Keep Running Out of OIL! (Full Version)

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Anthropoid -> Keep Running Out of OIL! (6/1/2009 7:55:38 PM)

I played on game up to about mid 1943 as Axis on easiest difficulty, and I took Moscow, but had _barely_ manged to capture only two or tree additional oil fields by going through through Turkey to Iraq, and through Kerch to the ones close to the Black Sea. The bunch further east were still eluding me and I was running out of oil long before each turn was over.

Started up another game on moderate Axis advantage (wow, quite a bit harder too) and tried going through Egypt and Palestine. Now granted, I perhaps wasted my time capturing all the way to Casablanca and Gibraltar, but this time I was running out of oil even before I got to Iraqi oil fields or had liberated Sevastopol.

So this raises a lot of questions for me, most notably: is that amount of oil reserve, and replacement rate from Rumanian and synthetic production really realistic relative to game representation of force size? I don't doubt it is, but it is surprising how strategically limited the Germans really were if it is realistic.

Second: how many tanks, fighters, bombers, subs and Med ships are guys running who manage to get to that oil and capture it?

ADDIT: found this online PDF which is a report showing Axis petroleum product estimates for 1943

http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/Tom%20Reels/Linked/B1870/B1870-0517-0541%20Item%208C.pdf



Mike Parker -> RE: Keep Running Out of OIL! (6/1/2009 11:07:57 PM)

I find that I limit myself to as few Armoured Corp as I think I can get away with.  You really need the air but you cannot run lots of Oil Units till the USSR falls.  If you can an effort to secure the Iraqi oilfields is of great benefit, then the persian ones right after.  if you can then push through to the southern caucus' oil you should be fine provided you don't go nuts with armour.

For the Axis there is a HUGE balancing act between Oil and Manpower.  If your main land forces are too much infantry you will end up having alot of manpower issues, if they are too much mechanized you will end up with oil problems.  Motorized Corp are an alternative but I tend to find while they use much less oil, they are not any hardier than infanty and hence suck up Manpower.



Anthropoid -> RE: Keep Running Out of OIL! (6/2/2009 12:16:59 AM)

I think I have 7 or maybe 8 armored Corps (counting the Italian one) in this game. I guess I need to reduce to about 4 or 5?



joerock22 -> RE: Keep Running Out of OIL! (6/2/2009 4:05:00 AM)

It is challenging, but you can keep 8-10 armour and 6-8 air units (or vice versa) on the eastern front for the entire war without running out of oil, even without the Iraqi oil fields. The key is to make every oil-burning move count for something. Don't attack with an armour or air unit unless you plan on following up and killing it or accomplishing some strategic objective. Try to avoid useless attacks that won't make a difference. It's ok to leave a unit completely inactive; it will build effectiveness faster that way. Not moving at all during the Russian winters is a great way to save up a stockpile of oil for a spring offensive. Always use railroad moves instead of allowing mechanized units to move on their own, wherever possible.
It is important to conserve oil immediately upon starting the game. Every drop you spend in 1939-1940 is one you won't have later in the war when you really need it. So the same above rules apply to the campaigns in Poland, France, England, Africa, and all the other operational theatres. Hope this helps.



Anthropoid -> RE: Keep Running Out of OIL! (6/2/2009 12:41:06 PM)

Thanks Joe! Just knowing that it is 'possible' with that many, i.e., enough to get the job done, is encouraging/clarifying.

That is the beauty of an elegantly designed game like this: superficially it seems so simple, but there is a great deal of subtlety and each small action must fit into the larger stratetic network in order to achieve victory. That is definitely what was so appealing about the old strategy and tactics board games and it is so rare with computer games these days, which tend to be set up either to (a) overload with historical details or (b) allow players a cartoonish degree of alternate historicity.



Mike Parker -> RE: Keep Running Out of OIL! (6/2/2009 1:37:32 PM)

Without the Iraqi fields 8-10 Armour and 6-8 Air are going to spend the majority of their life doing nothing.  They will make excellent defensive units, but in '41 and '42 you need units you can use.  Your already going to be using probably 5-6 Oil a turn on Naval moves.  If you want to have success in Africa you will need Air and fast movers in Libya.  Even with the Iraqi (and Persian Oil) you won't be able to move 8-10 Armour and 6-8 Air, but you could have those forces and move/attack with them judiciously.

Before you get the Iraqi oil I would try for 3-4 German Armour and 4 Air.  I also tend to have 6-7 subs at this time that stay busy.  The Italian Armoured Corp and a pair of Air along with 1 or 2 Oil spent in Naval each turn.  Once you have the Iraqi Oil you can expand to the numbers above (I would prefer though 6 Armour 8 Air for Germany and perhaps a 3rd Air for italy).

Spending PP on 8-10 Armour and 6-8 Air is problematical when you haven't the oil to run them.  Assuming your teching your armour 8-10 of them would use 32-40 oil a turn, 6-8 Air is 18-24 throw in another 12 for Motorized Subs and the occasional surface naval move and that is 76 Oil.  What you can really afford to spend consistently is more like 40 Oil.

All of the Oil saving techniques given are great, one more I would suggest is especially when moving Armour, overuse rail capacity to move them when you can.  Given the choice of (I think 7) 7 PP or 4 Oil for an Armour, believe me you want the Oil.  if I could spend 70pp for 10 Oil every turn I would do that more turns than not.



Anthropoid -> RE: Keep Running Out of OIL! (6/2/2009 2:40:05 PM)

Third Reich on a budget [:D] Never realized it was such a close shave, but fascinating to learn.

So I'm gathering that Infantry labs and more Corps combined with more effectively concentrated combined arms is what I need to focus.

I find the subs are pretty much worthless early in the game, though with a couple of upgrades they are very powerful. You say you are running 6 or 7 subs by late 1941? I'm guessing 2 Naval labs to make that worth while?



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