RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War

RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (Full Version)

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Zorachus99 -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (4/18/2009 8:24:33 PM)
I have less than fondness for 3rd Reich. Not after a genius calculation by the UK allowed them to invade Netherlands, exploit off the invasion, Perform a Flip-Flop, attack an empty hex, and exploit to Berlin. I doubt anyone can rationalize how the Brits conquered Berlin without the Germans moving a single unit. That's an invasion and exploitation of nearly 500 miles without a single response from the defender. [:-]

willycube -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (4/18/2009 9:03:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zorachus99 I have less than fondness for 3rd Reich. Not after a genius calculation by the UK allowed them to invade Netherlands, exploit off the invasion, Perform a Flip-Flop, attack an empty hex, and exploit to Berlin. I doubt anyone can rationalize how the Brits conquered Berlin without the Germans moving a single unit. That's an invasion and exploitation of nearly 500 miles without a single response from the defender. [:-] I read you loud and clear Zorachus, it was unbelievable that that could happen what a waste of money I gave to Talon Soft, its a shame that Matrix didnt get a hold of it years ago I bet it would have been an awsome game. Willy

Bibs -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (4/19/2009 7:31:30 AM)
Willy I'm still confused, Talonsoft never released 3rd Reich, at least according to their list. They released Fall of the Reich which was an expansion to the East Front Tactical Series. Avalon Hill released a computer version of 3rd Reich. You still have the game you are talking about? I'd like to see a box cover scan if you can arrange it. Thx

willycube -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (4/19/2009 4:05:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bibs Willy I'm still confused, Talonsoft never released 3rd Reich, at least according to their list. They released Fall of the Reich which was an expansion to the East Front Tactical Series. Avalon Hill released a computer version of 3rd Reich. You still have the game you are talking about? I'd like to see a box cover scan if you canarrange it. Thx Hey Bibs you know I might be the one confused not you, I have or had not sure, a box with Avalons Hills name on it of computer 3rd Reich that I know but I remember complaining about it to the owner of talon soft [forgot his name] about the horrible AI, now maybe Talon soft took over the title from Avalon Hill along with other games and never wanted to acknowledge it belonged to them. I played the game for about two months and then removed it from my computer because the AI was bad. And maybe they never took it over, my mind is hazy its called old age, thanks for correcting me. Willy

Mad Russian -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (4/19/2009 7:19:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willycube quote: ORIGINAL: Bibs Willy I'm still confused, Talonsoft never released 3rd Reich, at least according to their list. They released Fall of the Reich which was an expansion to the East Front Tactical Series. Avalon Hill released a computer version of 3rd Reich. You still have the game you are talking about? I'd like to see a box cover scan if you canarrange it. Thx Hey Bibs you know I might be the one confused not you, I have or had not sure, a box with Avalons Hills name on it of computer 3rd Reich that I know but I remember complaing about it to the owner of talon soft [forgot his name] about the horrible AI, now maybe Talon soft took over the title from Avalon Hill along with other games and never wanted to acknowledge it belonged to them. I played the game for about two months and then removed it from my computer because the AI was bad. And maybe they never took it over, my mind is hazy its called old age, thanks for correcting me. Willy Jim Rose was the founder of Talonsoft Games. Good Hunting. MR

Mike Parker -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (4/20/2009 2:11:26 PM)
I don't think anybody but AH made a computer 3rd Reich. I could be wrong but I don't think I am. Its possible somebody took over AH's 3rd reich but I doubt it, the AI was stale and mechanical, and while I liked computer 3rd reich it was a game I think that would appeal to only the truly hard core AH gamers. I am almost positive your thinking of some other game Willy cube, can you take a screenshot of this game and post here? I think the old 3R hands would know almost immediatly if its an adaptation of AH's game.

willycube -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (4/20/2009 3:37:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mike Parker I don't think anybody but AH made a computer 3rd Reich. I could be wrong but I don't think I am. Its possible somebody took over AH's 3rd reich but I doubt it, the AI was stale and mechanical, and while I liked computer 3rd reich it was a game I think that would appeal to only the truly hard core AH gamers. I am almost positive your thinking of some other game Willy cube, can you take a screenshot of this game and post here? I think the old 3R hands would know almost immediatly if its an adaptation of AH's game. Sorry I dont Mike, I removed the game many years ago but I will look for the box it came in, I believe your right it was an Avalon Hill game only, but I do remember talking to Jim Rose of Talon Soft about it, when I complained about the game[not sure who I talked to] the person I guess from Avalon Hill told me oh well it will help you learn the board game better nice HUH! Willy

