What's the future of SPWAW? (Full Version)

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degen -> What's the future of SPWAW? (10/18/2000 3:39:00 AM)

You guys at Matrix are great for tweaking and fine-tuning SPWAW. With every version, the game keeps getting better. From all the comments in the posts, it is easy to see that all of us greatly appreciate your efforts. My question is when do you plan to finish SPWAW and move on to money projects? I had read a while back that Matrix would be cutting off development efforts on SPWAW, but it seems that those efforts are continuing. Particularly by naming a version "beta" it would seem likely that 1-2 more versions will be coming out. Don't take this as a criticism, as I love SPWAW, but I'm looking forward to your other projects like SPMW. I also want to be able to pay Matrix for its efforts. A free SPWAW is great, [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/eek.gif[/img] but I want Matrix to be around to make more great games.



Drake -> (10/18/2000 3:49:00 AM)

Really show how great the matrix staff is when we want them to move on to something that we can give them money for [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]



Paul Vebber -> (10/18/2000 4:05:00 AM)

More info on that will be available in the next few weeks. We will not be adding any more features to SP:WaW - we are trying to knock out the last couple bugs (whichare quite hard becasue they are not easily reproducible and seem to be system specific) We want you to pay us [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] We are working on it...



Windo von Paene -> (10/18/2000 4:14:00 AM)

Paul, ARE YOU BACK?!!! Things have been relatively quiet around these parts since you left. If so, please take a look at the posts on "Online OPfire timing bug". Much appreciated. (If you're not "back" disregard this message and deal with real life, we can wait...)



Greg McCarty -> (10/18/2000 4:29:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Vebber: More info on that will be available in the next few weeks. We want you to pay us [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] We are working on it...
Honest to God; If Matrix posted a box number and called it the mailing address of the Staff Lunch Fund I'd mail a check for $100.00 right now. Think I'm kidding? Try me. I'm enjoying the benefits of their work, and it has been worth at least that much to me in entertainment so far. I'm ready to reciprocate. Greg.



Paul Vebber -> (10/18/2000 4:39:00 AM)

Sorry - I'm not "back"... If I understand the problem - yes time the other guy spends thinking about an opire comes off of your time, there is no easy way around that. I keep Opfire set at 3 secs, and look askance at someone who ALWAYS takes the whole time to make his shots... If you have money burning a hole in your pocket Greg, send 20 of it to the WW2 Memorial foundation :-)



degen -> (10/18/2000 8:14:00 AM)

Paul-Thanks for the quick reply. I did not mean to drag you out of your time off. You deserve a break for all your your hard work!



Windo von Paene -> (10/18/2000 8:02:00 PM)

I didn't think you were back Paul, just hoping! Anyway, enjoy your time off. Although can you really consider it time off if you are posting to the boards? STAY AWAY. It just raises our hopes too much... [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]



Fabs -> (10/20/2000 1:02:00 AM)

I, too, would welcome the opportunity of sending you guys some money in exchange for all the fun I'm having out of your work. Will you be charging for SPMW? I am greatly looking forward to it, and if it will give me a first opportunity to give you guys some of my money, all the better for it, you amply deserve it. I was a little sad to read that as far as SPWAW there will be no more enhancements. The game is near perfect, but the terrain system could be improved in a number of ways, that would be useful in SPMW too. Have you definitely closed the door on any further enhancements, even long term? ------------------ Fabs [This message has been edited by Fabs (edited October 19, 2000).]



Huffy -> (10/20/2000 1:33:00 AM)

Hey....good idea about sending donations to the WW2 mem fund. My sons school has raised nearly $1000.00 for it. Huffy



Billy Yank -> (10/23/2000 9:21:00 PM)

Fabs, I think I read on the boards somewhere that SPMW is covered by the same agreement as SPW@W, so they can't charge for that either. As for new enhancements, Matrix has already stated that they're going to make a SP-like game from scratch. I think any more enhancements should go into the new game. ------------------ Billy Yank I don't define "my own" the way you want me to.



