LCI/LCT question (Full Version)

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cato13 -> LCI/LCT question (1/13/2009 2:06:17 PM)

ive just received a batch of these landing craft. is it worth putin then in with invasion/troops tansport fleets?

they're obviously much smaller than AK's/AP's but i assume they unload a lot faster.

what are the pros n cons of usin them?



wwengr -> RE: LCI/LCT question (1/13/2009 2:24:38 PM)

They unload in one phase. That is really important, especially when invading an Atoll where you must shock attack until you either win or die.



Feinder -> RE: LCI/LCT question (1/13/2009 2:29:30 PM)

Yes, those little LCT, LCVP, LCM, LCI etc are quite usefull.

I've been using them for atoll invasions in the Marshalls and Gilberts.

You need a lot of them to do anything.  So I litterally congregate all of them in SoPac (numbering in the hundreds).  6 here, and 12 there, you can't lift anything useful.  But with 200x of them, you can push a whole Marine division.  Also, the Army RCTs are well used in this regard.  It takes 12x LSTs to carry one wiht minimimal supplies (no attack), or 15x LSTs to invade with one.

A loading suggestion:

Make TFs with each "type" of LC.  So put all your LCTs together.  Put all your LCVPs together, etc.

Load in order:
LCVP
LCI
LCM
LCT
LST
LSD

Reason being, the LCVP, LCI, LCM load inf and support well, but not devices or vehicles.  LCTs can load either troops or devices.  But if you load the LCTs first, they'll load some troops + devices.  When you go to load the LCVP, LCI, LCM there won't be any troops left for them to load (but pehaps some devices, and then you're stuck with un-used capacity because you loaded troops onto LCTs and left your LCIs empty).

Hope that makes sense.

You'll also want to push a few LCIs or LSTs (or AKs) into your short-legged TFs with LCT, LCVP, and LCM.  They'll only go 3 - 4 hexes otherwise.

Also, be advised that LCVP, LCT, and LCM don't burn vps (and they respawn).  Also you do lose vps for LCI, LST, and LSD (and they don't respawn).

LSTs are golden.

I won't say what my current max lift capacity is in 09-43 (CHS vs Bilbow).  But I did recently dumped 1x USMC Div + 3x RCTs + 3x CB Btns using just landing craft.

Again, you've got to congregate your LC-whatevers to lift any decent sized units (Rgt or Div).  But like I was saying about the Japanese barges, the LCs are tools in the Allied inventory.  If you want to use APs and AKs you can.  But LCs are a tool to be used, so why not.

-F-



Bogo Mil -> RE: LCI/LCT question (1/13/2009 2:33:33 PM)

pro:

* If a TF contains only LC* and AG craft, it is a "barge TF" and will not be attacked by normal airstrikes. Only planes which are set to strafe (naval attack at 100 feet) will attack them. But be carful: A single larger ship (e.g. a LS*) in the TF will destroy this advantage. Airstrikes will fly and they will attack all vessels in the TF, including the barges.

These barge-only-TFs are useful if you need resuplly, reinforcement or evacuation where the enemy rules the sky.

* In an invasion, troops on barges are unloaded fast and with lower disruption than from APs or (even worse) AKs. In an invasion TF you can (and should) mix the barges with larger ships - especially warships to supress CD guns and minesweepers.

con:

Well, all barges are very slow, and they have very low endurance, so they will refuel almost every turn. A TF with barges will never be faster than the slowest possible speed of 2 hexes per day - surprise attacks are not possible.
LCUs become disrupted if they stay on ships for too much time. Thus you should not use barges to bring your LCUs from San Franzisco to the beach of Iwo Shima. Use fast APs and AKs to bring them to a friendly port not too far away from the target, let the troops rest there for a few days and then load them on barges, LS* and small APs for the invasion.



Rainer -> RE: LCI/LCT question (1/13/2009 4:53:33 PM)

con: increased and very heavy casualties.

Not sure the totals of casualties from landing via APs and LSTs sum up, because LST unload far more quickly than APs.
So the number of casualties from unloading LSTs in one day may or may not show the equivalent number of casualties from unloading APs (usually over a number of days).

I want to do a test to land a US Marines Division first from LSTs, make a note of the total of casualties, then spool back to the turn before the Marines are loading, load the Div onto APs and unload at the target, then compare the notes about casualties.
Alas, this is a tedious and time consuming task which needs quite a couple of turns[:(]
But one of these days I'm going to do it and report results, hopefully before AE's coming out and everything related to LCI/LST ships as well as AP ships is going to be changed.

Edit: forgot the PRO. LSTs are VERY usefull to transport Artillery and Tank units. Two or three LSTs will load those units while APs are needed by the dozen to load the same unit.



dhuffjr2 -> RE: LCI/LCT question (1/13/2009 5:41:06 PM)

So how these craft are used will change with AE? Good news. LCVPs were not used as fleets to do assaults but as craft loaded aboard the AP's Ak's as you guys well now. Something about a 'fleet' of a couple hundred landing craft sailing across the Pacific just seems wrong to me.



m10bob -> RE: LCI/LCT question (1/13/2009 6:30:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dhuffjr2

So how these craft are used will change with AE? Good news. LCVPs were not used as fleets to do assaults but as craft loaded aboard the AP's Ak's as you guys well now. Something about a 'fleet' of a couple hundred landing craft sailing across the Pacific just seems wrong to me.



Not if you mix them WITH larger vessels like AK's for the sake of the fuel to cross that expanse, then you can assume they are really all stacked ON the AK's.....If you have to, make a house rule, "x" amount of AK's per "x" amt of LCVP's..
LCI and LCT's are sea-going..



cato13 -> RE: LCI/LCT question (1/13/2009 7:34:06 PM)

excellent info there, cheers guys



Hornblower -> RE: LCI/LCT question (1/14/2009 3:05:50 AM)

You can't have enough LST's...



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