Mortar (Full Version)

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samarobriva -> Mortar (5/31/2009 6:57:01 PM)

The mortar team effect is very accurate especially against guns. One or two rounds and you have a direct hit.

It wasn't so accurate with CCV.



Pzt_Serk -> RE: Mortar (5/31/2009 8:47:38 PM)

[sarcasm mode on/]Do you see open top APC or ATG in modern armies? But do you notice how they still use mortar today? There got to be a reason why they retired those from service but kept the mortar...

There are reports of North Korea developping a new mortar type weapon under disguise of irrelevant nuclear test...now THAT is scary!![ /sarcasm mode off]



samarobriva -> RE: Mortar (5/31/2009 9:25:36 PM)

[:D][:D][:D][:D] I wish units were able to be so effective. They receive very accurate informations and they don't need to adjust their fire.
[/sarcasm mode on] We are still waiting on those so famous weapons of Mass destruction in Irak[/sarcasm mode off]



Tomcat -> RE: Mortar (6/1/2009 5:56:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: samarobriva

We are still waiting on those so famous weapons of Mass destruction in Irak


Do you mean the gas Saddam used on the Kurds and the Iranians?



dogancan -> RE: Mortar (6/1/2009 7:40:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomcat


quote:

ORIGINAL: samarobriva

We are still waiting on those so famous weapons of Mass destruction in Irak


Do you mean the gas Saddam used on the Kurds and the Iranians?


I know, no politics here. But just want to remind that offical US argument for its actions in 2000s against iraq was not those old chemical weapons of saddam. Powell made a presentation in UN and 'proved' that saddam has developedmass-destruction weapons capable of threatening world peace, and, about to develop nuclear weapons as well. Just a reminder of facts...



samarobriva -> RE: Mortar (6/1/2009 8:04:37 PM)

To help you to understand sarcasm I recommend that you read this very valuable book Propaganda by Edward Bernays. It's rather
cheap $9.95 and you can read the first pages.

But the question was on mortar efficiency ! What is your opinion ?



Tomcat -> RE: Mortar (6/1/2009 11:27:53 PM)

The mortar efficiency is strange. They are very lethal against tank destroyers and anti-tank guns, but so far I have never seen a mortar be able to destroy another mortar. That seems incorrect.

Propaganda is also a very strange thing. It has been said that if a lie is repeated often enough people will believe it. Was Sadam peaceful and minding his own business, or was he really working on the weapons that would allow him to threaten other countries, such as Israel, more effectively? Which is the lie? It would seem that the history of his actions should answer that question.



loyalcitizen -> RE: Mortar (6/2/2009 1:58:53 AM)

I reduced the accuracy of all mortars from 398 to 50. I had it down to 10 Accuracy at one point, but that was too random. At 50 Accuracy, if I hold a silver dollar up to the screen, they all still land within. At 398, I could hold up a quarter and never see a round outside the circle. I also reduced the HE power by half, so those over-accurate first rounds (the first round always does the most damage as the enemy is unawares) doesn't kill 3 guys with one shell.



Senior Drill -> RE: Mortar (6/2/2009 3:38:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: loyalcitizen

I reduced the accuracy of all mortars from 398 to 50. I had it down to 10 Accuracy at one point, but that was too random. At 50 Accuracy, if I hold a silver dollar up to the screen, they all still land within. At 398, I could hold up a quarter and never see a round outside the circle. I also reduced the HE power by half, so those over-accurate first rounds (the first round always does the most damage as the enemy is unawares) doesn't kill 3 guys with one shell.


From politics sideshows in the thread to economics sideshows! LC, I ain't seen nor had a silver dollar in umpteen decades. How big a circle is that, on what size monitor, running at what resolution? Would you please redefine the scale of the impact area?



DesertedFox -> RE: Mortar (6/2/2009 10:21:54 AM)

Okay I do not have my sarcasm hat on, BUT!

There have been at least 5 people who have raised concerns over the accuracy of mortars in TLD and the CC4 rerelease.  I have only seen one person that I can recall, that would be 'Mr Zerk' above, hotly defend this absurd accuracy.

