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skrewball -> OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/8/2009 4:58:42 PM)

Since this is a forum full of Active, Reserve, Prior and supporters of our Armed Forces...I thought you guys would like to be informed about this amazing looking movie on HBO.

http://www.hbo.com/events/takingchance/

Semper Fi.

P.S. If you don't choke back a tear from watching that your a communist! [;)]



dhuffjr2 -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/8/2009 5:10:16 PM)

I read I think the original article in the Marine Corps Gazette shortly after my father (retired Marine) passed. Military funerals always kill me, taking my back to my father and grandfathers funeral.

Don't have HBO but I'll have to purchase this on dvd when it comes out as a reward to those that made this. Hollywood puts out so much crap these days.



Japan -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/8/2009 5:30:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: skrewball
P.S. If you don't choke back a tear from watching that your a communist! [;)]






lol



Arctic Blast -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/8/2009 9:23:47 PM)

Actually, I'm curious now...does anybody know if this is SOP to have a soldier's remains escorted home in the Marines?



skrewball -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/8/2009 10:00:34 PM)

All remains are escorted home by someone. Whether it is friend, family or military. The story stands out because he was a Lt Col...generally only Enlisted or Jr Officers will escort someone's remains home.



Titanwarrior89 -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/8/2009 11:16:08 PM)

Does put a lump in your throat.[:(]



06 Maestro -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 12:11:18 AM)

Thanks for the movie tip. I'll be watching for it.



Japan -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 6:13:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

Does put a lump in your throat.[:(]



Well I think that depend on who you are and what you know.. Personaly i get very anoyed that someone can waste resources on transporting a dead arm or leg thousands of miles, when large parts of your own population is living in servere poverty. (Some of the largest poverty in % pr capita in the Western World)

I think about the financial resources that would benefit some of your own millions of poor, or benefit your school system, health system ect ect.. That would probably be a better way to spend your limited resources.

More interesting is, that the majority of peapole i saw in the video clip seems to be honoring the dead remains, but based on statistics they do not support the cause he died for, who he by now probably don't support himself.

Seeing this I wounder if this is realety, or only fiction.








Raverdave -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 6:48:33 AM)

Japan, take those comments to the doggies web site.  No room here for this kind of discussion.



noxious -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 6:52:02 AM)

What's your point ? (apart from shock value ?)
Life like war is full of contradictions : you can oppose the politics of a conflict while saluting and respecting the sacrifice of those men and women serving their country's flag.
Some even go as far as the unintelligible to me "Support the troops, bring our boys home", since I find it an utter disregard for the fact of military life : these people are doing their jobs, whoever the politicians are, whatever the missions are : peacekeeping, piracy control, drug trafficking interdiction, low intensity conflict, humanitarian efforts, guerilla warfare, training  military, law enforcement and judiciary systems in developing countries, long term campaigns, or combinations thereof.
I think they'd appreciate we not say "Support our troops, bring our boys home" in the same sentence : if you support them, you'll let them do their jobs (this is very prevalent among some of my fellow Canadians and getting on my nerves, hehe)
Or that their deaths are meaningless : maybe you don't  believe in the symbolism and that's your prerogative and fundamental right, as well as your right to express it, but for better or for worse, the West is a Judeo Christian society, and these values matter to most of us, even some like me who do not belong to any of the implied faiths, please respect people's grief.
As you can learn from that story, the symbolism is not only important to the lost soldier's families, but obviously to a lot of people along the road home...
I'll guess you'll call the people who stand in the cold to greet Canadian soldiers on the way home in their coffins stupid for freezing their arses off ?
You just don't get it, do you ?
Or you're just being an arse.
Bad doggie




Japan -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 7:03:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

Japan, take those comments to the doggies web site. No room here for this kind of discussion.


I dont hope you are serius sir, in a Demacrocy different opinions is accepted.
My opinion is that you need to look at the financial cost, and the cost of briging a dead foot or dead arm thousends of miles is waste of financial resourses when the country in general is going streight down-hill.



pasternakski -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 7:20:19 AM)

Oh, goody. Another one of these.


