Game Representation of the USMC in WWII (Full Version)

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KG Erwin -> Game Representation of the USMC in WWII (4/7/2009 5:45:30 PM)

Other than SPWaW, what games give good sims of the USMC's legendary battles in the Pacific? There was the Squad Battles game, but as far as I'm concerned, SPWaW is it. We have scenarios dealing with Iwo Jima, Peleliu & Tarawa, plus the Watchtower Mega and Bruce Hodgman's separate Guadalcanal mini-campaign. Strangely, no scenarios exist for the penultimate Pacific campaign: Okinawa.

I had hoped for a definitive "With the Old Breed" MegaCampaign, covering the 1st MarDiv from Guadalcanal to Okinawa, but that was not to be. The closest I can come to this is the SPWaW Long Campaign.

Personal note: with Bill Wilder now being retired, the USMC's Pacific War seems to have been neglected in recent years. I discount FPS-type games , so don't bother bringing them up. Sure, on the strategic level, there's WitP, but on the tactical level, there's little to be had.

Why is this? Is the vast Pacific War still so little understood or appreciated? Granted, most land battles were slugfests, with little room for manuever, and no dramatic sweeping movements by fleets of AFVs. Perhaps that's it. It was primarily an infantry war, with tanks in a supporting role.



Cheeks -> RE: Game Representation of the USMC in WWII (4/7/2009 6:22:37 PM)

As you've mentioned, Squad Battles: The Proud & the Few covers the Corps during the WW2 Pacific campaign.

I have played Steel Panthers from its début (any nearly every other program), but this Squad Battles game is by far-and-wide the best tactical game available (not to mention historically accurate).



PunkReaper -> RE: Game Representation of the USMC in WWII (4/7/2009 6:32:54 PM)

Doesn't John Tiller's Campaign Series cover the Pacific War?



Hertston -> RE: Game Representation of the USMC in WWII (4/7/2009 6:46:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper
Doesn't John Tiller's Campaign Series cover the Pacific War?


Yup, what was previously 'Rising Sun'. Probably the best of the three.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Game Representation of the USMC in WWII (4/7/2009 7:12:37 PM)

Yes, definitely give JTCS a try for Pacific tactical battles.



elcidce -> RE: Game Representation of the USMC in WWII (4/8/2009 3:20:43 PM)

The Conquest of the Aegean engine will be applied to Guadalcanal eventually when they are through with The Bulge, Normandy, and the East Front. The SW Pacific will be the focus of the first title. The Central Pacific will be the one after that. As the other campaigns are completed more features are added that would make the better suited to the Pacific campaign.

There is a team set up to do the research for it. I have suggested that they move into the Korean war after the Pacific is completed. This still leaves Burma and India to cover as well. I know this is a while off but there are many others that understand the need for these areas to be covered.



JudgeDredd -> RE: Game Representation of the USMC in WWII (4/8/2009 4:47:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: elcidce

The Conquest of the Aegean engine will be applied to Guadalcanal eventually when they are through with The Bulge, Normandy, and the East Front. The SW Pacific will be the focus of the first title. The Central Pacific will be the one after that. As the other campaigns are completed more features are added that would make the better suited to the Pacific campaign.

There is a team set up to do the research for it. I have suggested that they move into the Korean war after the Pacific is completed. This still leaves Burma and India to cover as well. I know this is a while off but there are many others that understand the need for these areas to be covered.

Yes but unfortunately at 2+ years dev time, the pacific is looking at least 6 years away! Besides, I would like to see them do (and thought they were going to do) a North Africa set first?



Warfare1 -> RE: Game Representation of the USMC in WWII (4/8/2009 8:49:18 PM)

The game Pacific General covers what you are looking for. All the game's campaign scenarios have been re-done, which include a campaign for both the US as well as Japan. There are great island battles as well as naval action.

Go here for the game:
http://thearmorypacgenforum.yuku.com/forums/3/t/Pacific-General.html

and here for lots of campaigns, scenarios:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sgt_stryker/armory.html




SS Hauptsturmfuhrer -> RE: Game Representation of the USMC in WWII (4/9/2009 11:06:29 AM)

The Pacific theatre definitely does deserve more attention.  There were a lot of good battles on those islands.  I recently read about Peleliu and they sure had a good shoot'em up there.   I wanna actually go visit the island now even though it is hard to get to and no one really goes there except extreme military fans.



elcidce -> RE: Game Representation of the USMC in WWII (4/9/2009 3:43:07 PM)

Does anyone think that there would be interest in creating some campaigns for the battles in Burma, India or New Guinea?

The British and Japanese Indian campaigns would be someting new and interesting I think.



Yogi the Great -> RE: Game Representation of the USMC in WWII (4/9/2009 6:16:40 PM)

Speaking of HPS Squad battles series.  Cheaper though at Navalwafare.org

As the follow-up to the popular Proud & Few" Squad Battlesgame, Pacific War continues in the Pacific theater but adds all the changes in the Squad Battles system since "Proud & Few" was released, to include the extremely popular Fast AI Processing.



Mike Parker -> RE: Game Representation of the USMC in WWII (4/9/2009 8:21:45 PM)

I have thought for awhile about how to say this without it being misunderstood.

There are not alot of good WWII games featuring the USMC because basically the most intriguing portion of land combat in WWII was in Europe.  And the second most was the Japanese and Chinese.  Neither of which had much to do with the USMC.  The US pacific war is much more about the naval fighting.  I do not mean to downplay the significance or the sacrifice the USMC made, they paid in dear blood for many of the pacific bases we needed.  But in general what makes for a good wargame is not the island land campaigns but the naval campaigns.

I wish I could remember the names, but I played a couple of wargames (boardgames) one set in Korea and one in Vietnam both were excellent games that had alot of involvement with Marine formations.

For strategy based games its hard to find something that highlights the USMC unfortunately.



Yogi the Great -> RE: Game Representation of the USMC in WWII (4/10/2009 1:55:31 PM)

I do understand that the campaigns in Europe may make for a "better wargame"

However as far as sacrifice a case could be made that those fighting in the paccific had the harder job.  What our soldiers went through there can only be described as hell on earth.  My father was there (Army) came home with a Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Malaria and nightmares to last a lifetime.

I had the Avalon Hill boardgame of Guadalcanal.  Not a bad game.  I agree little in wargames available but the squad based games aren't bad.



Greybriar -> RE: Game Representation of the USMC in WWII (4/10/2009 3:54:22 PM)

At the risk of starting something like "My dad can beat up your dad," I beg to differ with you, Yogi. My father fought in the European theatre and saw action in North Africa, Sicily, Italy, and France before being captured in the Luxembourg area. He, too, was wounded--three times. His younger brother was killed during the Battle of the Bulge about the same time my father was captured. Although dad didn't catch malaria, I honestly don't know what all he went through as he wouldn't talk about it.

So I suggest we just say that our fighting men in both the European and Pacific theatres went through hell, shall we?



SS Hauptsturmfuhrer -> RE: Game Representation of the USMC in WWII (4/10/2009 4:41:31 PM)

There has hardly been a war where soldiers didn't go through hell.  Even in the Falklands, generally considered a cakewalk, the British almost froze to death after tabbing all day and night, and had to attack over open terrain against a more numerous enemy entrenched upon rocky hills.

I shall cap this discussion with a famous quote....

"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier."- Napoleon Bonaparte (15 August 1769 – 5 May 1821)
Oddly, the source of this well-used quote was the Vancouver Sun.




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