Matrix Is Awesome for Freedom of Speech! (Full Version)

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barbarossa2 -> Matrix Is Awesome for Freedom of Speech! (3/10/2009 12:46:37 AM)

I posted another topic on watching out about about how we treat the incredible developers and games at Matrix when making comments. They really don't deserve some of the overly negative comments and how they have been worded.

I want to say that over the years I have been repeatedly amazed by Matrix because:

1. I am always amazed that they allow even the HARSHEST criticizm to stay up in its comments forum. It is not edited and I have never heard of anyone complaining that their comments were removed. This is not limited to comments about the games it publishes, but also the games and developers themselves.

2. Of course, in my opinion, Matrix would never sue anyone over criticism of one of its games.

In fact, based on my experience in the libel and slander arena, I can safely say that Matrix is a shining example of Freedom of Speech and the open exchange of ideas in a first class manner. In this respect everyone should do business like Matrix does :)

However, I feel the other post will help customers here deal with other companies who are not shining examples of freedom of speech*, which I have since learned to value above all other things.

THANK YOU MATRIX :) [&o][&o][&o][&o][&o]

*Please see my posting below where I indicate that I do understand there is no real "freedom of speech" on any company's Website--guaranteed by law at least :) Of course this concept deals with the flow of information to others in the open.







Sarge -> RE: Matrix Is Awesome for Freedom of Speech! (3/10/2009 12:56:12 AM)

Please ................[8|]

Freedom of Speech Title 42, Section 1983 of the US Civil Code
civil action for deprivation of rights


Conflict of Interest 18 U.S.C. 201-209, 216
laws contain provisions related to financial or asset disclosure, exploitation of one's official position and privileges


My suggestion is you retain someone that actually knows the law [;)]




barbarossa2 -> RE: Matrix Is Awesome for Freedom of Speech! (3/10/2009 1:04:32 AM)

Sarge,

Thanks for the tip! :)

Chris




JudgeDredd -> RE: Matrix Is Awesome for Freedom of Speech! (3/10/2009 8:27:52 AM)

I am really, really confused.com now. [&:]




sterckxe -> RE: Matrix Is Awesome for Freedom of Speech! (3/10/2009 8:41:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
I am really, really confused.com now. [&:]


Freedom of speech does not apply to what gets typed in a company forum. If Matrix were to remove comments or ban someone you can't go to court over it on the principle of "freedom of speech"

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx




barbarossa2 -> RE: Matrix Is Awesome for Freedom of Speech! (3/10/2009 8:53:46 AM)

Judge and Sterckxe,

haha... sure. Of course we can't claim we have a right to say anything in here, which is what has impressed me over and over again about Matrix. Of course, they don't have to allow ANYTHING to be said in here. Especially not some of the negative commentary which emerges at times. They COULD simply take it all down, ban you, and more. But I think they see it as being true that a company which allows for the free flowing exchange of ideas--even "flaming" can improve its products better than one which stiffles such debate (as the company I recently had my problems with does).

No, "Freedom of Speech" is not a right on a site like this. BUT, it is the principle which counts. However, you need to be aware of the fact that defamation laws are NOT nearly as forgiving as "posting policies" for companies with good relationships with their customers. Try speaking like this in public about doctors or hospitals and it will quickly get you in a court room. Believe me, I have read through about 40 cases dealing with defamation law in the USA and Europe now.

All of this secrecy and desire not to let people speak about it in free flowing forums like this one is perhaps one reason why the health care industry kills more people than it helps in my pure opinion*. They don't want to hear these things. But Matrix and its game companies also have their "livlihoods" on the line. Just like doctors and hospitals, but Matrix values giving its customers a say. They don't have to. Believe me. They should be lauded for the openness allowed here.

Sterckxe, I made my comments about a company and a politician on YouTube.

-barbarossa2 (by the way, a reference to the German Emperor, not the invasion of Russia)

PROVIDED TO COVER MY ASS:*In full-blown doctor's strikes lasting 3 months in Israel in 2000 and again in 2003, when the entire health care system went on strike, many sources in the media (including the British Medical Journal) reported that the first people to complain were the morgues. 20 percent fewer people died. Yes. Fewer. Only one hospital was shown to be helping its community. In my opinion, the scientific studies and principles which are developed in laboratories for use in the medical field probably work, but the problem then becomes translating this to effective use in the field under the tremendous pressure to make money and grow businesses. Corners are cut, little white lies are told, people who are less educated or the wrong race get singled out for the riskier procedures (in one study I saw, doctors peform the lowest numbers of back surgeries on lawyers and other doctors, in another, African Americans suffer from malpractice disproportionately), and then, often, people die. Of course, the health care industry does not want people to be reminded of these things. In another posting, Erik Rutkins indicated that at one time I mentioned I had problems with a product, then I said it was with a politician. This is because I had problems with the politician's health care "product" and with his understanding of health care (after I interviewed him and wrote up the results, a man who rehabbed some of America's greatest athletes called this notion of health care, "medieval"). He didn't like me saying that.

