Question for the Devs or anyone else that knows

Question for the Devs or anyone else that knows (Full Version)

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Headshot -> Question for the Devs or anyone else that knows (1/6/2009 8:37:28 PM)
What actually determines the following... (1) How do you set the "actual" weapon base damage? ( the weapons.xml lists base_damage_old and does not show a direct correlation to the ACTUAL weapon base damage.) (2) How is the is the weapon damage actually calculated within the game engine? ( what is the amount of damage taken by a given body part in relation to armor for any given type of round and weapon used ) (3) How the heck does the game engine calculate it's probability to HIT a given character based upon stats / range / stance / weapon add-on / etc? (4) How is range calculated by the game engine and can it be displayed? (5) How in the world is Line Of Sight determined and can it be FIXED? (6) Where are the e-mail texts held? ( so I can rewrite them into proper english that actually makes sense. ) Headshot

Reinforce -> RE: Question for the Devs or anyone else that knows (1/6/2009 8:57:59 PM)
I'm fairly sure I've gone over all this in other fourms but here goes again. (1) Number to the left of Base damage Old. Would be called Base_damage. (2) The number you see is mostly the number you get. Less armor, Hit Location and chance to crit. (3) Hit chance is your Avatars Marksmanship, The Global mod for ACC in the Constants file, Weapon Dispersion/recoil depending on the mode and weapon addons add between 1.25 I belive and 2.25 to your avatars ability to hit. As I've figured it thats basicly meaning if your ACC score is 100 with a sniper scope which is the 2.25 your now 225 ACC score. Range, Dispersion and once again the Global mod for ACC changes this value up/down then there's the random roll. I would assume anyways Never seen the code for the rolls... yet. (4) Range is in meters based on what is said in anumber of files. I personaly assume when you walk or move each set of those little feet you see on the ground is 1 meter. Beyond that not sure how the game engine figures it. (5) LOS is alittle bugged atm. And has been a solid complaint from players. (6) C:\Matrix Games\Hired Guns\basis\locale\usa\scripts\emails Your install place might be differant. Much love, Reinforce

Headshot -> RE: Question for the Devs or anyone else that knows (1/6/2009 10:23:36 PM)
Thankyou for some of the info however I think you missed the point of the questions... (1) thank you. My spread sheet was only showing the letter e for the colum header and I failed to notice the calculation it contained as being 2/3 of the old damage value. (2) This is part of the info we seem to be lacking ... How Much of the Base damage is Absorbed by the various types of armor, How does the Recoil and dispersion Actually effect the damage and chance to hit ( when I translate the russian into english for the ACC mod it states that below 1 is better accuracy and greater than 1 is less accurate but as in my tests it does not seem to act as stated nor in a consistant manner. ) This is why I asked... How is it Actually calculated ... I want to see the actual value and variables and in what order they are determined along with any randoms that the programers tossed in as in a true formula they use in the game engine to calculate a Chance to Hit and Damage taken. What are the Crit chances and how are they derived etc. (3) See #2 as it all applies in the same way. (4) I know range is based in meters, but how can we the players see or calculate the range to determine the weapons best chance to hit etc. There must be a tag or variable used within the chance to hit calculation that will give the actual range to target. What is that variable and can it be called and displayed so the player can see the actual range. (5) I and everyone else that has played this game knows it is bugged but again what is the formula and variables used to calculate the LOS because maybe , just maybe it can be fixed by tweeking the values or maybe someone just made an error in its design. (6) Thank you I totally missed that. I am not trying to be an ass, I would just like to know what we are really dealing with. I have worked with the JA2 1.13 data and source codes and at least you know (mostly) what you are dealing with and how and what to change to affect a calculation.

Reinforce -> RE: Question for the Devs or anyone else that knows (1/6/2009 10:51:00 PM)
Ya I've been messing with what everything does for about a month now. I've done some crazy things let me tell you. Still finding new things too, Communitys been super helpful and supportive. Also asking questions is never being an ass, You don't know you ask simple it that. Don't fret about it I'm more then happy to pass on anything I know. Even if I sound annoyed I'm happy more people wanna look at the nuts and bolts. Was worried I was the only one. :P The Constants file thing does matter a fair bit. I set it to 5 once and the Hostiles missed me 95% of the time even in melee. I belive there is a min max for % to hit. However I am at a loss as to how it's truely done, It's one of the things alot of people have been asking to have patched so we could see eather the range or the Hit %. I sent this game off to my brother but he's busy with work and a baby and I'm not sure I'm aloud to talk about what I asked him to do to the exe. :P ACC is something I've been trying to get my head fully around. I get 75-80% of how it works but I'm at a loss as to how Dispersion effects the shot unless that's what determens your hit location... which would kinda make sense thinking about it now. Sadly that's about all I know about ACC and how it works I know where to find it which way to change it for better or worse but nothing else... alittle annoying. Oh and I forgot to add in befor that there's 1 other thing that effects ACC and thats optics magnify You mostly see this above 1 on sniper rifles but there's afew weapons with built in scopes like the G36 and the XM8 that have it. From my understanding of this it basicly cuts down on the range factor in long range shooting. Much love, Reinforce