Mike Parker -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (4/20/2009 8:11:48 PM)
Ahhhhh I can SURE see someone telling you computer 3R could help you learn the board game better. The AI was pretty poor, but you could get a decent game by handicapping your side. And it had hotseat (if I remember) which was huge, because 3R taking up a whole table is not always possible and playing a game straight through was pretty hard.

willycube -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (4/21/2009 1:24:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mike Parker Ahhhhh I can SURE see someone telling you computer 3R could help you learn the board game better. The AI was pretty poor, but you could get a decent game by handicapping your side. And it had hotseat (if I remember) which was huge, because 3R taking up a whole table is not always possible and playing a game straight through was pretty hard. Your dead right on that one Mike, you know Mike I haven't heard one comment on Squad leader or advanced Squad leader, I think [not sure] but someone was going to put it on a computer, do you remember that or am I pipe dreaming, I think it too would have been an awsome undertaking like WIF has been. Willy

Mad Russian -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (4/21/2009 2:38:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willycube quote: ORIGINAL: Mike Parker Ahhhhh I can SURE see someone telling you computer 3R could help you learn the board game better. The AI was pretty poor, but you could get a decent game by handicapping your side. And it had hotseat (if I remember) which was huge, because 3R taking up a whole table is not always possible and playing a game straight through was pretty hard. Your dead right on that one Mike, you know Mike I haven't heard one comment on Squad leader or advanced Squad leader, I think [not sure] but someone was going to put it on a computer, do you remember that or am I pipe dreaming, I think it too would have been an awsome undertaking like WIF has been. Willy SL/ASL has been tried several times and done well at least twice. You are so late the best version is slowly dying because of hardware issues. They were both light years better than the 3R conversion to computer and still both available and playable if you have an XP computer. Good Hunting. MR

willycube -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (4/21/2009 3:01:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mad Russian quote: ORIGINAL: willycube quote: ORIGINAL: Mike Parker Ahhhhh I can SURE see someone telling you computer 3R could help you learn the board game better. The AI was pretty poor, but you could get a decent game by handicapping your side. And it had hotseat (if I remember) which was huge, because 3R taking up a whole table is not always possible and playing a game straight through was pretty hard. Your dead right on that one Mike, you know Mike I haven't heard one comment on Squad leader or advanced Squad leader, I think [not sure] but someone was going to put it on a computer, do you remember that or am I pipe dreaming, I think it too would have been an awsome undertaking like WIF has been. Willy SL/ASL has been tried several times and done well at least twice. You are so late the best version is slowly dying because of hardware issues. They were both light years better than the 3R conversion to computer and still both available and playable if you have an XP computer. Good Hunting. MR Hey Mad Russian, was it under the name of Squad Leader and a pure transfer from the board game to the computer? What hardware issues? What name did it go under and who was the publisher? Thanks in advance. Willy

Mad Russian -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (4/21/2009 4:40:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willycube Hey Mad Russian, was it under the name of Squad Leader and a pure transfer from the board game to the computer? What hardware issues? What name did it go under and who was the publisher? Thanks in advance. Willy A little off subject topic here aren't we Willy? [:-] This is much further off subject than the dice posts you don't like, even though those are a part of MWiF. If you want to discuss SL/ASL then PM or email me. I'm easy to find. Good Hunting. MR

willycube -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (4/21/2009 5:45:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mad Russian quote: ORIGINAL: willycube Hey Mad Russian, was it under the name of Squad Leader and a pure transfer from the board game to the computer? What hardware issues? What name did it go under and who was the publisher? Thanks in advance. Willy A little off subject topic here aren't we Willy? [:-] This is much further off subject than the dice posts you don't like, even though those are a part of MWiF. If you want to discuss SL/ASL then PM or email me. I'm easy to find. Good Hunting. MR Sounds like your dissing me Russian, but thats all right, I was very interested in your observation of what the WIF board game was like to play, I liked your answers and wanted to hear more from you about the game, I was disappointed when the thread was changed, I am not against the die thread at all, I just wanted to hear more from you about the board game, if you go back over the posts I think I was very courteous to every one including you, I was hoping against hope to stay on track and I will never say anything about changing posts again, as for ASL no problem not that important, if I have offended you in some way I appoligize I am just trying to understand this game. Willy