[image]local://upfiles/6977/48186E848E6846B0B2375DBAF86D2592.jpg[/image]



JudgeDredd -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 7:34:22 AM)

^^^^^
LMFAO



John 3rd -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 7:52:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Japan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

Does put a lump in your throat.[:(]



Well I think that depend on who you are and what you know.. Personaly i get very anoyed that someone can waste resources on transporting a dead arm or leg thousands of miles, when large parts of your own population is living in servere poverty. (Some of the largest poverty in % pr capita in the Western World)

I think about the financial resources that would benefit some of your own millions of poor, or benefit your school system, health system ect ect.. That would probably be a better way to spend your limited resources.

More interesting is, that the majority of peapole i saw in the video clip seems to be honoring the dead remains, but based on statistics they do not support the cause he died for, who he by now probably don't support himself.

Seeing the Airport ground crews more or less suluting the dead arm or dead leg that are being transported back to the USA makes me wonder if this is the absurd way of American realety, or if this is only fiction.








ENOUGH already. This is twice in as many weeks. Do you learn nothing about other comments on the Forum?

I will be honored to watch this film.



pasternakski -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 7:58:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Japan
I dont hope you are serius sir, in a Demacrocy different opinions is accepted.

Yah, hoap so, to. Yer openeun is difrnt, kinda like my dawg's dick hangs off to one side.



Japan -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 8:51:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

ENOUGH already. This is twice in as many weeks. Do you learn nothing about other comments on the Forum?
I will be honored to watch this film.


Not sure i understand what you mean sir, I only replayed to his post above.

Shall I abstain from posting because i don't share "the Allied fanboy" opinion?


[&:]



JudgeDredd -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 9:41:51 AM)

Japan

I think the point is this forum is well documented as a non-political forum. In other words, discussions of a political nature do not belong here and are not allowed here.

Whilst the original post may be construed as political by some by the content, it wasn't a political discussion. You seem to have, inadvertantly or otherwise, injected some political points into it.

That is why people are asking you to desist and take it to another forum where political chat is encouraged (Doggies or The Wargamer should suffice).



skrewball -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 1:27:20 PM)

Wow, I just wanted to point out a touching and honorable film.

The fact is, no matter what your politics. This is a man who gave his life for something greater than himself. Those in his unit. If you read Chance Phelps bio on his death you will learn that even though he was wounded, he manned his machine gun providing covering fire for the remainder of his convoy before his was killed. Without him, many more could have died.

When a fireman or policeman is killed...do we talk about the politics of the city or state? No, we honor those who realized that we can't all selfishly look out for ourselves.

And as for the costs involved...do you really want us to save the world with the cost of shipping a body home? Don't you feel that the parents of our slain hero deserve to have their child home?



habakuk -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 1:51:43 PM)

I respect everybod's feelings about this, and I am sure that some of you have a very different background than me, maybe you have been in the army, maybe you even experienced war yourself.

I believe there is no glory in death, whatever the circumstances may be.
I believe there is nothing heroic about war, whatever the circumstances are.
I believe that military is necessary, as long as mankind does't change significantly.
I believe that the point of view like it is presented in that preview of that movie can help those people who serve in the military, or who have loved ones that do, to handle their situation.




Japan -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 1:58:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: skrewball
And as for the costs involved...do you really want us to save the world with the cost of shipping a body home?


I don't want you to save the world, I think only you want that.
If you have to save someone, then I think you should start by saving your own.
Instead of waging war, use the resources on improving your own country, educate your citizens, provide health care and a good living standard for everyone.

Sorry if I don't share your enthusiasm sir.





wdboyd -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 2:06:54 PM)

Listen you blithering fool... you would not have your damn country, democratic or not, if dedicated warriors were not out ther sacrificing their arm, legs, health and lives to defend it.

Individual feelings about this are irrevelant.

How could the U.S. poor get their welfare and food stamps is the country fell to its enemies? Money... bah. We have and still pour enormous amounts of money down too many socialist ratholes as it is. Our Great Society programs spent Billions to eliminate poverty. Result? Money gone, poverty remained. People that think like you turn my stomach.

The best any country can do is provide the economic potential for success (wealth) to those that apply themselves. Sadly, a ever growing problem is that more and more people want the government (tax payers) to support their, non tax paying, sorry butts and feel they are entitled to it. And the number of non tax payers, is continually increasing. These same, non performers, can vote, and they elect and re-elect socialist who think like you to keep getting their handouts from the government.