Mraah -> RE: Question for the Devs or anyone else that knows (1/7/2009 3:35:54 AM)
Headshot, There's another formula in the weapons xml next to the recoil value ... =RC[-1]/2 ... I don't know if it's for the recoil or for the dispersion chance. As far as a percentage chance to hit ... I don't believe there is a one time formula for that (I haven't seen one yet either). It's more of a combine group of values that make the bullet exit the gun and proceed to a random destination within the confines of the dispersion cone. Theorically, you could determine a percentage chance but (IMO), it's nothing that could be displayed but more of just sitting down and firing off 100 rounds at the wall and determine how many of the rounds fell within a certain radius. As in real life, when you aim and fire a weapon you have only 2 odds at hitting the target .... 100% or 0% ... Of course, you can say that at such-and-such a distance you can get all the rounds within a 6" target, but that's what the dispersion value does. In other words, to hit a man-size torso with a diameter of 18" you would have to figure out the radians at different ranges and select the right radian value to hit within 18" inches of your aim point. As you can see, a man's head maybe 9" across which means that perhaps 50% of the time you will miss the head but hit the torso. Ok, now about damage and ctrical hits ... Look at the following XML's ; body_parts, bones, bonesbox. The body_parts tell you what bones are included for that particular body name ... ie head = bip01 head and neck. The boneboxes give you values that might be related to how big the hit box is ... or perhaps how far from the "bone" or joint the box extends. As far as damage or critical hits go .... Perhaps the damage is based on how far from the bone you landed the shot, ie if you clip the models ear you get 2 pts damage being the furthest away from the bone/joint. A square hit in the bone's location will do max damage and cause a critical hit. Anyway, it appears they're using 3D models to represent damage so there isn't a formula like in JA or JA2 .... those games use flat rate table damage with odds .... HG seems to use actual model location damage to determine a value ... ie hit boxes and bones/joint locations. Hope that helps, Rob [image]local://upfiles/28390/883912D298A145D0956766250B2A4467.jpg[/image]

Reinforce -> RE: Question for the Devs or anyone else that knows (1/7/2009 3:48:26 AM)
Sexy program you got there Mraah. So if your right then that would mean I was right in saying headshots and what not do differant damages As for that RC[-1]/2 thing. The recoil of a weapon is only set for Recoil H the Recoil L is half of H's value so that I think is what the =RC[-1]/2 means. Given when I change weapons recoil h Excel does the Recoil L for me and it's always set to half of the Recoil H value. I think though there is a chance to hit however. Then the dispersion is used to find where you hit. Weapons with a bad dispersion seem to never hit where you want but you still hit... they also miss more in general.. Getting tired of the guess work. I so wanna rip that exe apart. I'm betting there's 2 rolls to hit. One to see if you hit the man size target then one to see which way the bullet goes. Anyways my two cents I'm starting to sound like an old nag. x_x Much love, Reinforce

Mraah -> RE: Question for the Devs or anyone else that knows (1/7/2009 4:10:31 AM)
Reinforce, I like the sexier programs ...[;)] ... I'm using XML Notepad 2007 ... I know you like to Google so I'll leave it at that ... it's free from MS. OK ... back to business ... The =RC[-1]/2 explanation helps. The real formulas are hopefully in a lua or somewhere else ... we'll die if it's in the exe but then again, who needs the formula when we observse it's results and plug in our own values. Now ... Perhaps the merc's accuracy starts the number crunching ... For instance, the merc with 100 ACC will begin the shot hitting at the aimpoint ... then the dispersion works from there. A merc with an ACC of 70 will begin with a 70% chance of hitting the aimpoint ... and then it moves the aimpoint if he doesn't roll good ... then the dispersion kicks in. So, with that said and done ... Perhaps we need to look at the ACC stuff somewhere in a LUA ?? I dunno ... just shooting in the dark, so to speak. Rob

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