How the west was won (Full Version)

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hellfirejet -> How the west was won (2/22/2009 9:03:50 PM)

Hello folks,
I would like to see a computer game based on General Custer and the 7th calvary, trying to restore order against the Sioux and all the other Red Indian tribes, you could have all them civilians attempting to move in big waggon trains,searching for new land to live in and grow crops or build big ranches for herds of cattle ?

With the Indians attempting to drive them from there land.[:)]


Battle of the little big horn could be a scenario.[:D]

Anyone from Matrix interested in creating a game all about this period in Americas history, yes, no, maybe perhaps?[8D]



leastonh1 -> RE: How the west was won (2/22/2009 9:24:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hellfirejet
With the Indians attempting to drive them from there land.[:)]

I thought it was the other way around?



old man of the sea -> RE: How the west was won (2/22/2009 9:35:50 PM)

my advice is to lock this up.

Genocide is not the theme for a game in my opinion.

E



Terminus -> RE: How the west was won (2/22/2009 10:03:58 PM)

Pretty despicable idea, to be sure...



leastonh1 -> RE: How the west was won (2/22/2009 10:13:04 PM)

hellfirejet - This is a polite suggestion. Read up on American history and then you'll understand why people here would get so upset with your original post.



jjax -> RE: How the west was won (2/22/2009 10:24:05 PM)

Worst idea i've heard in a long time.....



Dennistoun -> RE: How the west was won (2/22/2009 10:39:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jjax

Worst idea i've heard in a long time.....


Was the bit about being from Scotland edited?



jjax -> RE: How the west was won (2/22/2009 10:44:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: teddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: jjax

Worst idea i've heard in a long time.....


Was the bit about being from Scotland edited?


Yep.....I was going to say that being from scotland (and over seas in general) may excuse an individual from knowing how sensitive those type of issues are for us North Americans. But then again, it is probably not much of a stretch for you to figure it out on your own....so i took it out.

Don't worry...it wasn't a jab at scots



KG Erwin -> RE: How the west was won (2/22/2009 11:16:07 PM)

"How The West Was Won?" A good live album by Led Zeppelin.

Otherwise speaking, a thread worthy of burial.



hellfirejet -> RE: How the west was won (2/22/2009 11:30:44 PM)

Ok folks,
I opologise I did not mean to offend anyone[:(] I just like all them western movies!

How does it differ from the Union v Confederate situation? Matrix have game relating to that.



hadberz -> RE: How the west was won (2/22/2009 11:40:29 PM)

If your looking for US Indians wars wargames, This is the only one that I know of that's still for sell, Custers Last Command http://www.jlssg.com/custer.html

Age of Rifles has scenarios covering the US Indians wars, but good luck finding it for sell anywhere.

Any new wargame on the subject should focus on the military aspects of the conflict.



KG Erwin -> RE: How the west was won (2/22/2009 11:42:35 PM)

The truth is that this aspect of American history evokes very strong emotional responses, so we are not yet ready for that type of game.  The closest we have is Wars in America (BOA2), in which Native Americans are combatants.  Check it out.  



hellfirejet -> RE: How the west was won (2/22/2009 11:48:59 PM)

Hello KG Erwin,
You do not have to explain about the early history of America, Scotland v England have had our share off history as well, again I opologise if I have upset anyone that was the last thing I would want to do sorry guys [:(]



V22 Osprey -> RE: How the west was won (2/23/2009 12:13:15 AM)

Dang, you guys got all riled up over nothing.....hellfirejet odviously wasn't talking about genocide but was tell he would like to see battles after the Civil War as the US began to expand west, don't see whats so ''despicable'' about that.I myself would like to play Custer's Last stand and see if I could have done things differently and actually have survived....



hellfirejet -> RE: How the west was won (2/23/2009 12:45:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hadberz

If your looking for US Indians wars wargames, This is the only one that I know of that's still for sell, Custers Last Command http://www.jlssg.com/custer.html

Age of Rifles has scenarios covering the US Indians wars, but good luck finding it for sell anywhere.

Any new wargame on the subject should focus on the military aspects of the conflict.



Thanks hadberz,
I checked out the link and have downloaded the Custer demo. I used to play the battle of the little big horn board game many moons ago, thanks again for link cheers[:)]

Update I just run the game from the link Custers last command, and the game runs using Vista great stuff,don't know how old the game is but it looks interesting.[:)]



06 Maestro -> RE: How the west was won (2/23/2009 1:00:51 AM)

Political correctness has infected gamers too apparently. Honestly, I was somewhat surprised by the suggestion too. It would, however, be a very interesting game.

It seems that if Nazi Germany had its way in Russia (the plan was so crazy I doubt it would have survived Hitler anyway), Russian west of the Volga would have been eliminated. Should eastern front games be banned? What about the various colony/empire building games, those involved some very nasty idea's. WW2 in China, anyone?

The American treatment of the Indians is not something to be proud about, but it was inevitable. A culture barely removed from the stone age came into contact with the modern world. The two were not going to mix-one had to go. There was no question as to which one it was going to be. This was something dictated by fate.