Fabs -> (10/23/2000 9:32:00 PM)

An SP-like game from scratch? Sounds great! I can't wait, especially if they beat the challenge of nearly two dimensional terrain! [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Any of you Matrix Games High Priests care to comment? [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] ------------------ Fabs



Rhone -> (10/24/2000 5:37:00 AM)

Oh great. I am in the Military and every year we are handed our CFC booklets to make donations. Well, I used to donate half to the Red Cross and half to the nature conservancy. Unfortunately, I am so turned off by Al Gore I'm ready to send a nuclear weapon up into the ozone! So no more Nature Conservancy. I ony got about 10 minutes to scan the hundreds of funds and I was specifically looking for the WWII memorial foundation. Maybe there isn't a foundation in the traditional sense of the word. In any event, I ended up donating it all to the Red Cross. I don't give blood (it's common) so I donate to the Red Cross to make up for that.



Windo von Paene -> (10/24/2000 8:06:00 PM)

Rhone I hate to drag this off-topic, but I just have to ask. What do Al Gore and the Nature Conservancy have to do with each other, and/or why would your "fed up"-ness with Al Gore have any impact on your desire to donate to the Nature Conservancy?



ARIS -> (10/25/2000 3:35:00 AM)

SPMW free or not, please do it before March, because after March I'll be playing SPMW in the Greek army...



U235 -> (10/25/2000 4:43:00 AM)

Aris, I'm with you, except I be deploying with the 3rd Fleet. That will be a long six month dry spell! Rhone, I agree with you, I think Gore would be a continuation for a US Military decline. The reason the USS Cole was refueling in Yemen is because all our oilers are sitting in mothballs or scrapped. Always the cheap way out. By the way my CFC contibution went to the NRA, I don't definatly do not want the govenment to have total control, punish the criminals not the citizens.



Skotty -> (10/25/2000 5:03:00 AM)

Whether there is a new SPWAW built from scratch for sale or future updates, I would like to see increased map terrain elevation resolution similar to that found in SP2WW2v3.



ARIS -> (10/25/2000 7:42:00 PM)

U-235, hope you have a nice time over there. I'll be 1,5 years in the Greek army, hopefully at the armoured forces. I agree with Skotty about increased elevations, and also escarpments etc. But please keep it 2D, 3D graphics would mess the gameplay a lot. If it is 3D,then make it simple. I would like to be able to spot my units with the eye, and not use any special feautures like "unit bases" or such stuff.



ncpanther -> (10/26/2000 12:52:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by U-235: Rhone, I agree with you, I think Gore would be a continuation for a US Military decline. The reason the USS Cole was refueling in Yemen is because all our oilers are sitting in mothballs or scrapped. Always the cheap way out. By the way my CFC contibution went to the NRA, I don't definatly do not want the govenment to have total control, punish the criminals not the citizens.[/B]
U-235 I totally agree with you on the gore thing and I too gave CFC to NRA! However, on the Cole I cant believe that we dont have enough tankers to fuel our ships so we have to use foriegn ports in hostile areas. Also I think SHIP Security had alot to do with the bombing. As I understand it there should have been sailors with binos and weapons on watch. Why didnt they see a boat approaching? just a thought. And back to topic, i would love to see a scratch SP like game. Matrix is the greatest gaming company in the world IMHO. ------------------ NC Airborne Sappers Lead the way!! SAPPERS ATTACK!!!!



U235 -> (10/26/2000 3:41:00 AM)

NCPanther, it's true ship's security was lax on the Cole, but that seems to be the case almost everywhere and the military seems to be reactionary. There was a time when ships rarely refueled at overseas ports, now the smaller amount of available oilers is making it a nessesity. Should the Cole have been more alert? Yes, but it is a trend thoughout the military. Today I drove to the ship and the gate gaurd just waived me on, barely looking at my cars decal. It could have been packed with weapons. It's kind of scarey. The base is at threat con alpha to boot. When the draw down came auxilary ships were among the first to go. You see alot over 21 years of Navy life, it ain't all good IMHO. Sorry for drifting off topic. With this forums intrest, SPWAW will continue long after it's last patch has been released.



