new game for experienced players (Full Version)

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polarole -> new game for experienced players (2/24/2009 8:23:10 AM)

hi folks,

i like to get my feet wet in hosting a game and am therefore starting a new game for experienced players.
i am looking for players who are used to eia game as well as the mechanics of the pc game and who are willing to play til the end even if things turn out to run badly.

options may be discussed even though i have a strong preference for playing without economic manipulation as it is a big actionkiller in this game.

OPTIONS

Winter Land Movement No
Guard Commit Yes
Allow PBEM Host Yes
Allow Option Changes during the game Yes
Third Party battle resolution No
PBEM passwords No
Econ Manip No
GB/FR War Yes
Leader Cas No
Privateers No
PBEM Quick No
Strait control Yes
Lille crossing arrow Yes

if you are interested just post here and i will count you in as long as there are open slots.

bye
ole



obsidiandrag -> RE: new game for experienced players (2/24/2009 3:16:11 PM)

I would be interested but have questions:
are we using 1.05.05?
Will we be updating to official patches during the game?
can we vote for some options?
I would like to have leader casualties ( I like risking the unknown )
I would like winter movement as it makes you think a little more for 3 months of the year when France can out move you x2
I like Privateers (just to save the $ on light fleets that you aren't using anyway)
I like Manipulation as you can work it both ways!

Just some thoughts.









GMeyer -> RE: new game for experienced players (2/24/2009 3:46:46 PM)

I am interested and am willing to go along with your specifications.



jagdwolf -> RE: new game for experienced players (2/24/2009 6:12:24 PM)

I'm interested, veteran of the board game, but I've never done a PBEM game of it.



polarole -> RE: new game for experienced players (2/25/2009 10:18:50 AM)

hi folks,

ok thats 3 and 4 in total. we can always agree/vote on options and find a solution for this imo.

bye
olaf

player list:
obsidiandragon
gmeyer
jagdwolf
polarole



crimson_gr1 -> RE: new game for experienced players (2/26/2009 1:08:29 PM)

Hi guys. I am a veteran of both the board and the PC game. Excuse my english as it's not my native language (i'm greek). I would appreciate a more realistic approach in the options (winter movement -> Yes, Leader Cas -> Yes, Econ Man -> Yes), but a vote should settle this.

Costas



Jimmer -> RE: new game for experienced players (2/26/2009 4:12:17 PM)

I'ld be interested. However, I intend to keep my copy of the game up-to-date as far as the semi-released "beta" patches (not the true beta-tester versions, but the ones that members can download).

I have some option changes I would like to add:

First, tied to the "GB and France are at war" option, carry an "house rule" that they can only get to peace from that first war with an unconditional surrender of one or the other. Plus, they can never ally.

Second, please consider adding a "time to take a move" restriction. For example, "after 24 hours of non-interaction, the AI will take your phase/turn". Note that I recognize that there are times when a player simply can't take his turn, so extensions have to be allowed. But, to get an extension, the player has to check in BEFORE the 24 hours have elapsed.

Also, let's allow phase skipping, if that option is present in the game when we start or later in the game's life.

Also, a house rule that you can't declare war on a minor which is influenced by a major power ally before that diplomacy phase. It prevents the gamey tactics of declaring war and having your partner let the war lapse, thus giving you all the troops. This is closer to the original EiA (which didn't have influence or ally relationships).

One last thing: Let's not use the GAP. The limit of 30 VP maximum is absurdly low for France. We can do the bids manually, or I have written a bid-calculator in Excel/VBA that can do it without the 30 VP limitation. The only restriction is that I have to post my bid first, because I'll get to see the other bids as they come in, which could give me an advantage.



polarole -> RE: new game for experienced players (2/27/2009 1:14:10 PM)

hi folks,

lets first collect players then decide on options houserules timelimits etc.

here is a set of rules that del put together and that worked pretty fine so far in iron_topsail:

OPTIONS

Winter Land Movement No
Guard Commit Yes
Allow PBEM Host Yes
Allow Option Changes during the game Yes
Third Party battle resolution No
PBEM passwords No
Econ Manip Yes
GB/FR War Yes
Leader Cas No
Privateers No
PBEM Quick No
Strait control Yes
Lille crossing arrow Yes

HOUSE RULES (Some borrowed from elsewhere on this forum)

1) We will have a pre-game diplomacy and declarations of war phase. All players will resubmit their identical bids after the initial country allocation, and free pre-game declarations of war can be added at that point.

2) You cannot use a known (in Mantis) game bug to deliberate advantage against another player.

3) GB and FR can only have unconditional surrender; France must take 2 fleets and enforced access; Britain must take Napoleon.

