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john g -> (5/18/2002 11:12:50 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pbear
[B]

I think the English hold the record for the most 'creative' solutions, the Flying Tank (could not get it to land upright all the time) for 'leaping' over tank traps. [/B][/QUOTE]

Not to mention Panjandrum, or the steam guns which were fitted to ships to fire hand grenades up in the air against attacking aircraft which worked like a giant paintball gun.
thanks, John.




AmmoSgt -> (5/18/2002 5:04:42 PM)

I'm not sure what what the offical name for these napalm armed bats was .. but the "BatBomb" was the nick name for the SWOD Mk13 GlideBomb ( SWOD stands for Special Weapon Ordnance Device).. I had the pleasure of refurbishing several SWOD Mk13 airframes and guidance packges during my aprenticeship as a weapons technician.
Mk13 was the 2000 lb Bomb version , I didn't get to work on any of the 1000 lb versions and I can't remember what their Mk designation was , MK12's I think. They were radar guided , sort of. they had a small radar in the nose that swept back and forth horizonally ( this replaced the pigeon that was the guidance system in the earliest version) the pigeon version relied on a pigeon that was trained to peck at the image of a ship ( peck on picture of a ship , get grain) the guidance system worked , on the pigeon version , by trying to keep the pecking in the center of the screen , off center pecks caused the control surfaces to change the direction of glide, to point the weapon at the ship, and center the ship in the small TV screen. The pigeon version actually flew better that the radar version. The radar version tended to fly with a side to side "waddle and swoop " as the control surfaces attempted to align themselves with the constant back and forth horizontal sweep of the radar . This effect had a benifit, as they were very hard to shoot down . The interface between the radar and the control surfaces came in two version , as with many wartime weapons , company and businesses that would never be involved with producing weapons in peace time , got contracts to make things they would never have considered making if it had not been for the war. In this case , the two companies involved were MIT , the university , and the Plumbers Union No XXX I forget the exact number. The airframe itself was plywood and I do not know the contractor. We did not use the WW2 era radars for the project I was on . The 2 Interface control packages were very different .. the MIT version had about 10,000 electrial contacts and could not be restored to a functioning condition , The Plumber's Union version had only 12 contacts and was peunatically operated and were very easy to restore to a functioning condition , ( go figure) . The first tests were done under the cover and guise of these being "Target Drones" and were dropped against US Navy ships with inert concrete warheads, the "waddle effect" prevented the AA gunners from shooting them down and the first two dropped actually hit the target ship and did some damage , but fortunately did not cause casualities. Subsequent tests were done against unarmed and unmaned hulks, The targets had to be metal and of ship sized dimesions due to the fact that the radar sweep had to have a constant contact ( ie have a target wide enough to fill a certain amount of the radar sweep to get a"lock on" ) . The ammount of sweep was adjustable , allowing some target size selection, but basically any metal mass large enough to fill the required percentage of sweep fill would be locked on to. 12 of each 2000 Lb version were tested and all 24 hit the target hulk. The only combat usage in WW2 was in the Pacific against a Japanese ancorage/ harbor ajacent to a captured British Oil Refinery ( I forget where) , while none were shot down , AA did cause several to lose lock and go into search mode ( unfortunately Oil Refinery's tend to be rather large metal masses ) the whole reason the weapons were used was so that the refinery would NOT be damaged , oh well, it was a good idea at the time.
In the early 60's ,18 of these weapons were brought out of moth balls refurbished and retrofited with what would become known as the Standard ARM Guidance package and were all sucsessfully dropped at China Lake , providing a proof of concept of the ARM Guidance System.




AbsntMndedProf -> (5/21/2002 4:00:30 AM)

PBear posted:

"The dogs had the same problem as the pigeons, the Bats actually worked burned down a town in the US (I know, it was a US weapon)."


Ah, there's a hot time in the old town tonight! :D :D

Eric Maietta




sven -> Re: Most Unusual Weapon/Weapon System of WW II? (5/21/2002 4:55:33 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AbsntMndedProf
[B]I recall reading in one of the Aberdeen Proving Ground's 'Tank Data' series about an MG designed for German AFVs with a curved barrel to allow it to fire around corners! They even had a picture of one, as I remember.

Eric Maietta [/B][/QUOTE]

Yup. The United States also had one for the M3 greasegun...




Stahlhelm -> M3 greasgun. (5/21/2002 3:34:59 PM)

The comment about the curved barrel for the greasegun reminded me of a story I once heard.
Grease guns were amongst the crew weapons originally issued to M1 Abrams crews. Why you would use such an old weapon I don't know but I guess personal weapons for tank crews are low on the Defence Departments procurement list.
The M3s were particularly unpopular because if you were doing your watch sitting in the turret hatches, the long magazine prevented you from depressing the gun enough to shoot at anyone close to the tank.




chief -> Bat Bombs (5/25/2002 8:16:34 AM)

Ammo Sgt: Your statements on the MK12 Bat Bomb are all on target. (no pun intended). I was a Bat operator in a Navy Patrol Squadron in the early 50's. We used them as anti-submarine weapons. The idea was to make radar contact on a surfaced (recharging) sub...hopefully the sub would not dive since we were not in visual sight. At approx 35 miles out and 10K ft we could launch and turn away from the intended target, giving them a false sense of security. The weapon was at that time guided by Radar to the target and was very accurate, a later model using a crude TV rcvr/transmitter was later utilized and also effective. They went out of service in the late 50's.




