Advice needed please (NO Spriors please) (Full Version)

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marky -> Advice needed please (NO Spriors please) (5/30/2009 8:25:48 PM)

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ok. so Spriors bogged down at Changsha where my troops sit behind level 9 forts.

so now hes going around the flanks and using the ZOC.

even though its not a tiny fragment, hes essentially using 10000 men to cut off 220,000. and with the ZOC they wont be able to move soon and get destroyed. in relative terms of size 10000 IS a fragment when compared to a 220000 man army.


advice please?

send reinforcements to the flanks and hope they get there?

or fall back and abandon the Heavy Industry and a base with 50000 supplies and level 9 forts?

or do i have a legit complaint regarding house rules?

i am of course aware that this is a wargame but when the programming of the game allows for 20000 men to cutoff an army of 220000 i honestly think its BS.

it is stock game 1.806

[image]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/mrky84/Sprior%20Game/ChinaFront.png[/image]




herwin -> RE: Advice needed please (NO Spriors please) (5/30/2009 8:44:21 PM)

You've run into one of the areas where the stock game engine goes off the tracks. AE will be better in this area; however you should keep it in mind when discussing house rules.



Japan -> RE: Advice needed please (NO Spriors please) (5/30/2009 8:46:18 PM)

Well, 20 000 can cut the supplies of 200 000... Remember the 31 000 British who cut off and eventually encircled the 300 000 Italians in Afrika ? That Italien Army then Surrendered.

So, nothing to complain on there IMHO.

If I was you, I would just send 50 000 of your men into that Hex and force him to retreat.


Why did you let him enter that hex in the first please btw ? Its your Flank, it must Always be defended.



tocaff -> RE: Advice needed please (NO Spriors please) (5/30/2009 9:03:38 PM)

Nothing to complain about as a 10K force is not a fragment by any stretch of the imagination.  Always keep an eye to your flanks.  Can a relief force open the road?  Can you redeploy some of your defenders?



Barb -> RE: Advice needed please (NO Spriors please) (5/30/2009 9:11:05 PM)

1. Go after southern units, get to their hex ASAP to stop their movement (preferably from Hengchow) -move in and bombard event with division, she will be probably mauled, but will reset his movement.

2. Leave enough man to defend against northern pincer behind Changsha - his units have to ford a river so they will shock attack (But I am not absolutely sure on this, better to look on hexsides) - immediately counterattack to force them away.

Another hint: recon/bomb them to see what animals they are. Also what are the units on roads to Wuhan and Nanchang? Northern pincer could be his own wing protection and the Southern one the encircling arm.

This is what I should do based on your intelligence, but I will probably have more "intelligence" into his units to know what he was doing...



floydg -> RE: Advice needed please (NO Spriors please) (5/30/2009 9:29:29 PM)

Agree with Barb on all points.

Most of my losses in China were due to being outflanked. Part of the game, so better to not let it happen. But even cut off, I think with 50K supply, you should last a while. Unless he starts bombing your airbase and racking up airbase supply hits. Another route to my downfall... [:(]



ny59giants -> RE: Advice needed please (NO Spriors please) (5/30/2009 9:52:53 PM)

Add in hitting them with your LB to increase fatigue and disruption. This will also slow him down and make his supply situation worse than it already is. Moving off road is really hard on his supply situation. Remember to use all those Allies C-47 to keep any forces you send out supplied.



marky -> RE: Advice needed please (NO Spriors please) (5/30/2009 11:04:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Japan

Well, 20 000 can cut the supplies of 200 000... Remember the 31 000 British who cut off and eventually encircled the 300 000 Italians in Afrika ? That Italien Army then Surrendered.

So, nothing to complain on there IMHO.

If I was you, I would just send 50 000 of your men into that Hex and force him to retreat.