4) Dardanelles Restriction: Unless Constantinople is besieged, you can not sail into or through the Sea of Marmara (the Straits) or blockade Constantinople. Owner of Constantinople excepted, of course.

5) Any controlling country cannot use fleet/corps against any country NOT declaring on minor (or at war with minor) until war is lapsed or minor conquered.

5a) You can not attack a minor that you did not declare war on. Example 1: France and UK are at war. Spain Dows on Portugal. France gets control of Portugal. Britain can not attack Portuguese forces unless War between Spain and Portugal lapses and France gains full control. Example Two: Britain and Russia are at war with France. Britain DOWs against Denmark. France gains control. Russia can not attack Denmark unless war between Denmark and UK lapses and France gains full control of Denmark. Similarly, you can not use DoW acquired minors to take action other than defending/attacking against their aggressor until the initial war has lapsed.

6) Cannot declare war on a minor power with intention of lapsing to give to another.

7) The defender in a multi-corps battle must send his defense choice to a trusted ally.

8) ALL PATCHES INCLUDING BETAS adopted -- sorry about this one but I'm a game beta tester so I need to keep my versions updated.

9) Scenario/Game Editor to be used to fix bug issues in PP, money, etc.

i personaly hate using econo manipulation option as it is a big incentive for doing nothing and have boring games:
get turkey for 1, never do anything but a +2 eco shift and have decent chances of winning the game. thats not very gamy imo. just my 2 cent.

general philosophy of the houserules should be to avoid/prevent loopholy behaviour of players exploiting some weird rules/bugs, i hope that we can agree on this.

regarding the 30vps i see no problem with that. in the boardgame at least you will have 0 chance of winning the game vs competent opponents bidding 30 for france. but we will find a solution for that as well.

bye
olaf

player list:
obsidiandragon
gmeyer
jagdwolf
polarole
crimson_gr1
jimmer



jagdwolf -> RE: new game for experienced players (2/27/2009 10:03:42 PM)

Just to check in, I am okay with pretty much any house rules/variations as long as they are stated beforehand. In case we start quickly: I will be away and unable to access my computer from March 7th-15th.



GMeyer -> RE: new game for experienced players (2/28/2009 4:35:15 PM)

Any idea when we might begin?



Jimmer -> RE: new game for experienced players (2/28/2009 7:09:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: polarole

hi folks,

lets first collect players then decide on options houserules timelimits etc.

here is a set of rules that del put together and that worked pretty fine so far in iron_topsail:

OPTIONS


I'm OK with these. I don't like 5 (but 5a is OK).



JavaJoe -> RE: new game for experienced players (3/2/2009 12:36:54 PM)

is this still open?



polarole -> RE: new game for experienced players (3/2/2009 1:07:37 PM)

hi javajoe,

yes its still open so you would be the 7th player if interested?

bye
ole



JavaJoe -> RE: new game for experienced players (3/3/2009 11:23:23 PM)

yes,

throw my hat into the ring



Jimmer -> RE: new game for experienced players (3/4/2009 1:41:27 AM)

Say, what are we going to do about the multi-district minors bug. It's not fixed until 1.06, according to Mantis. It would affect the beginning game pretty heavily.



polarole -> RE: new game for experienced players (3/4/2009 11:01:05 AM)

hi folks,

we are full now, so lets start to negotiate rules and options.

my email is  polaroleatnexgodotde my suggestion is that everyone mails me his votes and we take the decision by majority votum. please also state if you like to have the max vps biddable expanded or using gap is desired.

following options are to be voted:

Winter Land Movement
Guard Commit 
Econ Manip
Leader Casuality
Privateers

i consider the rest to be fixed as above.
i also suggest to use the house rules as above. and like to have max 48h  time limit per turn or ai will be used policy unless someone announces his absence.
jimmer whats the bug you are talking about and what do you suggest as a work around?

bye
olaf

p.s. jagdwolf announced that he will be away from 7th march so it would be nice if we can get the votes and bidding done until then.

final player list(game full):

obsidiandragon
gmeyer
jagdwolf
polarole
crimson_gr1
jimmer
javajoe




polarole -> RE: new game for experienced players (3/4/2009 4:43:50 PM)

hi folks,

i am waiting for the votes to come in and made a yahoogroup fro filetransfer.
the game will be called "the mad butcher" and i am going to invite everyone into the yahoogroup who is sending me his votes.

bye
ole



GMeyer -> RE: new game for experienced players (3/4/2009 5:06:44 PM)

Do I understand your e-mail address to be "parole@nexgo.de?" Thanks. I have a Yahoo ID and password but am not on Yahoo and may need some insturction on how to find your site.



