How do you supply Australia? (Full Version)

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rogue -> How do you supply Australia? (2/23/2009 3:08:17 AM)

I have to admit that I took a hiatus from WinP once I realized jsut how HUGE the logistics for this game really are. I played about 4 months as the allies and had not even made so much as a dent in starting a true offensive. I finally realized that Australia has not industrial city by which to move supplies around that nation. Which means that they are totally dependant on the US and India to keep all their cities supplied. How exactly does one go about that? I know how to make the convoys but I don't think that they have the range to make it to Australia in one shot. I have had problems making underway replinshment work. For some reason the ships never seem to take oil from the cargo of the oilers, but ranther the general fuel supply. How do I make a reliable convoy system that can keep enough supplies in AU without it constantly running out and waiting a month or more for more supply?



n01487477 -> RE: How do you supply Australia? (2/23/2009 3:36:50 AM)

Your first job is to determine how much Oil and/or Res you need ... so what mod are you playing ?

Either Tracker or Decoder (actually it doesn't do Allies) can tell you this information, or you can do it manually by determining how much HI,Man,Oil,Res is in OZ.

Then use Bohdi's util to determine how many days your TF will take. By using these numbers you can determine how much per month ... etc.

CS TF can do the job automatically, but I'd do it all manually.

Or if you want to post the mod / numbers - I'm sure we can work it out together [;)]



rogue -> RE: How do you supply Australia? (2/23/2009 6:14:52 AM)

I'm just playing the normal version of the game and am not using any mods



Barb -> RE: How do you supply Australia? (2/23/2009 6:46:24 AM)

If you lack the range (with escorts - AKs could have much more than needed) set temporary home base at Pago-Pago or Suva. Once there refuel escorts and assign new home base at Australia.



n01487477 -> RE: How do you supply Australia? (2/23/2009 7:33:09 AM)

OK so let's look at it ...

OZ needs 2970 Oil per turn. It is self sufficient in Resources.

450 Oil is already produced, leaving a shortfall of 2520/turn.

I haven't loaded stock into Bohdi's util and it is really dependent on the speed of your TF, but let us say 25 days from LA to Sydney.

2520*25=63000 Oil each 25 days...with a few small TK's to move the Oil around to the bases that have HI(I prefer this to the engine doing it). Including Perth which only produces Half the amount (and of course Perth is closer to India and Burma than LA).

Make sense ?

[edit] And in response to your real Q... Add one large TK or AO loaded with fuel instead of Oil to resupply the TF enroute. The TF cannot use Oil to resupply, must be fuel.



[image]local://upfiles/19798/5C5E9872554145B0B5C112DC274F0816.jpg[/image]



USSAmerica -> RE: How do you supply Australia? (2/23/2009 12:00:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Your first job is to determine how much Oil and/or Res you need ... so what mod are you playing ?

Either Tracker or Decoder (actually it doesn't do Allies) can tell you this information, or you can do it manually by determining how much HI,Man,Oil,Res is in OZ.

Then use Bohdi's util to determine how many days your TF will take. By using these numbers you can determine how much per month ... etc.

CS TF can do the job automatically, but I'd do it all manually.

Or if you want to post the mod / numbers - I'm sure we can work it out together [;)]



One quick correction, Damian. Decoder does work for the Allies. I've used it for just this type of information. Now that I'm using Tracker, I continue to update Decoder for each turn of my pbem game, mostly out of habit, but Tracker really provides all this information.



n01487477 -> RE: How do you supply Australia? (2/23/2009 12:03:41 PM)

Oops sorry to Woo --- the last time I used Decoder was obviously some time ago ... Thanks for telling me [;)]



skrewball -> RE: How do you supply Australia? (2/23/2009 1:58:41 PM)

No need to make the guy's head explode! Lol.

Simply any 20k endurance TK and AK will have the range to make it to Aussie by way of Pago Pago or other southern island. But like an earlier poster said, it's best to have a refueling station set up so you can top off the tanks of your escorts. Also remember that escorts will refuel from the TF they are in if there is enough to go around!

One thing to remember is if you are going to use the "Refueling Station", make sure your TFs are set to "Do Not Unload" or else they will start to offload the cargo.



51st Highland Div -> RE: How do you supply Australia? (2/23/2009 2:08:23 PM)

A timely post as i have also come back from a break to playing WitP, with the supply of Australia one of the first (among many) allied problems to work out..[:)]



stuman -> RE: How do you supply Australia? (2/23/2009 4:49:00 PM)

I have found that, in stock against AI,  do the following and there is no problem slowly building up supply in both Australia, and the island chain leading there ( I mean by that suppling the island bases that run from Pearl to OZ in the South Seas ). I load up ships on the WC with supplies and send them south with pago pago as a way point as others have mentioned. Switching back and forth the home port/destination to ensure the ships do not take a short cut passing by Tarawa ( where there is the risk of getting bombed ). I send oil tankers periodically from the west coast as well, letting them dump their loads in OZ. I do this as often as I remember, and/or there is oil built up in San Diego. This way you help OZ make its own supplies, but that is not enuf to build up everything you need,  so moving those mountains of supplies from the WC in routine supply transports is necessary.



