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Grumble -> (9/16/2000 5:57:00 AM)

I recall that in periodic surveys of the eras most gamers were interested in, WW1 was in the top four or so. As a gamer/historian and European battlefield tourguide, yep I definitely fork over some Dollars to acquire a sophisicated grand strategic WW1 game. I believe if you want grand tactical or tactical WW1 you could maybe acquire a copy of SSI's Tanks! or adapt SPWAW: other posters have suggested some ways to do this. Having said that, one of the things that has killed commercial wargaming is the apparent exclusivity, okay "snottiness" of the hobby. For a company to survive it must appeal to the "casual" wargames market out there. This market is usually folks who've come over from action games; unlikely they would have an interest in WW1. The bro's at Matrix could tell us how many copies would have to be sold to turn a profit; I'm afraid it would take more than all of us to make it worthwhile.



sapperland -> (9/16/2000 6:31:00 AM)

I am glad that this thread is getting attention. I think if all the good old board gamers of old (others like me [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] which would play a WWI game and add to that the new blood that would like to try their hand at the first great war and I bet you would have enough buyers to make the game a winner. I feel that the 4X type games have been done to death covering future space empires or historical empires. I think that the gamers that like 4X games as well as the gonards would be the people to put out the cash for a grand strategic WWI game. The players that find fun in playing action games would not be big buyers of WWI or any other pure war game of any era. The best edge that a WWI game would have in the market is no competition for buyers that might show an interest. [This message has been edited by sapperland (edited September 15, 2000).]



waynef -> (9/16/2000 7:19:00 PM)

WW1... Strategic - employ the Wars of Napolean (Matrix Games)engine to this time period. Strategy on many levels (diplomacy etc). Tactical - Age of Rifles - Get Norm Kroger to work with Matrix on creating AoR2! AoR2 could cover 1850-1920. Most of the data base is already present from AoR. Just some thoughts [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]



troopie -> (9/16/2000 11:46:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by waynef: WW1... Strategic - employ the Wars of Napolean (Matrix Games)engine to this time period. Strategy on many levels (diplomacy etc). Tactical - Age of Rifles - Get Norm Kroger to work with Matrix on creating AoR2! AoR2 could cover 1850-1920. Most of the data base is already present from AoR. Just some thoughts [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
I would love to see an AOR2! You can do WW1 battles in AOR1, but there is no provision for indirect fire, or armoured vehicles. Could Matrix possibly sign Norm Koger to develop AOR2. If so, I want to be among the first to place an order. troopie ------------------ Pamwe Chete



CFeicht -> (9/18/2000 7:24:00 AM)

I concur fully. Age of Rifles was a very well-done game and highly flexible. With a facelift like the one Steel Panthers received, AOR should be a really fantastic game. I always wondered what AOR would look like in 800x600 or 1024x768.



GulFalco -> (9/23/2000 1:29:00 AM)

It sure would be a waste for those pretty maps from WoN to go to waste, now wouldn't it. ------------------ Men are cheap, but women can never be payed for. Napoleon



Erik Rutins -> (9/23/2000 2:47:00 AM)

I also would love to do a WWI game, but it doesn't seem likely in the immediate future. If things go well, of course, the possibilities expand greatly. In the meantime, for those of you wanting a WWI grand-strategy fix, have you tried the (board) wargame Paths of Glory? A really great and fun simulation of WWI, IMHO. It's about a year old now, I believe and can be ordered from GMT Games (www.gmtgames.com). Regards, - Erik



Philippe R -> (9/25/2000 4:29:00 AM)

My first post ever on a discussion forum, so i will try not to be too boring. The full strategic WW1 board game exists, it is called "La Grande Guerre" and was published last year by a French company: Azure Wish Editions. This game covers the entire war from August 1914 until 1919 or the breakdown of all the nations of one side.It has: - 1840 counters, 9 turns/year. - 4 or 5 different warplans for the initial phase of Austria-Hungary, France, Germany and Russia. -Different rules covering the transition to the trenches. -Technological Research on gas, airplanes, tactics, tanks and many more. -A lot of events including Mata Hari, the sinking of Lusitania or the Zimmermann telegram. -An extensive coverage of diplomatic options including the effects of Blocus and submarine warfare on the Neutrals. -All the military leaders of the war: from Samsonov to Admiral Hipper, each coming with 4 different factors. -Political options regarding the national will to wage war or the stability of the parliament with possible occurence of strikes, mutiny or revolution. -The tuning of the war footage for industry -The military phase is very interactive and I never found myself idle even on the Western front. All in all, I find it a great game which would maybe need minor adjustments. I think that "The gamers" has just started to sell the games from Azure wish on their site (with I hope rules in English). So what is my point: A previous wargame by Azure Wish called "Europa Universalis" which covers Europe and the rest of the world from 1492 to 1792 has just been converted to a computer version. The address is www.europa-universalis.com. And by the way they are looking for an U.S. publisher (somebody interested ?). I don't see why if it could work for this one it wouldn't work for "La Grande Guerre". Maybe, You ,the Matrix Team, could have a look at this game and if you find it interesting and adaptable to a computer version, then, who knows.



