Today is a historical date ... (Full Version)

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Tullius -> Today is a historical date ... (12/28/2008 10:00:36 PM)

Detroit Lions 0 - 16

(others deleted by me)



garysorrell -> RE: Today is a historical date ... (12/29/2008 1:27:45 AM)

Yea, Detroit is a mess...the city and the team. Many in my wifes family lived and worked there, but 'escaped' to Florida years ago.
Guess the old Tampa Bay Buccaneers are off the hook now[;)]



mbsports -> What a load of garbage - You know nothing about Detroit so please consider your comments. (12/29/2008 2:06:05 AM)

Honestly they're an embarrassment to the game of football and on that note Tullius has it totally right...

Awful!





Tullius -> RE: What a load of garbage - You know nothing about Detroit so please consider your comments. (12/29/2008 7:40:22 AM)

.



Mykal -> RE: What a load of garbage - You know nothing about Detroit so please consider your comments. (12/29/2008 11:30:22 AM)

EDIT: Message Deleted

Big up Respect to you MB



mbsports -> RE: What a load of garbage - You know nothing about Detroit so please consider your comments. (12/29/2008 12:59:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mykal

Hey MB, now you know I have loadsa time for you man, we get on well enough
but..............
that remark is uncalled for
Tillius and the German Peoples are hardly to blame for the ill's of Hitler......... no need man

I understand your upset and defence of your home town......... good for you man........have pride
but no need for any kinda racial comment

EDIT: with any luck, Marauders will pop by and delete this whole thread
because I for one find that comment totally lacking in class


I removed the quote that Mykal is referencing as I'm willing to admit it was probably a touch off side. I did not touch on any racial identity as the statement tied to nationality not racial id. The people of Detroit are hardly the cause of the financial meltdown or the fact that their football team is the worst ever.

That being said...

I still find Tullius's original post a little offensive (I had said completely but it really isn't that...) to me as a native of Detroit. That's not really about defense of my home city, it's more about the fact that the comment was totally lacking any substance or knowledge of the city and while I am very open to critiquing Detroit, I'd rather those critiques be with regard to the issues that actually exist instead of making light and id'ing the city as a-hem Morbid. It's a great place but you have to know it to appreciate it and when you know it you become a little more sensitive to some of the statements people make about it.



garysorrell -> RE: What a load of garbage - You know nothing about Detroit so please consider your comments. (12/29/2008 2:03:17 PM)

Never mind [8D]



garysorrell -> RE: What a load of garbage - You know nothing about Detroit so please consider your comments. (12/29/2008 2:10:15 PM)

Im staying out of this one(comments edited)



mbsports -> But if you want to talk about the team (12/29/2008 5:57:05 PM)

Now if you want to talk about the team though in Detroit we totally agree.  This team has been poorly run, poorly coached, and poorly executed at every level for about 50 years now and most of that falls on William Clay Ford's watch.  Looking back you can see a number of examples where guys just under perform year after year with no recourse.  At some point you would think the idea of putting a proven football mind in at the GM spot would occur but it has never even been considered.  When the Giants were a really poor team in the early 80s they actually talked to the league about how they should turn it around and the league worked with them to line up candidates who were qualified and respected.  The Lions have gotten so bad that no one in Detroit is shocked or surprised.  Hellfire I actually had money on the under from Vegas where they had the over/under on wins set to 5. 

This is a pathetic franchise that hasn't got 2 cents worth of sense right now.  Year after year we trot out players who are terribly out of position such as Jeff Backus at LT or Paris Lenon at MLB.  We supplement that with idiotic decisions such as carrying 11 defensive linemen on a 53 man roster.  We sign cast offs from the head coaches previous gig where they were never good enough to crack the lineup there and place a level of expectation that they can become starters in the league.  We ignore obvious glaring needs and poor fit players and ride the few talented players we get so hard that they can never perform up to their talent level. 

In essence if you want to find a perfect mess of a football team Detroit can certainly provide the blueprint for that and honestly I don't see them changing that anytime soon.  This is a team with 1 playoff win in the last 50 years.  Certainly the Lions have to be seen as the worst franchise in professional football at any level and that is as apparent to a guy in Leipzig as it is in Detroit.

