RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (Full Version)

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KHawk -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 2:05:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I have a question about the map: I see that all bases (developed and dot) are shown with hexside details on - but only the bases. Is this the default view, or a choice you made under preferences?

BTW: I never trimmed the corners of my unit counters. If they started to fray, they'd get scotch taped - otherwise they were left alone.



Not default.


This looks more like Zone of Control ownership then hexside detail. I assume if both sides shared a hex the color would show who owns what hexsides. Is that what we are really seeing?

KHawk



scott64 -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 2:22:49 AM)

[X(][X(][X(][X(][X(]

What ships are CM and CMc? [8D]


[sm=00000436.gif][sm=party-smiley-012.gif]



jrcar -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 2:31:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: scott1964

[X(][X(][X(][X(][X(]

What ships are CM and CMc? [8D]


[sm=00000436.gif][sm=party-smiley-012.gif]



CM are minelayers.
CMc are coastal minelayers (smaller loads, smaller range, basically fishing trawler size).

Cheers

Rob



jrcar -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 2:38:12 AM)

I started in 25mm, then 15mm then 1/300th then 6mm...

Just like the "u" just 'cause you don't see it doesn't mean it shouldn't be there! [:)]

Cheers

Rob

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger


quote:

ORIGINAL: jrcar

Now all you counter types bugger off! If you ain't painting the regimental colours on your 6mm high figures you ain't REALLY wargaming [:D]

Cardboard is for kids! (ha that sure shows 'em)



I started with 25mm, and advanced to 15mm. Never saw anything smaller than that (in lead anyways). And there is no "U" in color [:D]




jwilkerson -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 3:55:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
Never saw anything smaller than that (in lead anyways).

You never saw em? Well I used to be able to see em ... 1/285 ... 1/300 ... but I don't much see 'em any more ... I'm stuck on 15s now.
[:D]



RevRick -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 4:35:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bilbow

I wore out a lot of nail clippers doing that. I guess we're dating ourselves. no?


Methinks that a goodly number of us could claim that distinction...



erstad -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 5:46:27 AM)

Anal retentive though I am, I never clipped my counters. But then, I never fawned over the counters the way you folks did.

To me, the great joy was always opening the new rulebook. Much of the basics would be derivative (especially in the SPI games), so you'd go through that quickly. ZOCs - check. Terrain effects - check. Can always move at least one hex, no matter what, except ZOC to ZOC - check. But then you'd get to the "Special Rules." Don't ask me why, but I always thought the Special Rules were the coolest part of a new game.



wild_Willie2 -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 6:02:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

Anal retentive though I am, I never clipped my counters. But then, I never fawned over the counters the way you folks did.



I actually had to look up the meaning of the word "fawned".......[:D][:D][:D][:D]



Andrew Brown -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 6:39:38 AM)

quote:

Don't ask me why, but I always thought the Special Rules were the coolest part of a new game.


Oh dear, what about someone like me, who liked the counters AND the special rules (and the designers and playtesters notes)??



witpqs -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 6:46:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

quote:

Don't ask me why, but I always thought the Special Rules were the coolest part of a new game.


Oh dear, what about someone like me, who liked the counters AND the special rules (and the designers and playtesters notes)??


...AND the maps! [:D]

I used scissors, not nail clippers. [8D]



jrcar -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 7:04:15 AM)

[8|] All right you lot OUT of my thread now... or... or... I'll set the cat loose, turn on the fan and accidently knock the table!

In a couple of hours I'll start looking at the Japanese ORBAT and start positions... once the kids are in bed.

Cheers

Rob



cantona2 -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 7:31:41 AM)

Yes please lets get back to the AE AAR [:D]



Yamato hugger -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 8:22:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
Never saw anything smaller than that (in lead anyways).

You never saw em? Well I used to be able to see em ... 1/285 ... 1/300 ... but I don't much see 'em any more ... I'm stuck on 15s now.
[:D]



I should maybe clarify: Napoleonics. Took me about 45 mins to paint 1. I had (have?) hundreds of them. My 25mm were Brit KGL about a brigade. My 15mm were mostly French, a full strength corps with a Young Guard regiment. Also had some Austrians I was just starting to work on (about 5 bns if I recall correctly) when I started driving over the road and didnt have time for it anymore.



jrcar -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 9:18:32 AM)

Ok lets start looking at OOB. We will start with Naval, as they move the important bits around (the Army), keep the industry going (to give us things to blow things up with), occasionally blow up things for us, and sometimes blow up enemy Naval nasties...

