Bombardments, Minefields & Vehicular Breakdown

Bombardments, Minefields & Vehicular Breakdown (Full Version)

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dundas61 -> Bombardments, Minefields & Vehicular Breakdown (2/20/2009 9:11:41 AM)
Hi there, a few questions I hope someone can answer for me .... 1) How can I get OBA to stop firing after say 10 turns (to simulate initial Russian bombardments) ? 2) How can I create hidden minefields ? 3) How can I simulate vehicles potentially breaking down (eg from lack of fuel) ?

TAIL GUNNER -> RE: Bombardments, Minefields & Vehicular Breakdown (2/21/2009 6:39:12 PM)
Sorry, but the answer to all your questions is "you can't do that."

Busto963 -> RE: Bombardments, Minefields & Vehicular Breakdown (2/22/2009 5:27:49 AM)
quote: 1) How can I get OBA to stop firing after say 10 turns (to simulate initial Russian bombardments) ? A: You cannot do this per say, but this would be a great addition to the game - pre-planned artillery concentrations and rolling barrages (especially for you Russians!). Propose it to Jason Petho! 2) How can I create hidden minefields ? A: I believe that if you play with fog of war - you will not automatically detect minefields. 3) How can I simulate vehicles potentially breaking down (eg from lack of fuel) ? A: I believe this is already factored in to the rules, but in a rather indirect and abstract way. When a machine gun platoon fires at a tank platoon; and through miraculous luck inflicts casualties - most players cry foul. I view the damage as a little luck (okay a lot), but also the cumulative effect of non-catastrophic battle damage, vehicles getting stuck, breakdowns, part shortages, crew injuries, units getting lost, units getting different orders, etc. The Russians continued to employ anti-tank rifles throughout the war, not out of the illusion that they were going to destroy a late war German AFV with a single shot, but they kept shooting up main gun optics, vision blocks, smoke launchers, and of course any unfortunate crewman or commander who exposed himself. This got so bad that the Germans were constantly redesigning AFV vision blocks and weapon sight covers, replaced the commander's couples with progressively less prominent ones etc. One of the ugly secrets of the WWII is that most German tanks (including the Panther and Tiger) had ongoing issues with transmissions, final drive units, fuel pumps etc. that left them fairly unreliable mechanically compared to Allied tanks; particularly U.S. AFVs. E.G. the initial T34s tanks were manufactured to very high quality standards before the Soviets had to move their factories. Go look at unit operational reports in German units and you find a fairly consistent string of incidents throughout the war like Jadgpanther companies loosing half their strength in a 25 km road march due engine fires (fuel leaks).

dundas61 -> RE: Bombardments, Minefields & Vehicular Breakdown (2/23/2009 11:09:04 PM)
Thanks for the feedback there, Busto963. Will certainly pass on point #1 to Jason. BTW, the reason for the numerous German mechanical faults was apparently due to frequent covert sabotage by the many slave labourers used by the Germans, so we should never forget their hidden and long unrecognised contribution to the war effort !

Busto963 -> RE: Bombardments, Minefields & Vehicular Breakdown (2/25/2009 2:42:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dundas61 BTW, the reason for the numerous German mechanical faults was apparently due to frequent covert sabotage by the many slave labourers used by the Germans, so we should never forget their hidden and long unrecognised contribution to the war effort ! This of course was a factor, but the reality was that Germany was not the industrial power-house that people think she was leading up to and during WWII. There were exceptions of course, but overall Germany mismanaged her industry badly during the war. These inadequacies were exacerbated by the incompetence and mismanagement inherent in state directed production. There were exceptions of course, and Speer made heroic efforts in the late war, but overall Germany mismanaged her industry badly during the war. In "Why the Allies Won WWII" by Richard Overy, a noted analyst, covers these failings with the perspective of a noted analyst, rather than that of a historian. The case of the worlds largest automotive factory, the Opel plant being left idle for much of the war (while the Heer remained increasingly a foot-bound/horse-drawn army) because of concerns over Ford ownership is classic. Transportation woes and a shortage of raw materials did not help. For example in terms of stamping, and cutting of helical gears the Germans were way behind the Allies in capability. And for the country that invented the diesel not to have a viable commercial engine design for use in tanks and APCs was almost criminal. Thomas L. Jentz and Hilary L. Doyle have done excellent work examining German armor through several books as well as the exhaustive "Panzer Tracts" series - their conclusion is that mechanically speaking, German AFVs were not really mass produced; they were more akin to ship fitting! That is most components and major assemblies were not designed to be interchangeable, or backwards compatable; often for no reason. Production was not synchronized across suppliers etc. Add mechanical complexity (often without necessity) into the mix and it is a wonder that German mechainics kept their AFVs running at all.

countblue -> RE: Bombardments, Minefields & Vehicular Breakdown (3/17/2009 4:25:49 PM)
I just want to say that a lot of your points, if not all, are valid. Only late in the war, after 44, the germans started to use parts on more than one vehicle such streamlining their production line at least a little bit. Their palette of vehicles was much to broad (and exotic) for their pretty obvious shortcomings in resources. In general the german war machine was a beast but a very brittle one in terms of its base. Some of their inventions (V1/V2) are much overestimated and would not have changed the outcome of the war even if their resources would not have been that strained as they were. A war is about resources and the germans didnt manage theirs economically enough on a global scale throughout the war. Only at at the end they took to their full potential and then it was to late and to little (luckily). Nevertheless they make my day in EF. [:D] CB

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