I'll say I'm probably a little too sensitive to the critique of the city itself because after 30 years here I actually do love the area as it is actually extremely nice overall.  It has problems such as the city itself having a functionally bankrupt school system, a tax structure that is way out of kilter, and a philosophy in general that needs to change.  It's a tough city and a tough area with very loyal and devoted people.  We tend to take a lot of grief from others but when others need help, Detroit and Michigan are always there, and always will be.

In essence our football team laying the biggest egg in professional sports doesn't define the city.



Marauders -> RE: But if you want to talk about the team (12/29/2008 6:42:13 PM)

I believe the information that Tullius was making reference to was that the city of Detroit has lost half of its population since 1950.  The metro area has grown since then but not as fast as similar metro areas across the Unites States.

The Detroit Lions have had some playoff exposure, but they have also never really had great teams like the Vikings, Bears, and Packers have.

0-16 is really bad, but I don't believe the Lions are as bad as their record suggests.  A few good players and some good coaching could bring them back relatively quickly.



garysorrell -> RE: But if you want to talk about the team (12/29/2008 8:32:34 PM)

I dont think the Lions are as bad as year 1 Buccaneers. They were just horrible.

It makes sense what frustration Barry Sanders felt. I dont know any inside stuff, so I assume Barry finally just got fed up with being the 1 guy, maybe other than Chris Spielman/Herman Moore.

Really, you see a lot of this type thing in the NFL. You could argue that the same sort of halfa$$ job is being done in places like Kansas City, San Diego...and a few other cities. And lets look at the Raiders, yikes.

Anyway, forget the Lions, they will eventually get it together. It's Kwame Kilpatrick as mayor that the city needs to eradicate from everyone elses memory. Absolute, corrupt, garbage.



mbsports -> RE: But if you want to talk about the team (12/29/2008 10:17:51 PM)

Oh King Kwame was a trip - you just knew he was going to do something idiotic eventually dumb enough to get removed from office.

But the Lions - no way, I refuse to admit that any team is as bad as Detroit - they have been bad for so long that the Raiders have been to multiple super bowls and have won one since Detroit did anything of note. 

And today they just put icing on the cake with the announcement THEY'RE KEEPING MARTIN MAYHEW AS GM?!?!?

I mean seriously whisky tango foxtrot and to quote Wayne Fontes... "What does a guy gotta do to get fired around here?"

Annnnnnnnnd the contract we gave Culpepper paid out an extra million bucks because he played in 5% of the snaps

Can we just have an expansion team?



Marauders -> RE: But if you want to talk about the team (12/31/2008 4:56:46 PM)

quote:

And today they just put icing on the cake with the announcement THEY'RE KEEPING MARTIN MAYHEW AS GM?!?!?


Has Martin Mayhew been given a chance to do much of anything? The Matt Millen debacle left a lot of holes, and the Roy Williams trade with Dallas looks like it will be a good one for the Lions.

quote:

Can we just have an expansion team?


The Lions will get the 1st and 20th picks in the 2009 draft as well as a bonus 3rd round pick. They also have Calvin Johnson to build with. No expansion team would start so well.

With a good draft, a good coaching staff, and a few key free agents, the Lions could get really good relatively quickly.

The Vikings won the division with mediocre coaching and many holes on the offensive line and defensive secondary.



mbsports -> RE: But if you want to talk about the team (12/31/2008 7:41:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders

quote:

And today they just put icing on the cake with the announcement THEY'RE KEEPING MARTIN MAYHEW AS GM?!?!?


Has Martin Mayhew been given a chance to do much of anything? The Matt Millen debacle left a lot of holes, and the Roy Williams trade with Dallas looks like it will be a good one for the Lions.

quote:

Can we just have an expansion team?


The Lions will get the 1st and 20th picks in the 2009 draft as well as a bonus 3rd round pick. They also have Calvin Johnson to build with. No expansion team would start so well.

With a good draft, a good coaching staff, and a few key free agents, the Lions could get really good relatively quickly.

The Vikings won the division with mediocre coaching and many holes on the offensive line and defensive secondary.