There is so much more in the OOB's the guys have done fantastic work, but to start lets look at the key Auxillary ships that you really need to understand or your glorious advance will quickly splutter on logistics issues.


We have mentioned before one key change in stock is the importance of ports. Ports have increased in importance in a number of ways, one of those is the ability to rearm warships. Basically you need a port of 7 to rearm torpedoes, and BB class vessels need about an 8 or so.

You can effectively increase the rearm level of a port by deploying naval support (Naval HQ's and the larger baseforces). Or you have to employ the specialist ships... the most important are the AE and AKE type vessels.

In AE the AE/AKE are critical for your ability to operate capital ships in most theatres. AE vessels (except for the late war allied ones) can only rearm in a port, when they have supply, and operations points.

The Japanese start off with two AE class vessles, provided you don't loose any this is probably sufficient, but I'd reccomend converting a merchant or two to an AKE to give you some flexibility.

AR class vessels have less use than in stock at the moment, being able to repair Major engine damage, and help to repair all types of minor damage (System, flotation, engine). ARD ships can repair major flotation damage, otherwise major damage on capital ships can only be repaired in a repair yard, with larger ports capable of repair of major damage equal to their port size times 100 (a level 1 port can repair major damage on a ship of 100 or less tons, level 2 101-200 tons). The repair code is a bit complcated at times, and is still being tweaked, but it is explained in the manual.

AS class vessels are like stock, rearming and repairing submarines.

As we get some damaged ships in the game I'll show you more.



[image]local://upfiles/6237/7FD4744830BA474B906741B5D182B1DF.jpg[/image]



jrcar -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 9:44:37 AM)

Now to minewarfare.

Mines are now a limited resource, and need to be carefully managed, as they are individually built as a device, no more minewarfare in the Pacific types games!

Mines can be laid by a variety of vessels, but the principle classes for the Japanes are the CM (seagoing minelayer) and CMc (minelayer, coastal).

Mines decay at a fast rate unless you have a mine tender ACM. The ACM "Tends" the mines and stops 150 per ship decaying.

Mines can be swept by a variety of ships, with DMS (Destroyer Minesweeper), AM (Minesweeper) and AMc (Minesweeper, Coastal) being the key ones.

[image]local://upfiles/6237/EC635DB9A44F4A8F89CC0AE223199ACB.jpg[/image]



jrcar -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 9:56:16 AM)

There are now a lot more options for conversions as the Japanese. These are done by ship class/size, so there is a finate number of ships that can be converted, and ships can convert to one or more types of classes depending on the class and even convert back again!

One which I have used a lot is the conversion of some of the smaller xAKL (cargo ship light, the x indicating it is a commercial merchant marine, not naval vessel) to PB's.

In AE the port sizes forces you to use lots of little TF's to move stuff to and from the smaller ports, with only larger convoys moving between major ports. As the Japanese you can't protect everything, but you do have the option to create some more, slow but semi-OK anti ASW vessels.

These can be assigned to TF's OR you can use the new "waypoint systems" to have a TF "patrol" a route continuosly, I'll sjow that in a few minutes.

Note the screen shot below, this class of vessel can convert to either a PB (Patrol boat), AG (miscellaneous auxillery - basically a better armed small merchant), a mine tender or a Minesweeper coastal.



[image]local://upfiles/6237/CDF748C7B58E49E1935CD8FC8D10BCB9.jpg[/image]



jrcar -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 10:00:26 AM)

By clicking on the yellow text in the above ship it gives you an idea of what you will get, and how long it will take.

This is the same vessel as a PB (Patrol Boat). Note it will take 15 days to convert. These aren't major issues and this vessel can convert in just about any port, just weld on some depth charge racks and add guns :)

To convert you click on the bottome left arrow.







[image]local://upfiles/6237/962A2277AD424CB1915CE2EC7379A3B7.jpg[/image]



jrcar -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 10:02:29 AM)

here she is as an AG, note as this is a simpler conversion it only takes 10 days.



[image]local://upfiles/6237/5D04DF21C961429AA3AE18A201EB8DBB.jpg[/image]



jrcar -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 10:06:29 AM)

Here is an important one, these ones can convert to AKE...



[image]local://upfiles/6237/89581869B9D346DF9159543C8D880677.jpg[/image]



jrcar -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 10:08:36 AM)

But it requires a level 5 port and takes longer to do.



[image]local://upfiles/6237/2643CE4664A949C198EF689529C6D13D.jpg[/image]



jrcar -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 10:12:07 AM)

If you are in a port with a repair shipyard the same class can convert to AR... but as it is a significant change it requires a lot longer and uses shipyard capabilities.