Fabs -> (10/26/2000 9:18:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Skotty: Whether there is a new SPWAW built from scratch for sale or future updates, I would like to see increased map terrain elevation resolution similar to that found in SP2WW2v3.
You have my full support. I find that the terrain system limitations are the last remaining challenge to make the game near perfect. I must say that this sort of comment seems to be falling more and more on deaf ears. I must have made half a dozen postings in various threads in the past six months related to defects of the terrain system and introducing more elevation levels. I was slapped down a couple of times and never got an answer since. There seems to be little interest and some resistance to this, which is a pity. Problems with the ballistics at extreme angles are cited as the main difficulty. I have made the point in the past that there are other key elements of the simulation where a lot of latitude is freely accepted with regards to the gap between reality and the simulation. For example, villages (and even towns)are not normally crossed by 50 yard wide boulevards, and the distance between two hedgerows bordering an enclosed lane is not 50 yards. Walls and hedges offer protection only in relation to a certain direction from which the fire is coming in relation to the target (simulated more effectively by Squad Leader by putting walls, hedges etc. along hexsides). We accept these things, so why not some imperfection in ballistics in very hilly terrain, where the fighting should be mostly done by infantry anyway? For the sake of perfection in the ballistics model, we are asked to believe that throughout the war theaters there were never any terrain features that were more than 30 meters taller than the base terrain. I'm sure the Cassino map provided in version 4 must have taken many hours to work out, and have a lot of respect for the effort of the author. on the other hand, I will never use it for a battle. I have been to Cassino, and I just can't stretch my imagination that far. So many vital battles of WWII were fought over the posession of key hills. Anyway, I sure hope that if there is a project for a SPWAW replacement game being designed from scratch, all of this is taken into account at the concept stage. ------------------ Fabs



Skotty -> (10/27/2000 12:19:00 AM)

Glad to be finally getting some response in favor of the map elevation issue. I personally feel that this is a no brainer. With all the great work Matrix has done with the SP3 engine, porting it W98 from DOS, a very in depth ballistic model, new Victory Objective routines, this group obivously has the coding where-with-all to make better map resolutions. The current ver of the random map generator is IMHO simply horrible. User maps are much more easier to use now which is great, but user edited vic hexes randomly disappear in multiplayer games, and I have tested this issue A LOT. I know SP-Camo Workshop and guys like Andy Gailey have been working SP2WW2 for over 2 years now and didn't make to leap to W98, but IMHO their map codes are superior to SPWAW. This by no means a flame by any account, but when Matrix makes games for cash in the future or more updates, I hope they take in account something this obvious.



Paul Vebber -> (10/27/2000 12:36:00 AM)

A note from the road on this one...adding terrain elevations is not a matter of "not caring" but one of the time and effort it takes to "jury rig" the current system to do it. This is not something we are ignoring, just that if we are going to redo the terrain system from scratch, it might as well be in a game engine more suited to it! Its "easy" to simply "add more books under the cloth" like we used to do playing mini's but that doesn't really get at the "real" effects of topography-justs adds more "steps" to the plateaus...



Fabs -> (10/27/2000 3:23:00 AM)

Hence the reason for my rejoicing at the news that a brand new game engine that will do what SPWAW does, only better may be being worked on. I have some simpathy whit the argument that, within the current game engine, it would be very difficult to create the right effect. The Camo boys have tried, and having had a go I can't say that I am impressed. If SPWAW in its current format is as far as the road goes, then an imperfect solution to the terrain system weaknesses should IMO constitute the last effort before the game is considered complete. If there is to be a brand new project that will take the SPWAW concept within its basic elements (squad/vehicle based, low topographical scale, short turn time, tactical) beyond what is realizeable within the accepted limitations of the current game engine, then I am prepared to wait the time and pay the money to eventually enjoy the new experience. I may even be prepared to invest in it, within reason. While I am waiting, I can enjoy SPWAW within its limitations. ------------------ Fabs



Skotty -> (10/27/2000 4:13:00 AM)

Thanks Paul for the quick reply. I want you Matrix folks know how much I and I think most of the SP community appreciate your level of correspondence with us. We all benefit from it. If the engine can't support new terrain well, then it can't. I was just sharing my observations of how SPWAW and SPWW2v3 generate maps. In SPWW2v3, the random maps have more logical road nets and makes REALLY COOL stream and ravine features. Thanks, Skotty



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