a significant amount non-static. Surrounding and killing them in mass will be more difficult. So....

Canoerebel -> RE: Strategic Vision (12/28/2008 2:42:59 PM)
Myth: Most Chinese units are static in Big B. The Chinese have ALOT of mobile troops. If the Allies keep most Chinese units in China it would be very easy to defend Changsha and probably Wuchow. A simultaneous massed Jap attack north from Hanoi and west from Canton might have a chance at making headway, but at what cost? It would take a huge commitment that would minimize Jap chances elsewhere on the map. It's easy for either side to "hold the line" in China. Don't succumb to the temptation to try to gain territory (with the exception of Kanhsien and Yenan, which are pretty easy). Go for a stalemate here and concentrate on the rest of the map where the IJN and transports give you mobility and the chance to apply overwhelming force where you choose.

John 3rd -> RE: Strategic Vision (12/28/2008 4:19:19 PM)
Thanks for the massed comments. Dan I take your insights as gospel since you have kicked my &**&^^ with Chinese troops elsewhere on the map! All those Chinese Hordes attacking in our game, were they freed up by my attacks earlier in the war or were they mobile to start with? This REALLY provides an answer to the China problem early. If they were already mobile then we are screwed from the start. If they were not then we need to be more careful and pick our battles. 2nd ACR I am really beginning to agree with your thinking. I think we shall wait at least two weeks to launch the overland assault from Rahaeng. We can seal off Rangoon by using Tavoy and Victoria Point to fly our bombers and fighters while Port Blair can build-up and fly naval search missions. If we wait the two weeks to attack then it will take at least two more weeks to arrive at Moulmein. We have to be careful because stopping that juncture with the Chinese units is very important. Lashio will still need to be taken to prevent that. Castor has made me remember that as soon as we cut the Burma Road this will throw the Chinese into more supply trouble. The North or South argument has merit too. If we look to move into India to gain a boost to the economy then shouldn't the SAME thought be used in China? If we work that line of reasoning then, perhaps, a Northern Attack is better. Heck--I don't know...

Q-Ball -> RE: Strategic Vision (12/28/2008 4:38:53 PM)
Good ideas guys from those who know China, and Big B, better than I do. Looking at the map, those ideas have merit; Yenen is very isolated, and many nearby troops concentrations are Static, and can't interfere in a push there. The only mobile troops up north are a half-dozen or so Corps around Homan. In the south, on the other hand, there are about 12-16 corps in the Changsha/Kanhsien area, and many of them can easily reach Changsha. It looks to me like the guiding principle has to be to take advantage of the Static units, and don't play into their hands; that means, surround static garrisons, destroy them, and DON'T push static troops back to where they are now MOBILE. I am going to consult with my partner, but I think that means an offensive on Yenen, with a limited attack initially toward Wenchow. Everywhere else we dig in. Once Yenen is isolated and destroyed, we can then move on Sian/Homan, and maybe simulatenously isolate Paotow and take our time there. PS: If we want to isolate and destroy Chinese, we probably need tanks. We will have to take a look at where all our tanks are going, because we will need some in India as well.

Q-Ball -> RE: Strategic Vision (12/28/2008 5:01:51 PM)
PS, Castor Troy just posted a couple interesting thoughts on India on his AAR with Miller. His OOB looks almost exactly like the OOB I sent John; we need every spare Division possible for India, even if that means leaving things behind (isolated). We should be able to muster 8 Divisions for that assault shortly after the fall of Singapore: The 5th, 16th, 18th, IG from Malaya, the 21st,38th from China/Hanoi, and the 4th and 2nd from Luzon. This doesn't include any we might "buy" from China or Manchuria. This leaves the 48th, and spare brigades to reduce Luzon and Java. We may need to increase on Java, but this is preliminary. Another lesson from that: Bring lots and lots of supplies. We will have to remember that.