Not to mention the millions of illegal aliens that pay no taxes and financially burden our countries institutions (hospitals, schools etc.)

Does anybody else see a problem here?

Remember, "The poor you will have among you always."

Also, I'd wager you would be one of the first to flee his country if asked to defend it in the military.

wdboyd (Retired U.S.M.C.)



skrewball -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 2:11:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Japan

Instead of waging war, use the resources on improving your own country, educate your citizens, provide health care and a good living standard for everyone.



And again...this is a policy statement...this has to do with what a government does with the funds it maintains. This is not the purpose of the movie or the intent I had when I posted the link. I do not disagree with you that I wish the funds spent on the wars of our world could have been used towards better options. However, wishing never really gets us anywhere.

I am talking about a single individual...I am talking about closure for a grieving family.

I understand that you and I have different viewpoints and I am not going to debate those here. If you want to talk the politics of "wasteful government" please open another thread, I wanted those people in this forum who have a connection to the military (both the US and abroad) to know about this movie.



sabre1 -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 2:44:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdboyd

Listen you blithering fool... you would not have your damn country, democratic or not, if dedicated warriors were not out ther sacrificing their arm, legs, health and lives to defend it.

Individual feelings about this are irrevelant.

How could the U.S. poor get their welfare and food stamps is the country fell to its enemies? Money... bah. We have and still pour enormous amounts of money down too many socialist ratholes as it is. Our Great Society programs spent Billions to eliminate poverty. Result? Money gone, poverty remained. People that think like you turn my stomach.

The best any country can do is provide the economic potential for success (wealth) to those that apply themselves. Sadly, a ever growing problem is that more and more people want the government (tax payers) to support their, non tax paying, sorry butts and feel they are entitled to it. And the number of non tax payers, is continually increasing. These same, non performers, can vote, and they elect and re-elect socialist who think like you to keep getting their handouts from the government.

Not to mention the millions of illegal aliens that pay no taxes and financially burden our countries institutions (hospitals, schools etc.)

Does anybody else see a problem here?

Remember, "The poor you will have among you always."

Also, I'd wager you would be one of the first to flee his country if asked to defend it in the military.

wdboyd (Retired U.S.M.C.)


Before this gets locked down:

Amen Wdboyd



Japan -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 3:34:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdboyd

Listen you blithering fool... you would not have your damn country, democratic or not, if dedicated warriors were not out ther sacrificing their arm, legs, health and lives to defend it.

Individual feelings about this are irrevelant.

How could the U.S. poor get their welfare and food stamps is the country fell to its enemies? Money... bah. We have and still pour enormous amounts of money down too many socialist ratholes as it is. Our Great Society programs spent Billions to eliminate poverty. Result? Money gone, poverty remained. People that think like you turn my stomach.

The best any country can do is provide the economic potential for success (wealth) to those that apply themselves. Sadly, a ever growing problem is that more and more people want the government (tax payers) to support their, non tax paying, sorry butts and feel they are entitled to it. And the number of non tax payers, is continually increasing. These same, non performers, can vote, and they elect and re-elect socialist who think like you to keep getting their handouts from the government.

Not to mention the millions of illegal aliens that pay no taxes and financially burden our countries institutions (hospitals, schools etc.)

Does anybody else see a problem here?

Remember, "The poor you will have among you always."

Also, I'd wager you would be one of the first to flee his country if asked to defend it in the military.

wdboyd (Retired U.S.M.C.)



PS: Well, there was alot of Political statements in your text, only reason to why i mantion it is because it was mantioned above that it was not allowed.


As replay, i say this:


1) I have nothing against the military, nor that one uses it as an armed force to defend its own or anothers nation.
I do however have alot against using it as a offensive weapon against suverigan nations, something I any time would voulentere to defend.
With other words, I would use my own head and decide if my country is attacked or if it is my country who is the one declaring war.
(If the common German or Jap male would had those values then there would been no WW2. - The danger starts when you stop thinking yourself).

2) I live in Scandinavia, pr definition they are all sosialist counters.
They work actually very very very good, so there is nothing wrang with that as pr principal governmental system.
I don't understand why you call nations with that govement form for "socialist ratholes".
They are actually the most happy in the world..