This is I think the only class that converts to AKE or AR, there are limited numbers, and they are a very useful sized ship... convert too many and you are potentially wasting valuable cargo vessels... everything is a tradeoff!



[image]local://upfiles/6237/74BDA45393E44AEEA39FE60F35C984AE.jpg[/image]



jrcar -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 10:20:43 AM)

You can also convert many cargo ships to provide better accomodation for troops. This takes time, and has to be converted back to get the cargo hold space back. This is more important as the game goes on and the Japanese loose amphibious unload bonus's.

Other conversions include AV, AS (like stock) and AKE (aircraft transporters, transports aircraft fully assembled, not crated).

I convert a lot of PB type vessels and a few extra AKE types, plus an AR (in case I loose one). The AKE can also be useful.

The Allies start off with about similar levels of specialist ships and get a lot more in as time goes by. The Japanese get one AV and one AS added to the specialist ships over time, all others need to be converted from merchants.

(BTW all of this is still subject to changes and tweaking in response to testing).

Cheers

Rob






jrcar -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 10:29:22 AM)

On to the least important stuff next, the flyboys [>:]

There are a LOT more varients on aircraft from stock. The art looks amazing (more when we get the next build).

The OOB has been completely redone, and it would take too long to go through all the changes, so if you have specifics I'll try to oblige.

All the stats have been redone as well.

One really usful change for both sides is the "drop tanks" option.

If you are at a base with enough supply you can fit your aircraft (fighters in particular) with drop tanks to increase their range. You suffer penalties in doing so though.

Here is the Zero with tanks...



[image]local://upfiles/6237/DAF4BC3CDBD84B4593024EB8E3B63CEF.jpg[/image]



jrcar -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 10:31:22 AM)

By clicking on the yellow text (which indicates a menu choice) you take remove the drop tanks.



[image]local://upfiles/6237/E3089BB51E1A4D3FA75437C2153CE738.jpg[/image]



jrcar -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 10:40:07 AM)

A key change to air that really slows things down is replacements.

Just so I don't confuse anyone here is a quick cut from the draft manual:

Air units will automatically gain replacements under certain circumstances if aircraft are available in the replacement pool and the air unit has been set to Accept Replacements. To get replacement aircraft to flow automatically into an air unit, there must be planes in the pool and one of the following cases must be true (the first true will take effect):
• The air unit is located at a base with an airfield size of 1+ (or 0 if a float-equipped group and the base is in a coastal hex) and the base has over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool (they may repair before the next orders phase during the repair phase).
• The air unit is located at a base and the HQ that the group is assigned to is within transfer range of the air unit’s aircraft type, and the HQ is located at a base with an airfield size of 1+ and has over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the HQ base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool.
• The air unit is located at a base and the Command level HQ that the group is assigned to is within transfer range of the air unit’s aircraft type, and the Command HQ is located at a base with over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the HQ base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool.
• The air unit is located on a ship and a replenishment air unit is within normal range of the ship, the unit will receive planes from the replenishment unit instead of the pool.
• The air unit is located on a ship in the same hex as a base with an airfield size of 1+ (TF or at anchor) and the base has over 20000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool.
If none of these conditions apply, land based air units may automatically have a sub unit created for it at the base containing the HQ that the air unit is assigned to or the Command HQ of the air unit’s HQ if it is not in the base. The base with the HQ must have supplies that are at least equal to twice the base’s supply needs plus the supplies that will be expended in creating the sub unit, the supply base must be within twice the maximum range of the aircraft type, and there must be planes in the pool equal to:
• 10 + (plane build rate / 2)
If these conditions are met, a sub unit of damaged planes will be placed at the HQ’s location and supplies will be expended from the base. Note Japanese build rates are usually 0 when production is on. Another subgroup will not be formed for the air unit until at least 7 days have elapsed.
A maximum of 12 planes will be added for replacements at a time.


You can add planes and pilots beyond the unit size (but at the moment you can't take them away). So if you are anticipating losses you can build a unit up a bit before sending it to a forward airfield (as long as there is airsupport, you don't go over the stacking limits). Only a maximum of the authorised strength will fly. So if you add 100 planes and 100 pilots (if you could, don't know if you can) to a unit of only 9 planes then only 9 would every fly at once.

