Routine Convoys always returning to Truk! (Full Version)

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Hartmann -> Routine Convoys always returning to Truk! (5/23/2002 1:34:47 AM)

After sailing a few hexes out of Truk, they always go back. There is never enemy activity.

Most strangely, this even happens if I have set them on "do not retire"!

Btw. not only the routine convoys in the strict sense show this strange behavior, also the CS:Rabaul convoys etc; in fact, any convoy under computer control. The only workaround I have for now is to put them under human control, but it is a chore to monitor this all the time.

Any suggestions?

Hartmann

PS: some, but not all of these convoys have PCs in them.



Hartmann -> (5/23/2002 7:17:46 AM)

Umm .... *bump*.... ;)

Edit: to make clear why this is so important: I actually not even *once* succeeded in having a computer controlled convoy going from Truk to somewhere else. One time, I tried to leave them alone to see whether they eventually will make it. I had to stop the experiment and reset them to human control when I got very short on supplies and fuel, though.

Hartmann



Joel Billings -> (5/23/2002 8:30:24 AM)

A CS mission set to Do not Retire should not turn around. A computer controlled transport group that has not been given a destination has to decide for itself that a base needs resupply. My understanding is that once it sails, it will continue on if set for do not retire, but will turn around if enemy carriers are prowling if set to retirements allowed. Unless this was broken very late in development (and not caught by testers), it had been working. I used to use the CS missions all the time, although I didn't use standard routine convoy very much because it wouldn't tend to send the supplies to bases as soon as I wanted them to.



Hartmann -> (5/23/2002 10:11:47 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joel Billings
[B]A CS mission set to Do not Retire should not turn around. A computer controlled transport group that has not been given a destination has to decide for itself that a base needs resupply. My understanding is that once it sails, it will continue on if set for do not retire, but will turn around if enemy carriers are prowling if set to retirements allowed. Unless this was broken very late in development (and not caught by testers), it had been working. SNIP [/B][/QUOTE]

Well, I canīt but report my own experiences ... and these computer controlled convoys *do* turn around even when set to "do not retire" with me. It works from Shortland to Buin/Buka without problems, though.

Is there maybe some condition which overrides the "do not retire" setting, and which could apply in my case? There were definitely no enemy carriers around. OTOH, some of my own carriers were there on transfer quite often. Could it be that they get misidentified?

Hartmann



Hartmann -> (5/23/2002 12:55:25 PM)

Maybe I solved that (itīs still theory, I yet have to try it out). The manual says that
only one routine convoy can go at a time - I tried to set up *much* more than that. Probably the others turn around when a new one is set? This also would at least partially explain what happened when I left them alone - once a convoy decides to return, it is set to "retirement allowed" automatically with all consequences of that.


Hartmann



Rex Bellator -> I see this also (5/23/2002 7:38:08 PM)

Just to confirm that Mr Hartmann is not alone. In the Operation MO scenario I had non-retiring CS convoys set up consisting of TK ships & escorts to run desperately needed fuel into Rabaul from Truk. The convoy would move for a few hexes and then I'd always get the 'Routine Convoy # Returning to Truk' message.

I'm not sure about the one CS at a time theory, as I had multiple CS Barge convoys running out of Shortland into the Guadalcanal area and they worked fine.

Like you I ended up setting the Truk convoys to Human control which became a bit time consuming.



Erik Rutins -> We'll check into this... (5/23/2002 10:11:10 PM)

Have you tried this with longer range escorts as well (i.e. something more than the shortest range PCs and DDs)? Certainly, if this is a bug it's a new one and one that slipped in at the last minute. I'm wondering if something is happening where the escorts think they're running out of endurance and trigger a retirement for the entire convoy?

If you have some time, please try those same routine and CS convoys with the following arrangements:

1. No escorts, just long range APs, AKs and TKs.
2. Only long-range escorts (longer-range DDs or APDs)

Regards,

- Erik



Hartmann -> Re: We'll check into this... (5/24/2002 12:43:50 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Erik Rutins
[B]SNIP I'm wondering if something is happening where the escorts think they're running out of endurance and trigger a retirement for the entire convoy?SNIP
[/B][/QUOTE]

In the meantime, I was wondering that, too.

At the next possible opportunity, I will try to run a single cc convoy without escorts from Truk.