composer99 -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (4/21/2009 6:29:49 PM)
You guys should see some of the bad off-topics that went on in other threads. And not worry so much about threads going off now. They'll come back on eventually, usually after a period of quiescence. Any good conversation rambles from subject to subject. Only on forum discussion threads are we apparently supposed to start brand new conversations instead. [:)]

willycube -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (4/22/2009 12:24:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: composer99 You guys should see some of the bad off-topics that went on in other threads. And not worry so much about threads going off now. They'll come back on eventually, usually after a period of quiescence. Any good conversation rambles from subject to subject. Only on forum discussion threads are we apparently supposed to start brand new conversations instead. [:)] Thanks composer I handled myself poorly in my reply post Im usually very courteous to everyone and I respect everyones opinion. Willy

Mad Russian -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (4/22/2009 4:33:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willycube Sounds like your dissing me Russian, but thats all right, I was a bit....just giving you back a bit of your own medicine. And more importantly to show you how easy it is to take a thread in a completely different direction that what was intended. quote: I was very interested in your observation of what the WIF board game was like to play, I liked your answers and wanted to hear more from you about the game, I was disappointed when the thread was changed, I am not against the die thread at all, I just wanted to hear more from you about the board game, if you go back over the posts I think I was very courteous to every one including you, Yes, you did fine. quote: I was hoping against hope to stay on track and I will never say anything about changing posts again, as for ASL no problem not that important, if I have offended you in some way I appoligize I am just trying to understand this game. Willy ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That was not the intent of my comment to you. It's good to bring players attention back at times to where threads have managed to go. About offending me in any way, never happened. None meant and certainly none taken. I'm good to go. In this case, I don't think it's right to discuss other game companies products that are still being sold here on the Matrix forums. If you want to talk about those then we can do that in a PM. WiF will be the one of the games you remember for the rest of your life once you play it. IMO, it's that good. Good Hunting. MR

welk -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (11/5/2009 1:21:01 PM)
For those who are waiting for WIF PC and want to play with 3r PC during the waiting time : you can get the game and 1.38 patch here + complete manuels + a little soft (3r gold) that allows to modify the game http://www.specialistsilencers.com/3r.htm Dos box is needed to use it. A very great game, and I hope that WIF PC will be a good game too. I never played with WIF boardgame (juste 3r boardgame) but I will buy WIF PC when it will be ready

winky51 -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (12/11/2009 1:38:23 PM)
A3R/RS plays like chess, easier rules to learn, tactical mistakes are costly, strategic ones are harder to mess up, larger scale WIF plays like blackjack, hard rules to learn but they flow, tactical mistakes are minor, strategic mistakes costly and easy to mess up on, smaller scale ETO/PTO plays like craps, medium rules to learn but doesnt flow (too many special rules), strategic and tactical mistakes are even in importance and either can make or break a game, smaller scale. --- I like A3R's simplicity, I like WIF's game flow, I like the steps of ETO/PTO. WIF is still the better of the 3 IMO.

JonBrave -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (12/11/2009 9:35:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: winky51 A3R/RS plays like chess, easier rules to learn, ... WIF plays like blackjack, hard rules to learn ... Chess has easier rules to learn than blackjack which has harder ones? [&:]

bo -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (12/13/2009 10:02:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: welk For those who are waiting for WIF PC and want to play with 3r PC during the waiting time : you can get the game and 1.38 patch here + complete manuels + a little soft (3r gold) that allows to modify the game http://www.specialistsilencers.com/3r.htm Dos box is needed to use it. A very great game, and I hope that WIF PC will be a good game too. I never played with WIF boardgame (juste 3r boardgame) but I will buy WIF PC when it will be ready I am a little confused here are we talking about computer 3rd Reich or something else? If we are talking about computer 3rd Reidh the one I removed one month after I was ripped off with the worst AI ever made for a game it was a horrible attempt to do the board game and an insult to the industry. Do you mean that 3rd Reich? Bo

