PBEM with Advanced Economy (Full Version)

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balto -> PBEM with Advanced Economy (3/2/2009 5:11:41 PM)

I could not wait, so I gave in and bought the digital yesterday morning and I have read everything and watched all the tutorials.

I am a PBEM-only person and I knew before I bought CG:EE that I want Advanced Economy becasue I love that type of stuff.

As I am reading through the complexity of the Trade, Diplomacy, and the Development Advisor I was thinking how with a human opponent so much would be overlooked (trade routes..etc..) and ways of interpreting all this information that this game could really be amazing because there is very little chance anyway would understand all of this or grasp the complete inter-workings (just like in real life).., does this make sense? I know what I want to say, but I am unsure if I am explaining it correctly. Kind of like WiTP.., so much there, you sort of never really know what you are doing .., sort of.. which is great.

But then I realized that with the option to click on Trade Expert, Diplomacy Experts, Province Development Expert, Military Production Expert, .., all the 'coolness' gets flushed down the toilet with PBEM. I mean, because of this huge complexity, who in their right mind would not let the AI do all that if they knew their opponent was also using AI.

So the Advanced Economy is sort of wasted with these Experts. Can you imagine if in WiTP you clicked on all the bases and said "AI CREATE INVASION TASK FORCE to INVADE SAIPAN".., you know what I mean?

I was wondering if there could be an option that in PBEM, you can remove those experts? Because if not, you would be crazy to not use them if your opponent uses them - which significantly hurts the greatness of it.



Franck -> RE: PBEM with Advanced Economy (3/2/2009 5:27:00 PM)

Seriously, the in and out of advance economy aren't that hard to grasp ( I managed in less than 6 hours playing time...)

And on top of that, an AI is never as good in optimising stuff than a human who understand... Play a PBEM against me using all the AI ''expert'' and I'll have an edge over you!



balto -> RE: PBEM with Advanced Economy (3/2/2009 5:33:08 PM)

Hi Franck.

Thank you for your input.  Do you see a problem with being able to block AI experts? 



balto -> RE: PBEM with Advanced Economy (3/2/2009 5:35:17 PM)

Realize, you are playing the AI.  When playing a human and all sorts of unpredicatable stuff happens, the dynamics of the interrelated function of Diplomacy, Trade, and Development could be huge. 

And I am just asking that the option be available, I am not saying you are not correct in your post.



Franck -> RE: PBEM with Advanced Economy (3/2/2009 6:34:16 PM)

I see no problem with blocking the AI.

I also understand that it does get way more complicated with diplomacy and all...


But considering I'm trading with my most likely long term allies anyways...



Joram -> RE: PBEM with Advanced Economy (3/2/2009 7:12:56 PM)

Currently that would have to be a house rule.  It sounds reasonable but would have Eric chime in if something like that is implementable.



balto -> RE: PBEM with Advanced Economy (3/2/2009 7:28:48 PM)

House Rules.., arggghhh! 



Gil R. -> RE: PBEM with Advanced Economy (3/3/2009 4:02:44 AM)

A good (note emphasis) player will be more challenging than the AI. If your opponent wants to let the AI run part of the game for him, let him. He might still beat you, but the odds are more in your favor (unless you're a bad player!).



balto -> RE: PBEM with Advanced Economy (3/3/2009 11:44:06 PM)

Hi Gil.

I am not that bright, but I can tell you that for those of us that are not walking computers.., the Trade, Development, and Diplomacy as a whole is vastly complicated.  Vastly.  Remember, you can tweak these AIs to be productive, war mongers,.,   There is also an ECONOMY EXPERT and a military STRATEGIC and TACTICAL expert.  So in reality, there are many experts.,, Trade, Development for each province (dozens), Diplomacy, Economy, Strategic, and Tactical. 

Think of it like WiTP.  The challenge of the game should be to understand all the aspect of the game (which is kind of not possible, just like WiTP), so in effect, we all screw up on lots of places all the time.., which is cool.  Right now with Advanced, you click on all the experts, and you only have to focus on battle.., which defeats the whole reason for advanced play.