This can get confusing at times if sub units are created as per the last clause. This most ofetn happens when operating in the SWPAC or CentPac. You then need to manually ship or air transfer the sub units to the main unit.




jrcar -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 10:44:23 AM)

Upgrading planes is also harder than in stock. To be honest at times this can be a pain, in particular in the CentPac. But I think the pain is worth it because it slows the game down, increases the need for HQ's and prior planning. Again a quick cut from the draft manual:

There must be a sufficient number of the new model planes in the Replacement Pool to equal the maximum ready aircraft level for the unit in order for the upgrade to occur.
In addition, one of the following cases must be true (the first true will take effect):
• The air unit is located at a base with an airfield size of 7+ and the base has over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool (they may repair before the next orders phase during the repair phase).
• The air unit is located at a base and the HQ that the group is assigned to is within transfer range of the air unit’s current or upgrading aircraft type and the HQ is located at a base with an airfield size of 7+ and has over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the HQ base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool.
• The air unit is located at a base and the Command level HQ that the group is assigned to is within transfer range of the air unit’s current or upgrading aircraft type and the Command HQ is located at a base with over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the HQ base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool.
• The air unit is located on a ship in the same hex as a base with an airfield size of 7+ (TF or at anchor) and the base has over 20000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool.
If one of these conditions is met, the unit's current aircraft are placed in the player's Replacement Pool, and the unit has its number of damaged aircraft set equal to the maximum ready aircraft level for the unit.



jrcar -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 10:59:10 AM)

Now the important bit, the land OOB!

There is sooo much change here. Once you get over the "oh my god" factor of the fabulous map you start to look at the land units... and you can quickly get overwhelmed, and absolutely excited at the same time!

At start much of the war is fought with battalion - regimental sized units. Many of the Japanes divisons (except in China and some of the Malaysian invasion ones) are broken down into their regiments, and some regiments to battalions. This isn't the old DivA/B/C (which is still there), but infantry regts, gun regts, engineers, cavalry.

This is really important as many of the targets don't warrent large units at the start... but as the war goes one you need to (and can) recombine these smaller elements into larger ones, sometimes up several layers (Bn's to Regt's, Regt to Div).

The Allies are also the same, Andy Mac as done an awesome job there as well!

The old baseforce system, and NLF units are all changed as well. For the Japanese there are few CD units, although some baseforces upgrade later on.

There are a range of airsupport options, from companies with 8 airsupport, through battalions (24) and special base forces, and then the AirHQ's (100+). This gives a lot of flexibility, which you need as the stacking limits on aircraft keep you more dispersed than in stock.

I won't say much more at this stage, although I can show specifics of things to specific requests. As the AAR goes on I'll try and show as many things as I can.

As I've mentioned just a few times now, naval support, Naval and AirHQ have a much more important role to play in AE. In addition the Japanese get Port operating units. These include naval support and engineer to help build and support key locations (usually oil/resource centres, but also key bases).

Each nationality is also colour coded, and there are stacks of lovely new icons to help differentiate units... will keep you cardboard counter types happy for ages (except you can't use your toenail clippers to cut them off the screen!).

Cheers

Rob






cantona2 -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 11:01:06 AM)

Any previews of unit icons we havent since yet?  Great posts though, great to be able to learn about the product in this manner before its released!



jrcar -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 11:08:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2

Any previews of unit icons we havent since yet?  Great posts though, great to be able to learn about the product in this manner before its released!



Well I don't know what you have seen, and there are some changes in the next build... so I think I'll wait a bit, unless one of teh art guys wants to post some.

The ship TF icons have also changed.

While at first you it may appear as gold plating it really helps you as you are playing the game. Good icons should convey a lot of eaning at a single glance, and these ones certainly do!

Again a another "small" change (actually lots of coding and art effort) that means i'd never go back to stock.


BTW my wife loves your sub picture!

Cheers

Rob



cantona2 -> RE: WITP AE AAR Feb 09 Cathartes-JRCAR (Jap) (2/2/2009 11:12:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jrcar

quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2

Any previews of unit icons we havent since yet?  Great posts though, great to be able to learn about the product in this manner before its released!



Well I don't know what you have seen, and there are some changes in the next build... so I think I'll wait a bit, unless one of teh art guys wants to post some.

The ship TF icons have also changed.

While at first you it may appear as gold plating it really helps you as you are playing the game. Good icons should convey a lot of eaning at a single glance, and these ones certainly do!

Again a another "small" change (actually lots of coding and art effort) that means i'd never go back to stock.


BTW my wife loves your sub picture!

Cheers

Rob


Kudos goes to rogueusmc for that one!

The icons are much more that glod plating, they help in the immesrion of the game. Ive noticed that the transport TF icon has changed, looks much more like a transport ship, great!

As regards the icons i was referring to the unit icons. I understand that some satellite Japan allied units will be on the board, will they also be in red?



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