Given that Martin Mayhew was there with Millen he's tainted even with a very good trade for Roy Williams. Getting that for Williams was huge and I don't discount it. The problem is that without even considering a Scott Pioli or talking to anyone else really the Lions for the 50th year have played the route of business as usual. Given that the team is over 120 games under .500 in 50 years with 1 playoff win total business as usual is a little scary. Hope it works out but I can just see the same ole' Lions cornbread being served up.




Marauders -> RE: But if you want to talk about the team (1/1/2009 9:58:38 AM)

Well, ... as a Vikings fan, I hope that the Lions don't get too good, but I don't believe the Lions team is as bad as its record.

A little defensive help would go a long way with them, and there will certainly be a good young quarterback available in the draft, but that can sometimes be a crap shoot in itself.  Will the Lions draft the next Payton Manning or the next Ryan Leaf?




mbsports -> RE: But if you want to talk about the team (1/1/2009 3:31:41 PM)

Yeah I'll agree they just aren't as bad as that record b/c it really is darn near impossible to be 0-16 and have the talent commensurate with 0-16.

Taking a QB is a bit of a crap shoot and I personally would rather see Smith or Oher #1 and then Mealuga or Laurinaitis with the 20th pick.  Either that or go defensive linemen up front and then pick up the MLB that has been needed for 4 years.




Great White -> RE: Today is a historical date ... (1/3/2009 6:08:32 PM)

People make the huge deal about this, I do not think it is completely fare. If The ?1976? Tampa Bay Buccaneers had more games they would have probably been 0-16. I also heard, only once, that The ?1983? New Orleans Saints had a I think 0-15 and then 1-15. And of course, there are many franchise like The '2007 Miami Dolphins that went 1-15. Do not get me wrong it is bad though.



Great White -> RE: What a load of garbage - You know nothing about Detroit so please consider your comments. (1/3/2009 6:14:27 PM)

Why, does this reflect on The NFL?

Besides The NFL changing there determining their scheduling from based on last season's performance and other divisional franchises to play one-whole division and other non-divisional franchises per year



mbsports -> RE: What a load of garbage - You know nothing about Detroit so please consider your comments. (1/4/2009 8:58:44 PM)

The Lions are just a sick franchise that have needed a heart transplant for about 40 years now.  They reflect poorly on the game of football not necessarily the NFL.  They'll get something turned around eventually, because you really can't be horrid forever... they're trying to though!




Great White -> RE: What a load of garbage - You know nothing about Detroit so please consider your comments. (1/6/2009 6:50:06 PM)

Being realistic, there has to be some bad performing participants, in everything, for there to be a scale for us to recognize the good performing participants, right? And if one believes that to be true, then there will always be some of those bad performing participants that are the worse, just as there will always be some of those good performing participants that are the best.

Just as there are the

1. A. Buccaneers (because they are before The '2009 Lions)
1. B. Lions
2. A. New Orleans Saints
2. B. Other franchises that are 1-15, after starting 0-15
3. A. Other franchises that are 1-15, after starting 0-14 (because they are before '08)
3. B. Other franchises that are 1-15, after starting 0-14
3. C. Dolphins

there are
1. 1972 Dolphins and etc.

That makes sense to me, maybe I am wrong there.

It really is a miracle that there has not been more (0-16 franchises); since The NFL changed the way they do schedules. I expect there to be more. When one thinks about how there is just one-franchise before The NFL changed the way they do schedules (many decades, which include free agency and all) and yet in what a decade or so, after The NFL changed the way they do schedules, there is the same amount of 0-16 franchises. So, I expect there to be more 0-16 franchises.
Since, no lower level teams/programs/other professional and semi-professional leagues' and associations' franchises could beat The Lions more than one lucky and extremely close game, in a series of multiple games, then The Lions can only embarrass The NFL. Given The NFL change in the way they schedule, The Lions, in my opinion, did not embarrass The NFL, just following what is expected to happen (above) and in fact The NFL is also responsible.

The real problem is that almost all (sure there are more than I know of) the stats used, in FootBall world, determine such opinions of so called experts, facts and records. The Buccaneers (because they are before The '2009 Lions), The Lions,
The Saints (heard on a TV NFL pregame show) and any other NFL franchise that ended without a win should be recorded in the record books and mention together to fair and factual. In my opinion, if one wants to record records it should only allowed to be done by averages of games/seasons/and etc played/coached/GMed/Owned/and etc.



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