Why did you let him enter that hex in the first please btw ? Its your Flank, it must Always be defended.



true enough. [:D]



marky -> RE: Advice needed please (NO Spriors please) (5/31/2009 8:15:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

You've run into one of the areas where the stock game engine goes off the tracks. AE will be better in this area; however you should keep it in mind when discussing house rules.


thats the problem. ive never gotten so far into the game to really have anything happen in China [&:]



marky -> RE: Advice needed please (NO Spriors please) (6/3/2009 4:16:36 AM)

well loaded next turn and there are now 3 IJA units due east of Hengchow. looks like this is a pincer move to take both.

advice?

looks like i may have to retreat



marky -> RE: Advice needed please (NO Spriors please) (6/3/2009 6:21:36 AM)

[image]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/mrky84/Sprior%20Game/ChinaFrontSituation.png[/image]



Japan -> RE: Advice needed please (NO Spriors please) (6/3/2009 1:56:28 PM)

Your enemy have done a Tactical Mistake, he has moved the bulk of his force directly towards your City, instead of focusing on the Flanks. This mistake reminds about the one Germany did at Stalingrad.

If I was you, I would absolutely not Retreat, this is an opportunity for you. (It will be in 2 months or so).

Move in a strong force in behind Changcha, so that if he enters that Hex you have more then enough strength to force him out from it.
See this as an excellent opportunity to pin down large parts of the Japanese Army in China, and have a STRONG force behind the City, you MUST NOT allow him to Cut you Off.
Move some force out from the City itself if you must, but do not let him Cut you off.

So, hold the road to Changcha open by moving a large force to the hex behind the city, If he enters that hex you Shock Attack to force him out. You need enough strength to be able to force 1800 AV out. Of course you need to use Shock Attack to do so, as he can not be allowd to enter behind your city, and if he do then Shock Attack him out.

Then you wait...


He will then realize, and eventually start to re-distribute his force so that he gets a large enough force in behind your City, and to do this he need to move some of those 22 Units out and around the Flanks. When he starts to do this (in 1 +/- month) then you can do 1 of to things A) Shock Attack in City, and Create a Counter Encircle of his Flank Western Flank, or
B) Retreat from the City or C) Hope that you can hold the Hex Behind the City.

I'm Convinsed that if you plan for it now, then I think you can manage alternative A), after all it will take him a good month to realize, as he haven't experienced your plan jet, and from he has realized until he has moved the troops it will go 14 days (or more), so Assume you have 50 Days, start preparing for it now, and in 50 days you will be Victorious.


After all, he has to move the force, if he don't then he will never be able to complete the Encirclement as you will be there on that road when he comes every time...

Use that knowledge to your Advantage.



I would actually go as far as Surgesting that you send 2 entire Army Corps from your Central Reserve to that Road Crossing if you have to.
Hold the Road Crossing and you controll the Situation, you will then take the Initiative from him as he then has to start to react to what you are doing.















niceguy2005 -> RE: Advice needed please (NO Spriors please) (6/3/2009 3:36:48 PM)

Fight it out for Changsa.  Barb is right, get units into those flanking positions; use LBA to slow enemy advance if you have it...the SB-2s won't get the job done. 

Also, prepare your fall back position.  I would probably fight to the death in Changsa, as with level 9 forts the siege could be long. 



AirGriff -> RE: Advice needed please (NO Spriors please) (6/3/2009 3:43:11 PM)

Keep a few light units handy in your rear areas to fend off para drops. LGOPP's are a royal pain.



Barb -> RE: Advice needed please (NO Spriors please) (6/3/2009 10:05:46 PM)

I have still nothing to add except: "WHAT THE HELL ARE THOSE UNITS? Base forces? Construction battalions? Mongol cavalry? Artillery regiments? Or are they first line, combat experienced fully equipped divisions?"

You certainly need to know that [8|]



JeffroK -> RE: Advice needed please (NO Spriors please) (6/7/2009 11:46:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

I have still nothing to add except: "WHAT THE HELL ARE THOSE UNITS? Base forces? Construction battalions? Mongol cavalry? Artillery regiments? Or are they first line, combat experienced fully equipped divisions?"

You certainly need to know that [8|]



And with the 22 japanese units in Changsha you should be able to do a bombard recce, if they are highly experienced Divs & IMB you are in trouble. I would assume your Chinese are at about 40-50 exp.

From the map, you appear to have covered your supply lines, what with? A decent combat force or a rabble. Hengchow & Kwelin are covering the South, if you have a spare unit or two how about a move from Kwelin onto the Highway and cut supply by road and make it go through the mountains.

Create a threat somewhere that the japanese have to react to.

If such a concentration is in China, where else can you create a threat.

(PS. Airlift even a small British Unit in, mess with his mind!!)



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