castor troy -> RE: Strategic Vision (12/28/2008 5:42:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Q-Ball PS, Castor Troy just posted a couple interesting thoughts on India on his AAR with Miller. His OOB looks almost exactly like the OOB I sent John; we need every spare Division possible for India, even if that means leaving things behind (isolated). We should be able to muster 8 Divisions for that assault shortly after the fall of Singapore: The 5th, 16th, 18th, IG from Malaya, the 21st,38th from China/Hanoi, and the 4th and 2nd from Luzon. This doesn't include any we might "buy" from China or Manchuria. This leaves the 48th, and spare brigades to reduce Luzon and Java. We may need to increase on Java, but this is preliminary. Another lesson from that: Bring lots and lots of supplies. We will have to remember that. One more tip: bring M O R E supply!!!!! If you land 5000 assault points then those troops will need 40.000 supplies just to fill up the units with supply. So minimum IMO would be.... 125.000 if you don´t want to run into problems. Problems mean if you have to seize supply from the enemy.

John 3rd -> RE: Strategic Vision (12/28/2008 6:01:12 PM)
I like a Yenen Offensive. We could surround the troops before entering the city and then destroy them. I'm going to look around the map to see what we have available and what good, economic targets there might be. We can clear out Kansien and push Wuchow and say 'good enough.' Dig in and PRAY at our Shinto Shrines! The problem about mopping up is that we need every darned resource center we can grab so the economy can expand and we be competitive later in the war. Brad--Do you think you could take 2 Inf Div and a Brigade or two to take out Java then pull the Inf Div to attack India? We also have to remember that once the Allies know where we are placing maximum effort they will come at us in the Pacific. This is where those little Brigades in China come into play. Each of those 10 Brigades builds out to an Assault Strength of 125-150. They should serve to stand-up to most attacks initially. If I can raise Merry Hell in the Pacific then we shouldn't have too much issue for a year or so. If I can get LUCKY... At least the Pearl Harbor attack showed that that can happen. I REALLY Hope we get BB Pennsylvania! She took SIX Torps...ummmm...I will sacrifice a goat this afternoon... A big attack into India will also mean commitment of carriers. Brad--We will really have to coordinate that between us. Do we want to place all the new CV construction towards India? We could add Shoho/Junyo/Hiyo to that Theatre for some more punch. You've got Ryujo (48), Zuiho (30), Hosho (10), and Taiyo (30) at the moment. The new CVs should be completed along these lines: Shoho (30) Jan 1st, Junyo (51) early-Feb, Hiyo (51) in early-April. If we accelerate CVE Unyo it would be ready about March 1st with CVE Chuyo done in distant June. IF I can score an early victory in sinking an American CV or two then I could easily dispatch a KB Division to help. Does anyone know our opponent's style? Do we have any idea as to their division of labor? I've played Paul for over 3 years and he was HIGHLY conservative. Claims to have seen he could be more aggressive but I'm not sure if he will change. Tally Ho (FOW) is an unknown to me.

John 3rd -> RE: Strategic Vision (12/28/2008 6:03:13 PM)
As to seizing enemy supply, there is NO problem there. I mean the Germans planned on it at the Ardennes in 1944 right? It worked out FINE for them... [:@][8\|][:@] Thanks Castor. PS Dan if you are reading, my email is acting all flucky and cannot get our turn sent. Will keep working on it. Correct that--I cannot log into msn.com mail. Anyone else having issues with theirs?

ny59giants -> RE: Strategic Vision (12/28/2008 6:52:11 PM)
You cannot leave the Philippines alone for too long. They will get over 300 Assault Value worth of troops on Luzon within the first month. Add that to the number of troops they have there and throughout the islands. Let them get some experience and start to fill out their TO&E. You could face some trouble if your opponents are aggressive.

John 3rd -> RE: Strategic Vision (12/28/2008 7:00:19 PM)
THAT is a lovely thought. Thanks a lot buddy... Seriously--good thoughts for us to remember.

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