Repo Man -> (9/25/2000 4:42:00 AM)

I was going to start a new thread, but my message seemed to be a good follow up to the previous message. With the loss of WON and the lack of any other grand strategy napoleonic game in the works, perhaps a few thoughts are in order. Both WWI and WWII grand strategy games have been mentioned here before, and I think either one could fill the role slated for WON. When I look for a grand strategy, my emphasis is on grand. The more minor neutrals, the better, the longer the game time, the better. The more pre-war posturing, the better. The more diplomacy, the better. With scant few exceptions, most WWI/WWII strategic games start at the beginning of the war, and last until it ends. While this is perhaps a logical place to begin and end, wargames of the Napolonic period are not limited to one war for the simple reason that there were many wars covering that period. I know that is a significant factor which initially attracted me to the Napoleonic time period. The closest I have seen to something similar in the WWII period is the WiF/DoD combination. I don’t know of any WWI era game which has similar features, although I do recall an old AH game focusing on the late colonial era which ended upon the commencement of the Great War. If Matrix is considering a grand strategy game of either of these time periods, I would suggest making the start date in 1890 for a WWI and 1933-36 for a WWII game. Of the two, I think the former offers a wealth of information and terrific gaming possibilities. You have the naval arms race, the shifting alliances, Germany’s attempt to catch up in the race for colonies. There were several “minor” wars during this period, all of which are fertile ground for one hell of a game. A pre-WWII game offers less options, but does offer a wealth of opportunity for variant strategies. For example, its far too late to build up the German Navy in 1939, but 1936 offers some hope, especially if the war doesn’t start until 1942 as originally planned by the Kriegsmarine.



VictorH -> (9/25/2000 4:56:00 AM)

Hi, You should post these ideas on the "Matix's Surviving WON" topic. The folks from Matrix are monitoring that topic for such ideas and there are a number of us on that site trying to organize a project.



peterbt -> (9/27/2000 9:11:00 PM)

I would love to see a strategic WWI game. This much neglected period would be perfect for a WoN style game.



sapperland -> (10/2/2000 2:05:00 AM)

Does anyone know if any other company has even tried WWI? Even way back in the DOS age? Does anyone know if some game company has a current one in the works? I get the feeling that Matrix has a full plate right now.



Grok -> (10/2/2000 12:40:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by sapperland: Does anyone know if any other company has even tried WWI? Even way back in the DOS age? Does anyone know if some game company has a current one in the works? I get the feeling that Matrix has a full plate right now.
I don't know of any sapperland...but that doesn't mean that some small company somewhere in the past hasn't made one. ------------------ understanding requires patience Grok



silentsurfer -> (10/16/2000 9:45:00 PM)

I would love to give a go at the spwaw oobs to be able to handle the WWI aspects. I know I have been searching high and low for a WW1 pc game and the only one I found was from Talon soft the TOAOW(?) package had a bonus in it that covered WWI, I'm not even going to get into how much this sucked. Maybe someday someone will let me tinker with the oobs and see what I can do. Surfer



Owl -> (10/17/2000 4:30:00 AM)

One more time - is no one interested in a WW 1 naval game?! I envision a strategic level where you set patrols, send bombardments, etc and a tactical game where you actually deal with contact when it is made between ships/fleets. The world war 2 "what ifs" pale by comparison to what might have been in world war 1! You could have intelligence, Submarine, zeppelin and aircraft recon - many possibilities. I guess the primary attraction to this forum is SPWaW which means most are ground pounders. Give me haze gray and underway any time - particularly in WW 1! ------------------ (.) (.) ...V...



troopie -> (10/17/2000 6:14:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by silentsurfer: I would love to give a go at the spwaw oobs to be able to handle the WWI aspects. I know I have been searching high and low for a WW1 pc game and the only one I found was from Talon soft the TOAOW(?) package had a bonus in it that covered WWI, I'm not even going to get into how much this sucked. Maybe someday someone will let me tinker with the oobs and see what I can do. Surfer
Go to the SPWW2 site and look for WW1Spobs. That might to be a good place to start. A problem of doing WW1 in SPWAW is the calendar will not accept dates earlier than 1/1/1930. I haven't tried SPWAW WW1 oobs because I don't know how to 1: edit .exe files and 2: edit .shp files. troopie (Who would love to see a SPWAW WW1 OOB) ------------------ Pamwe Chete