If you program COG:EE that in PBEM, these can all be blocked.., I will be your best friend.

So come on, PBEMers are already slighted by not having the ability to do Detailed Battles.., give us a break and give us the ability to BLOCK all experts.., pretty please (see reference above to me being your best friend).



Franck -> RE: PBEM with Advanced Economy (3/3/2009 11:54:05 PM)

Balto, why not sign up for our PBEM in opponent wanted?



morganbj -> RE: PBEM with Advanced Economy (3/4/2009 3:38:56 AM)

If y'all can wait a bit, I have an Advanced Economy guide in the works.  I need to get a few other loose ends cleard up with COGEE and then I'll get it finished.



balto -> RE: PBEM with Advanced Economy (3/4/2009 3:55:55 AM)

bjmorgan, I think I love you.    Get the big brains to have an option that allows blocking the AI Experts in PBEM, and I may marry you.

Hey, I am goofing around with Prussia in 1803 on Advanced Economy.  There are some weird things going on.  Warwsaw: no wool or cotton, but producing textiles.  There are many other strange ones, but that is the strangest.



Gil R. -> RE: PBEM with Advanced Economy (3/4/2009 4:05:13 AM)

PBEMers aren't being slighted by not having detailed combat in PBEM -- they're being spared! Can you imagine how long it would take to play COG:EE if battles had to be fought out turn by turn, usually with multiple battles on land and sea occurring that turn? You might get through just one PBEM game in a year.

As for the experts, remember that the tactical expert has no role in PBEM, since there are no detailed battles. The strategic expert would be a stupid thing to use, since what's the point to PBEM if you're not deciding where to send your units? So it's really just the diplomacy, trade and development advisors that should be your concern (in "Advanced Economy" PBEM games only), and my previous statement stands that a human player will be better than the AI.

Before we make as big a change as the one you're suggesting we'd want to get more feedback on whether this is something that really bothers a lot of people. I don't believe anyone ever raised this issue with the original COG.


quote:

ORIGINAL: balto

Hi Gil.

I am not that bright, but I can tell you that for those of us that are not walking computers.., the Trade, Development, and Diplomacy as a whole is vastly complicated.  Vastly.  Remember, you can tweak these AIs to be productive, war mongers,.,   There is also an ECONOMY EXPERT and a military STRATEGIC and TACTICAL expert.  So in reality, there are many experts.,, Trade, Development for each province (dozens), Diplomacy, Economy, Strategic, and Tactical. 

Think of it like WiTP.  The challenge of the game should be to understand all the aspect of the game (which is kind of not possible, just like WiTP), so in effect, we all screw up on lots of places all the time.., which is cool.  Right now with Advanced, you click on all the experts, and you only have to focus on battle.., which defeats the whole reason for advanced play.

If you program COG:EE that in PBEM, these can all be blocked.., I will be your best friend.

So come on, PBEMers are already slighted by not having the ability to do Detailed Battles.., give us a break and give us the ability to BLOCK all experts.., pretty please (see reference above to me being your best friend).




wworld7 -> RE: PBEM with Advanced Economy (3/4/2009 4:14:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: balto

Think of it like WiTP.  The challenge of the game should be to understand all the aspect of the game (which is kind of not possible, just like WiTP), so in effect, we all screw up on lots of places all the time.., which is cool.


What do you not understand in WITP? Sure it has some quirks, but once you learn them things fall into place. For WITP, while it might be nice to let the AI handle things, MUCH more often than not you will get better results making the choices yourself.

Since I assume this would be the same for the COG:EE I see no benefit to your suggestion for me. I have no problem if they decide to expend the resources to add this "option", I just think there may be better places than this, ones with a larger payoff to fix/change/correct, as it is the game has only been out for five days.

Note: I am waiting for the physical option before ordering COG:EE.



swetiger -> RE: PBEM with Advanced Economy (3/7/2009 4:40:25 PM)

Ooooh, Nice.. looking forward reading the guide. [:)]



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