IMHO, a definitave link between there being mortars today and no OT Vehicles and ATG's is just as absurb.   I am not big into modern weaponry, so please correct me if I am wrong, but are not the hand held AT weapons of today down right leathal, negating the use of ATGs?

Mark



Pzt_Serk -> RE: Mortar (6/2/2009 2:35:33 PM)

Looks like you really don't have your sarcasm hat....As I'm not defending the mortar at all. I'm just reusing, with somme addition, the argument presented by some developper in another thread regarding mortar. I invite you to browse the War section and look for all the thread on mortar and you will quickly see my stance on the issue. Personnally I've stop playing War and TLD until some mods are out.

Regarding the absence of ATG today. I bet its due to the increasinz size of the gune, making them less mobile and therefor useless (Germany started WWII with 37mm Pak and ended it with 88mm PaK 43. I would advise against towing and hiding a 128mm atg all the while they develop small hand held weapon just as effective and probably cheaper.

But for the open top APC, I'd bet 1 million $ its due to mortar (instead of proximity-fuse artillery or everything else)Ok can't get rid of sarcasm easily can I?



samarobriva -> RE: Mortar (6/2/2009 7:56:48 PM)

At CCS Dima has done  something of interst with his Total Realism Mod for the Gold Juno Sword Mod.



tigercub -> RE: Mortar (6/6/2009 2:23:31 AM)

Mortars super weapons its a complete JOKE!!!



loyalcitizen -> RE: Mortar (6/6/2009 10:48:25 AM)


Heh, ok. I play at 1680 x 1050 res on a 22" monitor. If you hold a can of Coke so the bottom is against the screen, that is the size of a silver dollar.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Senior Drill


quote:

ORIGINAL: loyalcitizen

I reduced the accuracy of all mortars from 398 to 50. I had it down to 10 Accuracy at one point, but that was too random. At 50 Accuracy, if I hold a silver dollar up to the screen, they all still land within. At 398, I could hold up a quarter and never see a round outside the circle. I also reduced the HE power by half, so those over-accurate first rounds (the first round always does the most damage as the enemy is unawares) doesn't kill 3 guys with one shell.


From politics sideshows in the thread to economics sideshows! LC, I ain't seen nor had a silver dollar in umpteen decades. How big a circle is that, on what size monitor, running at what resolution? Would you please redefine the scale of the impact area?





berndn -> RE: Mortar (6/6/2009 11:14:26 AM)

While I agree that the mortar is a gun killer at the beaches it's more or less useless. I understand part of it because it's hitting sand but I would think that the effect would be (in relation to the high gun ratio) a bit better. Mortar rounds fired to troops on the beaches might slow them down but that's it for me.
I'm no real historican or do I have seen this weapon in reality. I know only the openning sequences of 'Saving private Ryan' and it for sure seem to do a lot more damage on sand or is it only hollywood ?

Sorry for me unqualified question :)



tigercub -> RE: Mortar (8/18/2009 2:36:49 AM)

Fix the mortar! complete over kill.(there is a gun quick bomb it with my super weapon 2 shots later nasty bad guy is dead)

Tiger! 




DasHoff -> RE: Mortar (8/18/2009 11:28:47 AM)

yeah theres basically no point to AT guns, unless u use a light one which can fit in a house. its so fail. do mortars take 2 seconds to adjust their trajectory and swap targets IRL? because u can be shooting something at one side of the map, then instantly fire at some guys running in the open on the other side of the map



Rift -> RE: Mortar (8/18/2009 1:49:59 PM)

As a result of the excessive accuracy of the mortars, I don't use ATG that can't be placed in buildings, which is a shame coz the 7.5cm Pak can be a great gun. Also it means that Marders, Pumas, etc are fairly useless, a couple of shots and they cook up nicely!! Very frustrating!



DasHoff -> RE: Mortar (8/18/2009 10:11:18 PM)

it makes the game extremely unbalanced. its the end of day 1 in my h2h and i have 95% of the map, mostly because the guns are so useless that my tanks can clear up everything. all the beaches were a complete joke. i thought omaha was wave upon wave of american infantry launching off the boat getting slaughtered, not just a bunch of tanks landing straight up and easily clearing out the bunkers



Andrew Williams -> RE: Mortar (8/18/2009 10:23:48 PM)

Did tanks land at Omaha?