3) I don't understand what you mean with USA falling to the enemy, I assume it would defend itself as any other nation.
There is a huge difference between waging war on independent countrys and defending itself.
If any country is attacked It is my opinion that they have the right of defend themselves.
Any attacker however, I think should be disabled.

If you travel the world sir, (I recommend to Afrika) you will see the effects of Offencive war.



old man of the sea -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 3:52:55 PM)

looks like the language barrier is to thick to have a real discussion here

you all should call it quits

Japan,

I'm not sure what to say to you, but if you are going to continue get a translator.

E



06 Maestro -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 5:00:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Japan

I do however have alot against using it as a offensive weapon against suverigan nations, something I any time would voulentere to defend.
With other words, I would use my own head and decide if my country is attacked or if it is my country who is the one declaring war.
(If the common German or Jap male would had those values then there would been no WW2. - The danger starts when you stop thinking yourself).



[:D] You can't be serious.

Henceforth, I will set my coffee down before reading one of your posts.

You may live in an utopia, but I assure you; it is a very, very small speck on this earth. You will be absorbed.[:D]-oh, and you will like it.



mlees -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 5:33:28 PM)

quote:

1) I have nothing against the military, nor that one uses it as an armed force to defend its own or anothers nation.
I do however have alot against using it as a offensive weapon against suverigan nations, something I any time would voulentere to defend.
With other words, I would use my own head and decide if my country is attacked or if it is my country who is the one declaring war.
(If the common German or Jap male would had those values then there would been no WW2. - The danger starts when you stop thinking yourself).


Unfortunately, once you join the military, you're in. You are expected to carry out the orders of those who are placed into the proper positions of authority over you.

There is not a regular military organisation in the world were the soldiers get to vote on which wars or battles they fight in.

(Irregular forces are, of course, different.)

I assume the movies message was about grief (the loss of a loved one), and how some folks deal with it, and not about current political events. As such, such a story could be set in any 19th/20th century war.



old man of the sea -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 6:07:30 PM)

I assume the movie is all about respect......

Anyone know anything about that?

E



Grell -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 6:42:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdboyd



Also, I'd wager you would be one of the first to flee his country if asked to defend it in the military.

wdboyd (Retired U.S.M.C.)


Let him have it man![:)]

Regards,

Grell



Japan -> RE: OT: HBO's Taking Chance (1/9/2009 6:43:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees

Unfortunately, once you join the military, you're in. You are expected to carry out the orders of those who are placed into the proper positions of authority over you.



When I did my military servise (here it is universal military servise, I also spent time abroad) I remember one very important thing I learned (sorry if the translation is bad) :

"Do not follow any order or decission that I personaly can not guarantee is within the limits of International law,
the Geneva Convention or regulations defined in the Human Rights Regulation, any of those threatys are above my personal valus, they stand above my commanding officers orders, and they stand above any political decissions from my own goverment, I will personaly be responsible if I or any under my command fail to obay them".

Now with that in maind, it is also pointed out specificly (evan at seval locations) that conducting offencive war aiganst another suverigen nation without a resulution from the UN is a crime, for this reason if an order like that would be given,
I would personaly arrest the officer who gave it.

So, it is (at least not here) no longer possible to blaim your commanding officers.. or to say you only followed order,
here every individual solider is expected to think himself, and to act only within the regulations of International law.
His personal opinion does not count, and he do not need to obay any order conflicting with International law.
This is not only the SOP given to soldiers, but also constituted into the Actual Law of the Country.

I understand based on what you say that it is different in your country, but here anyways you can not get away with
"only following orders", you are here not expected to only follow orders, but to evaluate them first with the Law perspective in maind, then to execute them, you are also expected to on the battlefield take own initiatives and to act without orders if you value it to be in favur of your side, aigan only you will be responsible both in failure and sucsess.
Individual responsibilety is valued, officers will guide the troops throu an opperation, but any of the troops are expected and educated to be able to do it also if neccesary.


(PS: The idea about educating privates to that degree of responsibilety is because as this is a nation with a drafted army
a full wartime mobilisation would make it over 500 000 soldiers, but the nation has only 4000 high and low ranking officers,
so every soldier in the current standing army (13 000 men) would take upon the role of an officer in a
full war mobilisation situation, this means that the current standing army has privates (not conscripts)
with a large degree of education, you can call it an standing army of semi-educated officers).




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