ZeroAntipop -> (5/25/2002 10:54:20 AM)

Grease gun. . .you mean they had guns that shot grease at people. Would not a M1 Carbine be much better?




V-man -> (5/25/2002 11:14:40 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ZeroAntipop
[B]Grease gun. . .you mean they had guns that shot grease at people. Would not a M1 Carbine be much better? [/B][/QUOTE]

The M-3 Submachinegun closely resembled an automotive tool for greasing machinery. It was nicknamed the "Grease Gun" for this.
It was a .45 caliber, magazine fed light automatic weapon.




AmmoSgt -> (5/25/2002 7:48:37 PM)

Chief actually they went out of service in 1967, LOL, thats when mine were dropped at China Lake . I know what you mean though , actual operational service and not as test beds LOL, The footnote in History that made this such a sweet thing for me , and since this is so close to memorial day , is my Dad was old time VP himself , check this link. http://www.navalair.org/flightlog/moreinfo.asp?UID=197 , An old Silver Eagle with a low number, shoulda seen his face when I told him what our test bed was. He flew private until he was in his late 70's Passed a couple of years back from bone cancer. He about did it all .. started in Tin Cans , as you see in his record DD-405 Rowan , Neutralty Patrol , convoys to Murmansk, and escorted Brits around the the Tip of Africa to the Far East then VP-54 BlackCats at Guadacanal.. switched to fighters F4U and F8F's for Korea, then Inteligence Recon in what most folks know as a DC-4 and then up flying P2V's out of Kodiak. Finished up flying the Naval version of the B-26 Invader .( Yes Virginia, the Navy had B-26 Invaders) I have sat in the cockpit.




kevsharr -> (5/25/2002 11:59:54 PM)

How about the Japanese "Flea"bomb,no they did'nt have explosives tied to their back's but were infected with either typhus or typhoid fever loaded into a bomb and dropped over cities I believe it was actually used over China.As an interesting aside the man in charge of the Japanese Bio-chemical research facility at Harbin in Manchuria [where not only the weapon above was developed but also where allied pow's were subjected to lethal testing of a wide variety of biological agent's]was being activly persued by the soviet's and the chinese for war crimes was granted asilum here in the U.S to help with our biochemical research,interesting....To you a hero is somekind of weird sandwich...Oddball




chief -> small world (5/26/2002 12:42:16 AM)

Ammo Sgt: Interesting reading on your Dad, I served with some of the Black Cat sailors, but what was interesting to me was the next page (after your Dads) in the Log...RW Hart was my Patrol Plane Cdr in WV's and my CO in VP28. It's a small small world. thanks Chief:D :) :cool:




AmmoSgt -> (5/26/2002 3:53:35 AM)

Chief 4.0 :)




Sardaukar -> (5/26/2002 4:13:17 AM)

Chief:

This is also bit off topic too :) But why US Navy have it's chevrons downwards and Army has upwards ?

Cheers,

M.S.




chief -> (5/26/2002 5:39:54 AM)

Sardaukar: The only answer I can give you is....since all our uniforms are/were based on the Royal Navy you will probabaly have to ask them....but since we use an Eagle I have to assume the designers decided he would look better with the chevrons below than over his head.....the Chiefs arch that goes over the Eagle is only about 125 years old before that we only had 1st class as the top pay grade. Sorry I don't have a better answer, other than a wise one about STUFF flowing downhill.....:D :o :cool:




RichardTheFirst -> Kamikaze weapons (5/27/2002 1:15:14 PM)

As the theme is unusual weapons, what about the variety of weapons used by the japanese as kamikaze... this used to fascinate me when I was much younger, don't know why.

Besides the zeros or other planes, they had kamikaze weapons for all tastes - air, land and sea. The ones I know are:

- human controled flying bombs dropped from bombers with limited range.

- the tank hunters - infantry soldiers with tank mines or explosives

- speed boats - very fast small boats loaded with explosives

and the most fantastic of all:

- submarines - piloted by a single man, kind like a crewed torpedo!