Also, I would say it was more a matter of control and eliminating a way of life, rather than genocide. There are millions of native Americans around today-with some pretty cushy benefits. There are also many millions of "white" and "black" Americans with Indian blood in them. I will not argue that they were not treated unfairly, that is clear. Treaties were also broken multiple times. The simple truth is that there was no room for nomadic nations on the north American continent-especially if they took up arms to repulse the invader's.

It would make an interesting game. Some events of that era would be unsettling though. No doubt that in our brave new world some would call such a game a hate crime.

BTW, whatever happened to that first north American settlement?



PunkReaper -> RE: How the west was won (2/23/2009 1:07:59 AM)

Hellfirejet I remember playing for hours The Battle of the Little Big Horn..../

[image]local://upfiles/22092/D53F3CBAF8BE4B48860A403ECF1016A0.jpg[/image]

[image]local://upfiles/22092/C0ADC14301684D8CA291BA691DC89498.jpg[/image]



hellfirejet -> RE: How the west was won (2/23/2009 1:17:14 AM)

Hi Punk Reaper,
Well them photos bring back many happy memories cheers [:)]



Titanwarrior89 -> RE: How the west was won (2/23/2009 1:20:36 AM)

I could care less about Polical correctness. Some americans reek of it. So guys let get off our high horse. This guy ment nothing by it. I think most knew that, even after they said what they did.[:-]
quote:

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

Political correctness has infected gamers too apparently. Honestly, I was somewhat surprised by the suggestion too. It would, however, be a very interesting game.

It seems that if Nazi Germany had its way in Russia (the plan was so crazy I doubt it would have survived Hitler anyway), Russian west of the Volga would have been eliminated. Should eastern front games be banned? What about the various colony/empire building games, those involved some very nasty idea's. WW2 in China, anyone?

The American treatment of the Indians is not something to be proud about, but it was inevitable. A culture barely removed from the stone age came into contact with the modern world. The two were not going to mix-one had to go. There was no question as to which one it was going to be. This was something dictated by fate.

Also, I would say it was more a matter of control and eliminating a way of life, rather than genocide. There are millions of native Americans around today-with some pretty cushy benefits. There are also many millions of "white" and "black" Americans with Indian blood in them. I will not argue that they were not treated unfairly, that is clear. Treaties were also broken multiple times. The simple truth is that there was no room for nomadic nations on the north American continent-especially if they took up arms to repulse the invader's.

It would make an interesting game. Some events of that era would be unsettling though. No doubt that in our brave new world some would call such a game a hate crime.

BTW, whatever happened to that first north American settlement?




PunkReaper -> RE: How the west was won (2/23/2009 1:22:14 AM)

I think that us Brits don't realise how sensitive our American cousins are about Native Americans. Hey I've just played Hammer of the Scots and didn't feel guilty once[:D][:D]



hellfirejet -> RE: How the west was won (2/23/2009 1:22:40 AM)

Hi O6 Maestro,
I agree it would make an interesting game, I did not mean to offend anyone with the post!

By the way although Japan attacked the USA before declaring war officially I would guess Japan also have a reason to distrust the USA thanks to the Atomic bombs ?

But it did end the war very much sooner!



hellfirejet -> RE: How the west was won (2/23/2009 1:26:39 AM)

By the way Punk Reaper,
I'm trying to get all the Scottish builders who are out off work just now to help rebuild Hadrians wall. Hehehehe[:D]



Mac67 -> RE: How the west was won (2/23/2009 1:27:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hellfirejet
Scotland v England have had our share off history as well


Now that was biased, you had Mel Gibson on your side [;)]

[image]http://splinteredsunrise.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/braveheart.jpg[/image]



PunkReaper -> RE: How the west was won (2/23/2009 1:30:11 AM)

Don't get me started about Mel Gibson and Braveheart....... What a rubbish film...... He makes up his history as he goes along. Now If he played General Custer he would have beaten the Indians and managed to blame the English. [:@][:@]



hellfirejet -> RE: How the west was won (2/23/2009 1:31:47 AM)

Yes and he looks braw wearing a skirt big jessie [:D] Oh no it was a KILT not a skirt hehehehe[:)]



hellfirejet -> RE: How the west was won (2/23/2009 1:33:48 AM)

He was good in Patriot [:)] He did win single handed did he not ?[:D]



PunkReaper -> RE: How the west was won (2/23/2009 1:37:31 AM)

Only because he was writing the script. I'm surprised he wasn't allowed to survive in the film and become king if England



Erik Rutins -> RE: How the west was won (2/23/2009 1:38:11 AM)

Don't worry about it, Hellfirejet. I don't think it would be an easy conflict to model though and probably not as interesting as you think. There's a lot of history there with plenty of conflict on all sides and some fairly even battles at times, but I don't think it really would make a good wargame. The overall strategic picture was not a balanced one and the long-term outcome was never really in doubt. Plus, as you can see, it's a touchy subject.

Guys, I understand why some of you got up in arms given the way some parts of the original post were phrased, but seriously. If we can discuss wargames involving Nazi Germany, I certainly would have thought we could handle discussing Custer.

With that said, I'm locking this up given how folks have already gotten worked up, tossing around terms like genocide.

Regards,

- Erik



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