yesman68 -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (12/14/2009 4:18:48 AM)
He is talking about the Avalon Hill Third Reich PC game. And yes, the AI is not very challenging although I don't know if I would describe it as the worst AI ever. Try playing it on a level other than Novice. quote: ORIGINAL: bo quote: ORIGINAL: welk For those who are waiting for WIF PC and want to play with 3r PC during the waiting time : you can get the game and 1.38 patch here + complete manuels + a little soft (3r gold) that allows to modify the game http://www.specialistsilencers.com/3r.htm Dos box is needed to use it. A very great game, and I hope that WIF PC will be a good game too. I never played with WIF boardgame (juste 3r boardgame) but I will buy WIF PC when it will be ready I am a little confused here are we talking about computer 3rd Reich or something else? If we are talking about computer 3rd Reidh the one I removed one month after I was ripped off with the worst AI ever made for a game it was a horrible attempt to do the board game and an insult to the industry. Do you mean that 3rd Reich? Bo

winky51 -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (12/14/2009 4:32:56 AM)
How it plays and the learning curve are two completely different things. A3R/RS = Chess because the dice rolls are minor and movement and positioning is key WIF = Blackjack because there is lots of randomness and things can go one way one turn and turn around the next when you double your bet. ETO/PTO = Craps because you roll a F$*@ of a lot of dice over and over trying to hit your #. "I fly my bomber, I intercept at Hex A, I counter intercept at hex B, I counter counter intercept at Hex -B before you hit my bombar, oh yea I triple counter intercept your counter counter intercept at hex -B before you counter counter my intercept." And the fleet battles are looooooooong omg.

bo -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (12/14/2009 3:26:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: welk For those who are waiting for WIF PC and want to play with 3r PC during the waiting time : you can get the game and 1.38 patch here + complete manuels + a little soft (3r gold) that allows to modify the game http://www.specialistsilencers.com/3r.htm Dos box is needed to use it. A very great game, and I hope that WIF PC will be a good game too. I never played with WIF boardgame (juste 3r boardgame) but I will buy WIF PC when it will be ready I would like to thank you Welk for the information on 3rd Reich I have downloaded and it plays really well but I have forgotten most of the rules even though the computer does not allow you to make a mistake, I make enough on my own. Bo

welk -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (12/14/2009 3:28:24 PM)
Ye, it's 3R PC AVALON HILL Game. The AI is not very good but you can use the game with hard level AND (the most important !) to make modifications with a little soft named 3RGold : you can modify some important things like : Grow rate, BRP base, awailable BRP, inf, air and naval counters types for each country, etc... during the game : so, in a human vs human hot set game, you can use 3r PC as a board game with "what if" played by physical roll : all modifications are then made with 3RGold in the saved files of game : very funny. Now, I am learning the rules of WIF, to be ready when the PC matrix game will be awailable. I have to say : very heavy monster game...[:D] but I like that sort of games. One question for the WIF staff, please : I am modder, and will the players be able to make graph modifications ?

lparkh -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (12/15/2009 3:55:38 AM)
There is a 3R mod for Strategic Command II which looked pretty thorough. The AI would likely be better....

Froonp -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (12/15/2009 6:42:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: winky51 How it plays and the learning curve are two completely different things. A3R/RS = Chess because the dice rolls are minor and movement and positioning is key WIF = Blackjack because there is lots of randomness and things can go one way one turn and turn around the next when you double your bet. ETO/PTO = Craps because you roll a F$*@ of a lot of dice over and over trying to hit your #. "I fly my bomber, I intercept at Hex A, I counter intercept at hex B, I counter counter intercept at Hex -B before you hit my bombar, oh yea I triple counter intercept your counter counter intercept at hex -B before you counter counter my intercept." And the fleet battles are looooooooong omg. Maybe you played WiF FE so long ago that you only remember luck. People often only remember bad luck, but rarely bad decisions that would have had needed a lot of luck to succeed but didn't.

