Toss Supply for 1.05 (Full Version)

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osiris_slith -> Toss Supply for 1.05 (5/1/2009 6:01:24 PM)

Hi All

I think its time to rethink supply in this game and toss it out entirely.

The 2nd thing that should go are the command ranges of the HQ trucks.

A 2km supply/command range for a battalion unit is completely inadequate. Consider that a Russian tank brigade might be strung out over a 10-12 KM distance or more with all its supporting units a 15 hex command range for a Brigade truck is too small.

Finally from designing scenarios its clear the HQ trucks do not move especially when playing the AI so the AI is constantly out of supply. And of course the AI units for most part wont move beyond the the supply range of the Battalion HQ trucks etc. This makes designing LCGS a pain because because larger maps are out.

I have finally nailed down why the AI units move back and forth between 2 hexes to no end. The units are doing supply checks when they are out of range.

The solution I found was to replace all the Battalion/Brigade/Regiment HQ trucks with Corp HQ trucks and all Corp HQ trucks with Army HQ Trucks and the AI plays completely differently and quite well!

Osiris







1925frank -> RE: Toss Supply for 1.05 (5/1/2009 6:06:16 PM)

Cool!  Nice tip for scenario design.  Thanks, Osiris.



Jason Petho -> RE: Toss Supply for 1.05 (5/1/2009 6:15:31 PM)

Add 100 as the base level for supply for both countries and don't use the Command and Control Option.

Problem solved.

Jason Petho



umbro -> RE: Toss Supply for 1.05 (5/1/2009 7:12:02 PM)

A couple of points:

1) As a scenario designer you can model what you desire by setting ammo levels to 100% and recommending players not use the Command and Control option.
2) The Command Range of an HQ is not a cliff edge, beyond which a unit is completely OOS, rather it is a probability curve based on the units distance from its parent HQ. Furthermore OOS does not really mean out of supply, it simply means reduced combat effectiveness. Surely you do not suggest that a soviet tank battalion spread over 15km should have the same combat effectiveness as one operating over its recommended attack frontage (about 1km)
3) The AI needs some work to fix issues that you raise, however, it does make sense to move closer to a parent HQ if you are OOS.

umbro



osiris_slith -> RE: Toss Supply for 1.05 (5/2/2009 6:03:12 AM)

Hi Umbro

You are right of course and the supply system works well for h2h however LCGs are HvAI and it does less well especially on offense..
I do have to disagree with you on the edge of cliff thing. That works well if your a human player and you know what to do and when. Trying to get the AI to attack in a LCG
that does not work. The units may venture outside the Battalion HQ range say by 2-4 hexes but they wont go much further than that and even on a small map (24x24) i have to put the brigade HQ 4-hexes into the map just to cover the necessary objectives since AI units get very skittish once they enter the 12-15 extreme range of their HQ.
I would say the effective command range of a Brigade HQ trucks is around 10 hexes and not 15. 
 
That being said I have a very cool idea on how to make supply more realistic

1: It wouldnt hurt to boost the range of the HQ trucks at each level say by 4-8 hexes
2: Resupply should be set at 4 hexes
3: Penalties for being away from your HQ should be measured in time away. For example if units are away from Battalion HQ outside the 4 hex range for 6+ turns than units will suffer reduced combat effectiveness. A unit should not suffer reduced combat effectiveness because its far away from supply..it should suffer reduced combat effectiveness because its been away for a set period of time

4: By moving your units closer to HQ or visa versa you would in effect be performing a resupply mission for your units.

Of course someone is still going to have to figure out why the HQ units wont move with their units would go a long long long long way towards making the AI more effective. The AI plays well when in supply range but cant do a thing or fight effectively if its units are constantly fighting at 50% effectiveness especially on larger maps which limits LCG designs which I have now figured out was the major problem in my first LCG project..I would just like these constraints to be less constraining.

Rene



countblue -> RE: Toss Supply for 1.05 (5/2/2009 4:32:19 PM)

quote:

add 100 as the base level for supply for both countries and don't use the


How about adding 100 as the base level for supply for the AI side only?
And then for a proper level (50-80%) for the human player side.

WouldŽnt that result in a tough to beat AI?
I have to try that instantly.

thanx
CB




umbro -> RE: Toss Supply for 1.05 (5/2/2009 7:49:51 PM)

Osiris:

What you describe for LCGs and HvAI are real issues, but I wonder if there is not a solution that addresses those issues without impacting the H2H game? As you point out the best fix would be to get the AI to move its HQs in support of its units.

As a short term solution would it be feasible to add extra HQ units to your formations?

umbro



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