Jim D Burns -> RE: How do you supply Australia? (2/23/2009 6:04:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477
I haven't loaded stock into Bohdi's util and it is really dependent on the speed of your TF, but let us say 25 days from LA to Sydney.



25 days... perhaps if you sailed in a straight line through the Marshall’s, but that is suicide.

More like 60 days if you sail in the typical L shaped route most players use to get fleets into Oz (south to Pago Pago area, then west to Oz). And if your opponent is aggressive with his carriers in the central pacific, make that a 3-4 month trip instead of just the typical two month trip, as you’ll be forced to sail along the eastern and southern map edges.

In CHS I found one large 400,000 - 500,000 ton oil fleet per year was enough to keep the industry chugging along at a reasonable pace. I then tried to get about 100,000 tons of supply in from the US about every other month or so, but that’s just subsistence level supply. I also occasionally sent some large fuel convoys in as well, as you want a large reserve of fuel in case you need to base your carriers at Oz bases during periods of intense naval actions. Noumea is the preferred refueling base, but keep a good stock of fuel at Oz and a smaller one in New Zealand so you have somewhere to send your fleets should your main refueling base at Noumea fall.

Forget sending supply to Oz from India, it’s too easy for Japan to interdict your fleets due to the narrow map edge along the west side. I send all long legged AKs from India to the US right away. Anything with 12000+ endurance should be sent to the US via the long map edge route (west-south-east) in the first week or two, before Japan is in position to interdict the west map edge.

You’ll have plenty of AKs arriving later to keep things going in India, and there really isn’t enough stuff to be shipped early on, so you won’t really miss that tonnage in the opening months.

To be able to launch large offensives against major Japanese landings in Oz, you’ll need to get several 500,000 ton supply convoys in right before you attack so you can feed the 8-10 divisions or more (plus all the air) that you’ll need to force Japan off the continent.

Jim



Ron Saueracker -> RE: How do you supply Australia? (2/23/2009 7:34:26 PM)

Heck, I just ran supply using CS convoys from North America and Panama, actually San Diego and LA to Panama CS convoys, in lieu of Gulf Ports, allowed the Panama direct to Melbourne runs ) to various island bases like Samoa and Bora Bora. Then ran CS convoys to Oz, NZ etc.



stuman -> RE: How do you supply Australia? (2/23/2009 8:03:14 PM)

Jim's points are well taken I think playing a human , but its easy against the AI in stock. You can run suppies from India to OZ no problem. Things change drastically otherwise.



RUPD3658 -> RE: How do you supply Australia? (2/23/2009 9:37:53 PM)

A good pbem player will put an AV on spotter duty in the middle of the IO to look for this. CVs can make quick work of unescorted convoys.




stuman -> RE: How do you supply Australia? (2/23/2009 10:02:54 PM)

Actually that very point alone is one reason that a , so far, AI player like myself would be in serious trouble from the beginning against an experienced human player. I am only into April of '42 but I am busy making a list of all of the adjustments I am going to have to make in my first PBEM.  The OZ supply chain is one of the most obvious differences to a new player ; I know what I would be doing if I were the Jap. and it would make my current supply runs next to impossible by sometime in January.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: How do you supply Australia? (2/23/2009 11:33:30 PM)

Well, always felt there should have been a corridor with a buffer zone to keep the Japanese player from interdicting convoys all the way to the map edge because of a lack of entry points other than India (ie, South Africa).



Sayar -> RE: How do you supply Australia? (2/24/2009 12:57:50 AM)

for stock there is no need to think about oil\resources for allies at all. You have nearly unlimited supply and fuel in karachi and west coast.
Just create 1 70k supply convoy at karachi and send it to derby\darwin. Add few TK's with fuel. Send twice of this in first month.
Also send 30 large AK and 10-20 TK from west coast to brisbane with supply and fuel per month.
Send large transports from OZ and NZ to west coast to help shipping.
Should be more than enough. All depends from your strategy, how intensive will be usage though.
India convoys should avoid to close malaya and java. US convoys should pass pago pago (if japanese will not advance here).
Sometimes it could be worthy to ship oil from palembang and java to darwin - but against human player it could be costly.



John 3rd -> RE: How do you supply Australia? (2/24/2009 1:20:50 AM)

The easiest way to supply Australia is simply surrender and let Japan TRY to supply it!  [:D]



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