winky51 -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (12/16/2009 6:01:59 PM)
Most WIF games I played a shift in win % can usually be attributed to 1-2 summer turns either ending early or some weirdo weather pattern. It didnt say it determines the game, it just has a serious impact. And for some weird reason it doesnt even out. Like if a game looks as if the axis are going to win if they continue along their path 70% because they are crushing Russia (BAM 1 end of turn June, BAM 1 end of turn July) now it drops to 50% because the allies passed. Guess the argument can be made is that if the allies were any good they wouldnt need to pass. Ive also seen the endless summer turn in Russia where POOF there goes the game. Ive seen in 1944 the USA fleet absolutely destroyed by the Japs or just the opposite in 1942. Ive seen a german player pretty much never fail to roll a 1 on convoy searches for 2 years straight with their suns. ive seen a german player never roll above a 12 in barbarosa for the 1st 2 years... actually this was the last game my buddy played (I wasnt in it) and he is the best player we got. Its a shift not an absolute. I have had 1 in 5 games where the shift wasnt significant and the luck was even.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (12/17/2009 2:26:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: winky51 Most WIF games I played a shift in win % can usually be attributed to 1-2 summer turns either ending early or some weirdo weather pattern. It didnt say it determines the game, it just has a serious impact. And for some weird reason it doesnt even out. Like if a game looks as if the axis are going to win if they continue along their path 70% because they are crushing Russia (BAM 1 end of turn June, BAM 1 end of turn July) now it drops to 50% because the allies passed. Guess the argument can be made is that if the allies were any good they wouldnt need to pass. Ive also seen the endless summer turn in Russia where POOF there goes the game. Ive seen in 1944 the USA fleet absolutely destroyed by the Japs or just the opposite in 1942. Ive seen a german player pretty much never fail to roll a 1 on convoy searches for 2 years straight with their suns. ive seen a german player never roll above a 12 in barbarosa for the 1st 2 years... actually this was the last game my buddy played (I wasnt in it) and he is the best player we got. Its a shift not an absolute. I have had 1 in 5 games where the shift wasnt significant and the luck was even. To some degree, I agree. There are critical points in just about every game. And if the dice go one way or the other, then that has a significant effect. But MWIF offers so many opportunities for the players to affect the outcome by good or poor play, that the dice have less effect than the players' skills (in my opinion). Note that I am not saying that the dice even out in the long run. Rather, the difference in the skill levels of the players determines the outcome far more often than the luck of the dice.

Zorachus99 -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (12/17/2009 2:44:17 AM)
Some of the best council is, "Don't get a 1-10 split" during naval combat. The advantage is so great, it's nearly always a mistake to ignore. AI hint... if you can kill a TRS in gauranteed surface combat, it's nearly always worth it. Might be a possiblity to query. CV's have good value as well if the result is an unavoidable 'X' result. Usually you get this in combination of chart shifts and spending 3 suprize points to choose a target.

paulderynck -> RE: Advanced Third Reich/ World at War (12/17/2009 6:34:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: winky51 Most WIF games I played a shift in win % can usually be attributed to 1-2 summer turns either ending early or some weirdo weather pattern. It didnt say it determines the game, it just has a serious impact. And for some weird reason it doesnt even out. Like if a game looks as if the axis are going to win if they continue along their path 70% because they are crushing Russia (BAM 1 end of turn June, BAM 1 end of turn July) now it drops to 50% because the allies passed. Guess the argument can be made is that if the allies were any good they wouldnt need to pass. Ive also seen the endless summer turn in Russia where POOF there goes the game. Ive seen in 1944 the USA fleet absolutely destroyed by the Japs or just the opposite in 1942. Ive seen a german player pretty much never fail to roll a 1 on convoy searches for 2 years straight with their suns. ive seen a german player never roll above a 12 in barbarosa for the 1st 2 years... actually this was the last game my buddy played (I wasnt in it) and he is the best player we got. Its a shift not an absolute. I have had 1 in 5 games where the shift wasnt significant and the luck was even. It's funny how often people remember the bad low probability rolls they had to endure and forget the good ones they enjoyed. You need my WIF Die Roller and Luck Tracker Visual Basic program which tabulates all the rolls and keeps track of their probabilities and records them by roll, session and game for each player. Then at the end of the game you'll know if you really have the right to bitch.

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