Jimmer -> RE: new game for experienced players (3/4/2009 5:11:11 PM)

jimmerseia at comcast dot net

Winter Land Movement no
Guard Commit yes
Econ Manip yes
Leader Casuality no
Privateers no

Maximum bid no. Which implies no GAP, either. I have a tool to evaluate bids, though.

I still object to house rule 5 (can't use minor forces against a non-declaring major power enemy), but I can live with it. 5a is OK.

-------------------------------

The problem I refer to is where someone declares war on a multi-district minor (only Denmark and Sweden are confirmed, though), the war does not include the other "half" of the country. However, it can be different for the controller and for the declarer. For example, in an AI game where I played France, Russia declares war on Sweden. Russia appears to be at war with Finland as well, and moves in and conquers it. However, as France, I'm not allowed to play any troops in Finland, or defend it in any way. It is NOT the second district of Sweden-Finland, from France's perspective.

Interestingly, war does not lapse between Russia and Sweden while he is conquering Sweden. This led me to believe that Finland really IS at war with Russia (as if the dropping of factors into Finland's capital weren't enough). So, I played as Russia. Sure enough, Russia sees both nations as being at war with Russia. Of course, conveniently enough for Russia, France or Great Britain (the two nations which got control the two times I tried it) seemed to do nothing to defend Finland.

Others have reported the same bug applies to Denmark-Norway. I tried this once as GB, and found I could not place troops in Norway's capital (as the attacker). So, it clearly wasn't at war with me.

It's a heavy-duty bug. In games which are already going, it's not a big deal (because these nations get conquered pretty early). But, in a new game, it's not going to work very well.



polarole -> RE: new game for experienced players (3/4/2009 5:11:35 PM)

hi,

yes, except the first part is like my username here, polarole. its just to prevent bots to get the adress easily from the board. yahoogroups are no problem and pretty much selfexplanatory you get invited once i have your email.

bye
ole



polarole -> RE: new game for experienced players (3/4/2009 6:30:30 PM)

hi jimmer,

i am planning to use the latest available version when we are about to start so most likely 1.05.05.
i have no idea how we handle this special bug. is there something like a workaround proposal?

bye
ole



Jimmer -> RE: new game for experienced players (3/4/2009 9:05:07 PM)

Well, we should discuss it. I suspect some kind of tradeoff will be required, and we might have to figure it out as it happens (it may not happen EVERY time to all players). We probably just need to watch it so we make sure nobody gains an advantage through it (like, a PP is gained for taking control and not lost when control is lost).



JavaJoe -> RE: new game for experienced players (3/5/2009 1:19:39 AM)

my email

sillvesttree AT yahoo DOT com



polarole -> RE: new game for experienced players (3/5/2009 1:04:55 PM)

hi folks,

i got 4 emails and 3 votes so far. so still input missing.

bye
olaf



obsidiandrag -> RE: new game for experienced players (3/5/2009 2:47:55 PM)

Actually I have found that although you can not directly set up Finland (click on finland then corps counters - as they do not have any) You CAN click on Sweeden and get the corps then set them up IN Finland - and you can garrison them too. I have also been able as France controlling vs Russia, set up depot in Finland with French leader assigned to keep Russia out for lapse of war (which worked).

So it can be worked around I assume Denmark also (but who would only want to take Norway??? ) I am more concerned with the conquering then trying to Free but only getting the one primary province (Naples/Sweeden/Denmark) and not the previoulsy conquered provences with them.

Hope this helped..




Jimmer -> RE: new game for experienced players (3/5/2009 3:24:42 PM)

Yeah, that helps OD. I'll try this tonight.

One thing though: The French leader is not used in such situations. He can be present, but if you watch the battle, he won't be used. The only way to use one is to be at war with Russia.

EXCEPTION: In the old EiA boardgame, where Bernadotte could become a Swedish leader, Bernadotte COULD be used in such a situation, assuming Sweden somehow managed to become neutral.



obsidiandrag -> RE: new game for experienced players (3/5/2009 7:05:06 PM)

SSSSSHHHHHH That blows the whole scare tactic...



Jimmer -> RE: new game for experienced players (3/5/2009 10:11:38 PM)

BWUAHAHAHAhahahaha!!



Jimmer -> RE: new game for experienced players (3/7/2009 9:22:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: polarole
...
final player list(game full):

obsidiandragon
gmeyer
jagdwolf
polarole
crimson_gr1
jimmer
javajoe


So, who has checked in to the group, and who are we waiting for?



JavaJoe -> RE: new game for experienced players (3/8/2009 4:58:57 PM)

So,

What's next?



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