Pzt_Serk -> RE: Mortar (8/19/2009 1:58:59 AM)

Yes they did. From Wikipedia (yes I know its not the most reliable source but I'm not writing a thesis on the subject)

quote:


Tank landings

Because sea conditions were too rough, the decision was made for the 116th RCT to carry the DD tanks of the 743rd Battalion all the way to the beach. Coming in opposite the heavily defended Vierville draw, company B of the 743rd tank battalion lost all but one of its officers, and half of its tanks. However, the other two companies landed to the left of B/743 without initial loss. On the 16th RCT front, the two DD tanks that had survived the swim ashore were joined by three others that were landed directly onto the beach because of their LCT's damaged ramp. The remaining tank company managed to land 14 of its 16 tanks (although three of these were quickly knocked out).[22][23]



Andrew Williams -> RE: Mortar (8/19/2009 3:32:02 AM)

sorry... I meant with the first landing wave.

i know a lot floundered after disembarking... and i know tanks made it ashore... but were they on time to lead the assault?



DasHoff -> RE: Mortar (8/19/2009 7:24:56 AM)

in the CC beach maps, i always find its my tanks which end up clearing out everything and winning the day. the whole key to the map is finding the couple of AT guns and knocking them out, after that its a cake walk. i wanted it to be like saving private ryan, dammit!



tigercub -> RE: Mortar (12/4/2009 12:32:14 PM)

did they fix the mortar?

Tiger!



RD Oddball -> RE: Mortar (12/4/2009 5:03:55 PM)

It was adjusted to take into account the feedback you guys gave. Fixed is a subjective term if it's not making the game crash or wildly inaccurate from a historical perspective.[;)]



kojusoki1 -> RE: Mortar (12/6/2009 1:03:34 PM)

We are playing and moding TLD with Will. We are testing the newest version so once its done we will post it on the forum, so you can take a look. We also find mortars to powerfull and AT guns to use less.
I did a simply thing:
i changed ranges of the mortar what means that up to 180m its fairly accurate but later...well..more then 180m it is long range and its quite difficult to kill AT gun in less then 10 shots. Also i placed some top armour for AT guns and... increased "hide"  of the guns.
Now, AT guns are really really effective. And mortars, deployed properly - also.

We did the same thing with shrecks, as they were the main german weapon. Its now 150m range, but to be honest, you can be sure destroying aby tank up to 120m More, it becomes less accurate.

For some of you those ranges can be too short, but i think in terms of gameplay and the size of a map, it is OK. Before that changes, that was a game: "To find a schreck". Now, it is again close combat and shrecks are no longer "kings of the field".

Those differences in Long/medium ranges are in my opinion best in ballancing gameplay.
As one of you suggested - its fairly strange mortar could kill a gun in 2 shots, while you cannot kill a single member of mortar team with 20 rounds:)



RD Oddball -> RE: Mortar (12/6/2009 3:24:51 PM)

Nice!



tigercub -> RE: Mortar (12/7/2009 3:43:13 AM)

Wildly inaccurate from a historical would be what we had as a X Red-Devil.

But it is nice to see a change.

Tiger!



Doggie -> RE: Mortar (12/7/2009 5:51:24 AM)

Open topped vehicles were not discontinued because crews were afraid of mortars.[8|] Artillerymen learned to fire what are called "airbursts". 105mm shells explode at 50 or 100 meters and rain shrapel down on unprotected infanty in open topped vehicles.

I have seen plumbers at work, and they can drop a shell on a picnic table at 300 yards providing they can see it. Hitting a moving target like a tank destroyer from directions given by some squad leader on a field phone would be all but impossible. Trying to lead a moving target that they could see would also be a difficult proposition. It aint like shooting ducks. A mortar round spends more time on it's way to the target than birdshot. Another problem is a field mortar teams limited ammuntion. Unless they got their tube set up in a half track, they probably don't have more than half a dozen rounds.

The same would apply to anti tank guns. If the mortar crew can see an anti tank gun, they could make short work of it. Firing blind from several hundred yards in the rear should take a few spotting rounds.



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