Hartmann



Hartmann -> Re: I see this also (5/24/2002 12:45:05 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rex Bellator
[B]Just to confirm that Mr Hartmann is not alone. SNIP [/B][/QUOTE]

I'm relieved to hear that ... I already began feeling like a total idiot. :)

Hartmann



Supervisor -> (5/24/2002 12:54:01 AM)

I've had it happen to a single tanker (no escorts) running from Truk to Rabaul. It only got about a day out of Truk when it was reported as "retiring".

Once it had gotten back to Truk, I went in, set it to "Do Not Retire" and reset to computer control. Since then, it's been running normally and hasn't "retired" on me.

This was also in the "MO" scenario.



Sonny -> (5/24/2002 2:45:46 AM)

Haven't had any trouble at all with this but then I have not been playing the Japanese. Maybe Truk is too far away from teir destination since the Rabaul to Buin one worked.:)



Capitaine -> RTFM (5/24/2002 3:44:09 AM)

On page 52-53 of the manual, it says this:
quote:

Transport missions that have their home base set to either Truk, Noumea or Brisbane and set to computer control are considered to be "routine convoys" which will attempt to load supplies and deliver them to bases they judge need supplies...
It goes on to say that in such cases:
quote:

If their Patrol/Retreat status is set to Retirement Allowed, they will not deliver supplies to bases they consider in dangerous territory unless there are a lot of friendly fighters at the base.
So, among other things, these babies won't go where you want them IF there's a chance they can take a hit. Just change the "home base" setting to, say, Rabaul, and you should have better performance.

I tried this scheme with my Allied transports (which were acting skittish coming out of Noumea) and I changed their "home base" to Luganville and they went where they were told, but acted a bit more cautious under computer control... HTH



Hartmann -> (5/24/2002 3:48:24 AM)

Rowlf's results are interesting, but I want to point out that they are not contradicting the other observations. He got one TF without escorts working from Truk while "do not retire" was set. It may be that the effects of "do not retire" are overridden by PCs wrongly considered "short on fuel", or if you set up a second convoy to the same base while the first one is still on its way. Anyway, it seems that we at least get a general consensus on the aspect that "retirement allowed" is reacting much too touchy for those Truk convoys.

Hartmann

Edit, Capitaine: you can't solve the problem by setting the home base to Rabaul because the routine convoys have to start from Truk for the Japanese, according to the manual. (Except if normal transports fall under the "barge hub" clause, too, but I think this only goes for barges. And also, they then would not commute between Truk and Rabaul in any case). Furthermore, there's no friendly base with more fighters than Rabaul, so if the convoys are too shy to go even there, then something has to be adjusted. You see, I read TFM and still am confused. :)



1089 -> So I should have posted my bugs here! (5/24/2002 6:17:25 AM)

Hi--

I posted this bug a couple days ago, but stupidly, I posted it to the Problems and Bugs section which was set up, instead of to the main forum. The CS:"Destination" convoys from Truk go out a few hexes and then report they are going back, but actually just sit there. I can set up a CS:Lunga convoy from Shortland, and that works just fine, but the ones from Truk just stop a few hexes out, until I put them under computer control.

I have other bugs listed up there, as well, but I will post them here in the future, since they are ignored up there.

kp



Capitaine -> (5/24/2002 8:51:23 AM)

Hartmann, try changing the home base of the transports to other than Truk and see if it doesn't make a difference. Truly, although I haven't played the Japs on this point, I have solved the U.S. problem in this way.



Erik Rutins -> Replies... (5/24/2002 10:06:39 AM)

1089,

Check the Bug forum. I responded earlier tonight to all seven of your points.

Regards,

- Erik



Rex Bellator -> Did a little testing (5/24/2002 3:24:37 PM)

I had time to do just a little testing last night, and you can rule the Escort theory out. They return regardless of what type of escort (if any) is with the CS TF.

I racked my brain trying to see a common denominator between the returning CS TFs but haven't spotted it yet. I altered them between retire/do not retire, and tried sending them to different bases but they still kept coming back after 1 days sailing.

All the returning CS TFs included TKs, and all the CS TFs which had some troops on board did not return. That's all I've seen for now, but will have more time at the weekend to do a more exhaustive test.



Hartmann -> (5/24/2002 4:17:31 PM)

I now managed to get one convoy to Rabaul and one to Lae. I gave them destroyers as escorts. But I had to set them on CS:Rabaul (CS:Lae) AND on "do not retire", AND I made sure no second convoy was set at any time.
The AI is a bit too narrowminded with this, Iīd say. :)

Hartmann



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