sapperland -> (10/17/2000 6:17:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Owl: One more time - is no one interested in a WW 1 naval game?! I envision a strategic level where you set patrols, send bombardments, etc and a tactical game where you actually deal with contact when it is made between ships/fleets. The world war 2 "what ifs" pale by comparison to what might have been in world war 1! You could have intelligence, Submarine, zeppelin and aircraft recon - many possibilities. I guess the primary attraction to this forum is SPWaW which means most are ground pounders. Give me haze gray and underway any time - particularly in WW 1!
I would like a WWI Navy game also. But, I want a Grand Strategic WWI more. I dont know if a tactical level ground game of WWI would offer enough for players to buy as a stand alone game. The questions this thread is asking: Who wants to see a Strategic WWI stand alone game with control over production, dipolmacy, supply, tech, spying, ground, air and navy movement covering Europe, Africa, Russia and the Middle East? What would you want to see in the game? ie start and end dates, what ifs , specific options, level of player control, player turns done in sequence or simultaneous, etc.



talon -> (11/1/2000 5:07:00 AM)

Yes I would also buy a WW1 area game.Naval and grand strategie would be fun . Despite the games mentioned above on covering WW1 I think you should consider playing Iperialism from SSI .It not really a wargame but it has production control and diplomacy in it.It only has not enough units but the historical scenarios at least ofer you a game with minor states and diplomacy and units of the time. But this is no alternative to a real game covering WW1. I would also consider playing a War in Russia like game on WW 1



fdevassy -> (11/3/2000 12:08:00 AM)

I would love to play a WW1 game. I think this is one of the most ignored areas of wargaming. Granted the trench warfare is a turn off to some people i still think WW1 gaming would be interesting



Gnagnus -> (11/3/2000 3:12:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Owl: One more time - is no one interested in a WW 1 naval game?! I envision a strategic level where you set patrols, send bombardments, etc and a tactical game where you actually deal with contact when it is made between ships/fleets!
Do you refer to a computer port of Great War at Sea by Avalanche? I'd buy it in a moment,don't care price!



Ballacraine -> (11/9/2000 11:48:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Owl: One more time - is no one interested in a WW 1 naval game?! I envision a strategic level where you set patrols, send bombardments, etc and a tactical game where you actually deal with contact when it is made between ships/fleets. The world war 2 "what ifs" pale by comparison to what might have been in world war 1! You could have intelligence, Submarine, zeppelin and aircraft recon - many possibilities. I guess the primary attraction to this forum is SPWaW which means most are ground pounders. Give me haze gray and underway any time - particularly in WW 1!



Ballacraine -> (11/10/2000 12:41:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Owl: One more time - is no one interested in a WW 1 naval game?! I envision a strategic level where you set patrols, send bombardments, etc and a tactical game where you actually deal with contact when it is made between ships/fleets. The world war 2 "what ifs" pale by comparison to what might have been in world war 1! You could have intelligence, Submarine, zeppelin and aircraft recon - many possibilities. I guess the primary attraction to this forum is SPWaW which means most are ground pounders. Give me haze gray and underway any time - particularly in WW 1!
Sorry about failed post. I forgot my password & my reply got deleted. Yes, you can count me for a vote. I have spent many happy hours with the old Atari ST playing Turcan's Dreadnoughts. I have been looking unsucessfully for a PC copy of this for years. I also had the Bismarck expansion pack .... Which was nice! Whilst the graphics were nothing to get excited about the playability was excellent. I can still remember the tension during the firing phases!! Jutland was awesome even with scaled down fleets!!! Replayability was very good. The old "Maybe if I try this?" kept on recurring. Wandering off topic here for a while, if you will bear with me ..This seems to me to be an aspect of computer wargames that has got lost in recent times, with strategy games tending to get ever more complex as hardware & software resources improve exponentially. It appears it is the norm for weeks of dedicated study of manuals that fill a fan-file & an apprenticeship before a decent performance can be turned in! I think it is prefrable to keep the game fairly accessible. More people will be hooked if you can first hold their attention with playability & increased virtual reality. Use the improved resources to improve the graphics,animation & sound. Make the game more immersive. OK, I agree that there have to be strategy elements to prolong the game life / replayability; but remember the engineering acronym KISS. (Keep It Simple,Stupid) [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] These elements can be gradually introduced over a few scenarios, forming a kind of tutorial. Once the tyro has a taste for the game added complexities to increase the replayability hook can be gradually introduced. Difficulty levels should be gradually inclined ..not vertical. So back on topic my preference is for a primarily tactical level game with strategic elements. As a final aside, one of my abiding satisfying wargaming memories is from the Bismarck scenario of Dreadnoughts. Reversing history against the odds. Sinking the pocket battlship Bismarck with the pride of the British Royal Navy, the fatally-flawed battlecruiser HMS Hood. This episode is especially poignant for my family as my second cousin was a crewmember on board at the time.



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