And that ends my discussion of the medical aspects of this because this is not a site about medicine. But I felt the example would help underscore some of the issues in defamation law which my fellow gamers here need to know about in their daily lives. Do NOT apply the kind of language and discussion you see in this forum as a template for your concerns about other products/companies/people, because you can and very possibly WILL be sued by people who do not hold the free exchange of ideas to be a good thing... people who are not as committed to getting feedback from their customers as Matrix is.




sterckxe -> RE: Matrix Is Awesome for Freedom of Speech! (3/10/2009 10:42:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: barbarossa2
Do NOT apply the kind of language and discussion you see in this forum as a template for your concerns about other products/companies/people, because you can and very possibly WILL be sued by people who do not hold the free exchange of ideas to be a good thing.


I'm a bit at a loss why you feel you need to post all of this in here.

You want a good example of an area of the 'Net where free speech is still possible and where stuff like the above would fit right in ? UseNet

Come and visit our merry band of wargamers with no moderators or commercial pressures :

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx




Joram -> RE: Matrix Is Awesome for Freedom of Speech! (3/10/2009 11:03:23 AM)

Agreed, this isn't really the place for your crusade.




JudgeDredd -> RE: Matrix Is Awesome for Freedom of Speech! (3/10/2009 11:44:51 AM)

I don't think he was on a crusade. more likely pissed off with what had happened to him and wanted to air his views on the matter whilst passing on a warning. [&o]




PunkReaper -> RE: Matrix Is Awesome for Freedom of Speech! (3/10/2009 11:55:22 AM)

Three threads... two locked by Erik..... where do you think this one is going? Message heard loud and clear!




barbarossa2 -> RE: Matrix Is Awesome for Freedom of Speech! (3/10/2009 12:07:20 PM)

Judge is right. :)

Punk Reaper, I have personally requested that they remove two of the other threads because there was no guidance on where to post this issue. This hasn't happened yet. I posted first in COG:EE after I was concerned that the product would get a fair shake while reading some comments that concerned me (even though I haven't purchased yet, I am a fan of their work and am considering buying soon), and then I posted to General Topics and wasn't able to remove my COG:EE posting as I would have liked to. THEN, the locking of the original post made it impossible for me to keep in the same posting to make my statement that Matrix is a great company and allows and even encourages the free exchange of ideas and criticism. Believe me, I would have liked to keep ALL of this in ONE posting. Funny though, that my thread was locked. On an issue which I designed to keep people commenting fairly on products by Matrix and others (I feel badly for companies which are claimed to be using "spyware" or have "bug ridden" software--they really don't have to deal with that...but they do, which is to be applauded).

Anyway, the posting was started because after all of my experience with this in the last year, I felt badly for companies like Matrix, which allow over the top criticism of products occassionally while other companies attempt to stifle criticism as soon as it rears its ugly head. My "crusade" is to help people understand what they can say and what they can't. Because I see possible libelous statements in here all the time. Not everyone will be as nice as Matrix is. In my opinion there is no better forum than the forum of a company which I feel strongly about and has treated comment fairly again and again and again.

I also felt like we don't give Matrix enough credit for what is allowed in these forums. So, I am done. Unless someone else thinks I am a moron for encouraging people to treat Matrix and its affiliated game companies fairly when commenting.

I am sorry if others in here haven't come to value a free ranging and totally open forum hosted by a company which is totally forgiving to (illegal) criticism as much as I have. Matrix rocks.




vonRocko -> RE: Matrix Is Awesome for Freedom of Speech! (3/10/2009 1:32:55 PM)

Let me exercise my free speech against politicians-Dear &%#@, You are a @#$%!! I hope you rot in ^%$#! all you *&^% can suck my #$%^, $%#@ #$@$,

And feel free to visit me and my friends,Smith and wesson!

p.s. I hope I got the spelling right!




wdboyd -> RE: Matrix Is Awesome for Freedom of Speech! (3/10/2009 1:45:38 PM)

Ah, obviously vonRocko is an enlightened human being with deep thought provoking insights.

Also, one can always tell when a politician is lying.... his lips will be moving. [;)]




PunkReaper -> RE: Matrix Is Awesome for Freedom of Speech! (3/10/2009 3:12:17 PM)

Barbarossa2 I for one don't think you are a moron, and I apologize if my post was interpreted that way. I agree that people chatting on a forum are mostly unaware of the law in this area and you are right to point this out. I was unaware of your posting problems. I agree that Matrix is a great site that tolerates criticism of its own products and even the discussion of others and I wish you luck with your legal problems.




Crimguy -> RE: Matrix Is Awesome for Freedom of Speech! (3/10/2009 4:52:14 PM)

I find Barbarossa's posts interesting, even if he might be a bit OCD. . . [;)]




Terminus -> RE: Matrix Is Awesome for Freedom of Speech! (3/10/2009 4:59:48 PM)

I still don't understand why some people persist in thinking that they have freedom of speech in here...[8|]




barbarossa2 -> RE: Matrix Is Awesome for Freedom of Speech! (3/10/2009 5:02:13 PM)

Crimguy.  Of COURSE I AM OCD!!!!!  It is why I play games that take 200 hours or more! (no.  Seriously, I do have a few OCD tendencies, which has advantages and disadvantages)  Though I have never been diagnosed as having this, I am very impressed with your "diagnosis." 

And Punk Reaper, thanks.  I got over it quickly.  And your follow-up note is a kind one.

Terminus, no, we don't have the RIGHT to do ANYTHING in here. Which is why it is amazing so much of what the people in here say and do is allowed.




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