ZeroAntipop -> (5/28/2002 9:56:48 AM)

How about the nuke? At the time it was far out. . .




tracer -> (5/30/2002 3:46:08 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Possum
[B]What about

The Japanese remote Bombing balloon ( a balloon loaded with incndiary bombs with a very long fuse, and released 1000's of miles upwind of continental USA. Was at least credited with starting some forest fires in washington state in 1944)
[/B][/QUOTE]

I saw a program about this. The Japanese figured that causing massive forest fires in the heavily wooded northwest would disrupt transportation and communication, and that the risk/cost to them was negligible. After finding several of the devices intact and realizing the psycological impact their existence could cause, the US government made the entire issue top secret. The files only recently became declassified (mid 90's).




Larry Holt -> (5/30/2002 10:52:31 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chief
[B]Sardaukar: The only answer I can give you is....since all our uniforms are/were based on the Royal Navy you will probabaly have to ask them.......:D :o :cool: [/B][/QUOTE]Actually all the British stripes point downward so a better question is why do US NCO stripes point upwards?




Larry Holt -> (5/30/2002 11:00:48 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Larry Holt
[B]Actually all the British stripes point downward so a better question is why do US NCO stripes point upwards? [/B][/QUOTE]
To answer my own question look here: http://www.history.navy.mil/trivia/triv4-4a.htm




Redleg -> (5/31/2002 11:33:15 AM)

I saw a "Sworn to Secrecy" episode on the history channel about the bats.

The MP44 rifle had a shoot-around barrel with a periscope sight.

My candidate for strangest weapon: Sturmtiger with a very large mortar - appears to have a bore larger than 12". 15 of these "bad boys" were made.




Eduardo -> (5/31/2002 11:37:13 AM)

Bats go into the higgest part of a dark place . . . Since they were to be released above a city, they will go into the ceilings, inside the roof, crawling space above the ceiling, inside a window, etc.

Got it? A thousand houses on fire!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ardle
[B]

No, don't trouble yourself. But you have to admit it sounds utterly preposterous - I mean what was the rationale behind it? And how many bats would you need to carry enough napalm (or whatever) to make any kind of impact? And how do you train a bat?!!! [/B][/QUOTE]




Belisarius -> (5/31/2002 2:05:59 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Redleg
[B]
My candidate for strangest weapon: Sturmtiger with a very large mortar - appears to have a bore larger than 12". 15 of these "bad boys" were made. [/B][/QUOTE]

Err... isn't that the Sturmmörser Tiger you're talking about? 38cm rocket mortar :) Hey, we even use those in the game




stevemk1a -> (5/31/2002 3:09:15 PM)

It's a measure of the all emcompassing aspect of WWII that some of the weird ideas previously mentioned were tried... It amazes me how much war influences technology. I think WWII compressed about 40 years of tech advance into 5 years. Supersonic flight, radar, rockets, nuclear tech.... take your pick... for example Sydney Camm, who designed the Hurricane (first 300+mph British fighter) also started design on the Harrier, still in service today! All of the weird weapons of WWII required brave people to test them...all deserve honour, and some are weirder than others...(conspiracy, or foo fighter theories...).
The mystery persists to this day...! Odd is good!




AbsntMndedProf -> (6/1/2002 10:57:40 PM)

Belisarius posted:

"Err... isn't that the Sturmmörser Tiger you're talking about? 38cm rocket mortar Hey, we even use those in the game"

Wasn't the 38cm rocket mortar developed originally by the Kriegsmarine as an ASW weapon? (Another tidbit I recall reading in the 'Tank Data' series.)

Eric Maietta




AbsntMndedProf -> (6/1/2002 11:04:28 PM)

For info on the Sturmmorser see:

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/germany/sturmtiger.html

Eric Maietta




Belisarius -> (6/10/2002 1:02:38 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AbsntMndedProf
[B]
Wasn't the 38cm rocket mortar developed originally by the Kriegsmarine as an ASW weapon? (Another tidbit I recall reading in the 'Tank Data' series.)

Eric Maietta [/B][/QUOTE]


Why, yes it was indeed! :p :cool:




Kanon Fodder -> (6/10/2002 10:33:59 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AbsntMndedProf
[B]For info on the Sturmmorser see:

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/germany/sturmtiger.html

Eric Maietta [/B][/QUOTE]

Another great site added to "Favourites"
:D




Hades -> (6/25/2002 4:08:49 AM)

I finaly thought of an unusual weapon!!! I read somewhere that the Germans tried mounting a 81mm mortar on a BF-110 or JU-88 and firing mortar rounds at bombers. If I remember correctly i think it worked.




Eduardo -> (6/25/2002 5:26:55 AM)

It worked somewhat. The planes had to be at a certain distance, pitch and speed to score. Very difficult when bombers had fighter escort. Another problem. The planes lost airspeed because the "under the wings" mortars where not exactly aerodynamic.




Belisarius -> (7/6/2002 9:32:36 PM)

Hmm.. the Germans employed some other imaginative aircraft guns as well, didn't they? Like the vertical firing 40mm cannon mounted in the back of the fuselage? I think it was radar- or magnetic triggered, and when the fighter passed directly underneath a bomber, the guns would set off *blamblamblam* and shoot out the belly of the victim.




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